There were numerous sects that were more intelligent then mortals...so what? Kreia says "One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do," I guess Nihilus is a Celestial too. 😉 The fact they say "the ones" is completely irrelevant. If they said: "the ones called the Sith" doesn't mean they are referring to the group know as The Ones.
I got that reaction speed for Luke because I calculated the speed of an X-wing by applying the time-frame (Less than 5 minutes.) to them just reaching the planet and assumed Yavin and its Moon had the same distance as Earth and the Moon, then divided the distance by 5, which got the cruising speed of an X wing at 76,880 Kilometers per minute, or Mach 3,765. Luke turned off his targeting cimputer and used the Force to make the shot, meaning his reactions had to be keeping up with the speed of his X-wing. And this Luke barely tapped into the Force. Sidious's lightning he couldn't even react to and just got electrified.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Ones are basically the next step in the evolutionary chain from Celestials. Seeing as Vitiate hasn't even reached Celestial level, I don't think it's appropriate to compare him to the One's.
The Ones seemingly achieved corporeal immortality though it baffles me that how exactly was The Father in decline.
Emperor Vitiate also achieved corporeal immortality but he fell in a war; Emperor Vitiate orchestrated an extremely dangerous and devastating ritual to achieve a condition just like The Ones. This development actually confirms that it is not at all easy to match The Ones in capabilities, not possible for majority for sure.
Darth Plagueis also wanted to achieve corporeal immortality but his dream never came to realization, he was assassinated by his apprentice (Darth Sidious). However, Darth Plagueis is not an authority on the capabilities of Emperor Vitiate or The Ones. He makes his assessment based on what he knows about them. In-fact, Darth Plagueis knows very little about Emperor Vitiate; this is partly due to Emperor Vitiate being mostly shrouded in mystery in history, he was not visible on the front lines and mostly acted from his throne. And Emperor Vitiate was not fond of sharing much of his knowledge with others as