Battle of the Emperors!

Originally posted by carthage
I've never hyped Kun he is perfectly capable of being beaten by scores of folk. Lol. His feats off nexus are simply better than Vitiate.

2nd most powerful sith lord, ring a bell?

And I'm not talking about just Vitiate. There are numerous other characters that you continue to lowball.

Originally posted by carthage
I dismiss his accolades because they all occur with prep or on a nexus. There is no logical reason to believe he is capable of doing the same things to other users off nexus, seeing as he sucks majorly in combat.

This makes no sense. If there are statements calling him "the most powerful force user who has ever existed," as well as, "A mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side," what do they have to do with a nexus?

Obviously he isn't the 2nd most powerful, lol. Feats should tell you that much, he has done nothing that puts him close to Palpatine, Plagueis, and Caedus.

This makes no sense. If there are statements calling him "the most powerful force user who has ever existed," as well as, "A mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side," what do they have to do with a nexus?

It makes perfect sense considering how useless he was in combat, how all of his showings are under circumstances that aid him and magnify his power, and how his feats off nexus are either pathetic or pale in comparison to other Sith lords 👆

Originally posted by carthage
Palpatine defeated his era's best, Vitiate didn't.

The Strike Team doesn't count?

1. I'm merely stating that you've asserted such things before. Remember SWF?

2. It's.....pathetic to easily overwhelm four of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy? Off nexus, mind you.

Braga has feats that put him on par with Tiin, Kolar, and Fisto or even other people Palpatine has beaten? Lol.

LeGenD has a habit of lowballing characters from other eras, and overhyping characters he prefers, as well as making outrageous claims, such as Vitiate being on par with the ones of Mortis.

Not to mention he consistently and viciously insults others who do not agree with him. So, no, my post about him was not uncalled for.

Most of the older members of this forum do not take him seriously, and I see that some of the newer ones are starting not to as well.

Even in the TOR forums, where he was respected the most, many of the members there are starting to grow tired of his ways. When posters make strong cases as to why other characters are greater than Vitiate or Revan, LeGenD accuses them of labeling such characters as being invincible or untouchable.

Really, if you're not fully aware of my reasons of making such statements about a certain poster, then your input is what's uncalled for.

Originally posted by carthage
Braga has feats that put him on par with Tiin, Kolar, and Fisto or even other people Palpatine has beaten? Lol.

Yes.

But that's not what I meant. The strike team was made up of the best of the Jedi, and Vitiate shitstomped them. I mean, Sidious didn't even win that fight, Vitiate did.

The PT strike team is way more powerful than their counterparts. Braga is powerful and on the same level with Kit and the others, but Leeha and Warren are fodder. And midgame HoT isn't close to Mace.

Well just imagine Mace's vaapad against someone like Vitiate. 😉

Originally posted by Lord Stark
The PT strike team is way more powerful than their counterparts. Braga is powerful and on the same level with Kit and the others, but Leeha and Warren are fodder. And midgame HoT isn't close to Mace.

"Way" more powerful? No. Braga is superior to Kit. Fisto could never fight a Sith Lord for 3 days straight or actually challenge end-game HoT. Midgame HoT had literally just defeated Scourge, who's damn well comparable to Mace. Even Warren used to be the greatest Jedi fighter, and though diminished he should still compare to Tiin or Kolar.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well just imagine Mace's vaapad against someone like Vitiate. 😉

I'm imagining him getting mindraped.

Vitiate is a considerable Force practitioner under any circumstances, but carthage's point that almost all of Vitiate's showings, feats and victories of significance have been with the aid of external power, preparation, ritual or a combination of the three, is one to consider, regardless of where one might place him on a power spectrum.

Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]"Way" more powerful? No. Braga is superior to Kit. Fisto could never fight a Sith Lord for 3 days straight or actually challenge end-game HoT. Midgame HoT had literally just defeated Scourge, who's damn well comparable to Mace. Even Warren used to be the greatest Jedi fighter, and though diminished he should still compare to Tiin or Kolar.

Braga is superior to Kit, but not by any massive margin, he's roughly still below Kenobi imo. Scourge is far from Mace. HoT by this point is at best Kenobi level. And nope Warren and Leha would both lose to Tiin and definitely lose to Kolar. As soon as Kolar finishes with Lela or Warren, he will then help any of his teammates demolish their opposition.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Those statements have greater implications since they have been made in an encyclopedic medium after introduction of some immensely strong Force-users such as Abeloth, Soa and The Ones to the mythos. It is understood that Sith Emperor co-existed with all of these Force-users and still BioWare promoted the former in such a way. Ponder over this.

Palpatine was originally imagined as the most powerful practitioner of the dark prior to introduction to any of the aforementioned super-strong Force-users. It now remains to be seen that how he fits in the [B]re-imagined world of Star Wars. So yes, Palpatine's position requires re-evaluation. Even if a source comes up suggesting that Palpatine have been strongest practitioner of the dark side or Sith, this still doesn't resolves the debate because it is not necessary that BioWare or some others take this declaration at face value. Some authors have the tendency to wank Palpatine irrespective of other developments in the mythos (Daniel Wallace is one such author) and no official consensus exists on these matters. Eventually this comes down to the perception of the fans as well.

In the nutshell, these matters aren't so black and white. [/B]

It's understood now, but these Force users weren't "discovered" until The Clone Wars and beyond. By the time of TOR, no one really knew of their existence. I read the TOR encyclopedia, and I never came across a passage that listed Vitiate as more powerful than Sidious, Plagueis, or anyone else from beyond the TOR timeline. Why? Because it hasn't happened yet. Again, you're looking at the source's publication date, rather than the in-universe timeline. if you want to point to its encyclopedic nature, fine, but the New Essential Chronology is also an encyclopedic source, and it marks Sidious as more powerful, from a more recent time in galactic history.

As far as Abeloth and the Ones, That's not really a fair argument, seeing as neither one of them (while being powerful Force entities) are Sith Lords. I never said Palpatine was the most powerful Force user, just the most powerful Sith Lord. As far as the Son goes, using the dark side of the Force does not make you Sith. And Abeloth gave Luke Skywalker fits, so I wouldn't dare claim Palpatine was stronger.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Braga is superior to Kit, but not by any massive margin, he's roughly still below Kenobi imo. Scourge is far from Mace. HoT by this point is at best Kenobi level. And nope Warren and Leha would both lose to Tiin and definitely lose to Kolar. As soon as Kolar finishes with Lela or Warren, he will then help any of his teammates demolish their opposition.

Again I point out that theres no way Kenobi's replicating Braga's feats.

How is Scourge "far" from Mace? I don't recall Mace casually choking out a dozen Sith or being so powerful the Council shits its pants over him or killing over a thousand powerful opponents.

The HoT would defeat Kenobi even at that point.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Those statements have greater implications since they have been made in an encyclopedic medium after introduction of some immensely strong Force-users such as Abeloth, Soa and The Ones to the mythos. It is understood that Sith Emperor co-existed with all of these Force-users and still BioWare promoted the former in such a way. Ponder over this.

Palpatine was originally imagined as the most powerful practitioner of the dark prior to introduction to any of the aforementioned super-strong Force-users. It now remains to be seen that how he fits in the [B]re-imagined world of Star Wars. So yes, Palpatine's position requires re-evaluation. Even if a source comes up suggesting that Palpatine have been strongest practitioner of the dark side or Sith, this still doesn't resolves the debate because it is not necessary that BioWare or some others take this declaration at face value[B]. Some authors have the tendency to wank Palpatine irrespective of other developments in the mythos (Daniel Wallace is one such author) and no official consensus exists on these matters. Eventually this comes down to the perception of the fans as well.

In the nutshell, these matters aren't so black and white.

Also, your comment about sources doesn't make sense. You use the TOR Encyclopedia to reinforce your argument, then turn around and say even if a source reinforces Palpatine's status, it doesn't matter, because Bioware doesn't have to abide by it? Well, since Bioware is only responsible for the TOR timeline, why should we use TOR related sources to refute established information about charcaters that lived 3600 years later?

Please understand, I'm in no way trying to attack you personally or anything like that. Rather, I'm just trying to understand your view.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Again I point out that theres no way Kenobi's replicating Braga's feats.

Kenobi defeating two Sith at once is more impressive than dueling some featless dude for 3 days. As is defeating Skywalker on Mustafar.

How is Scourge "far" from Mace? I don't recall Mace casually choking out a dozen Sith or being so powerful the Council shits its pants over him or killing over a thousand powerful opponents.

I recall Mace defeating someone more powerful than Scourge's master.

The HoT would defeat Kenobi even at that point.

According to what?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Kenobi defeating two Sith at once is more impressive than dueling some featless dude for 3 days. As is defeating Skywalker on Mustafar.

Disagree. Plus there were a lot of circumstances in that fight to factor in. And Skywalker was emotionally compromised and was overwhelming him through much of the duel.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I recall Mace defeating someone more powerful than Scourge's master.

Right, but in terms of Windu's own personal force ability and skill Scourge matches him just fine.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
According to what?

The Hero of Tython was the greatest TOR era Jedi even at that point. She managed to run through Vitiate's Force Storm unlike all other members of the team. And defeated Scourge.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
We all have some bias to a certain era or characters, that only comes natural to us humans. However unlike others who tend to make outrageous claims, at least he supports himself and explains why he believes such. I would take that over "[insert name here] wtfpwns /thread" any day.

From what I seen and experienced firsthand, he would only do such if you do it first. And if that is the case, it is not his fault. Nearly all of us would do the same thing, myself included.

And most of the older members have a fascination for the Prequel Era with Sidious and Friends in particular. 😉
Most of the newer ones, at least a majority, are mainly refugees from SWF who are used to the PT-wank (carthage is a great example). Not a fair example. 🙄

He can get carried away, I am not denying such. I am rather calling you out for publicly insulting/humiliating him at random, which was like I said: wasn't called for.

I have debated with LeGenD numerous times, and read lots of his work on other forums, and old posts here. I am aware of your reasons, but that is not my point. The point, like I said above, was for "publicly insulting/humiliating him at random, which was like I said: wasn't called for." You personally are not the greatest or most interesting debater either, or even contend to be one for that matter. Your sense of superiority over him, me, or other members of this *Star Wars forum* seems to portray that you are delusional and 😘.

My "sense" of superiority over you is in your head (lol), as I've never even implied to be better than you. I don't even recall ever debating with you.

Also, your anger of being trolled out of a certain forum is showing, and has absolutely nothing to do with what I said about LeGenD and his history in this forum. You really have no point. You're basically calling majority of the posters from the SWF forums PT wankers, while at the same time trying to call yourself as 'calling me out' for insulting LeGenD. 🙄

The fact that you're claiming that most of the older members here are fascinated with Sidious just goes to show how much you know about this forum. Again, your input is what's uncalled for.

You're basically calling majority of the posters from the SWF forums PT wankers

"Kolar>Malgus>Bane as duelists."

"Kit Fisto is just better than Darth Krayt."

"Obi-Wan is just better than Darth Malgus."

"Darth Maul is just better than Exar Kun"

"Saying that Malgus would beat Fisto because he is more powerful is lolworthy."

"How is Bane beating Ventress?"

"Vos>Bane."

"Admit Bane's limitations, restrictions, failure, weakness, and inferiority."

"Top Ten Most Powerful Sith Lords... 10. Savage Opress."

haermm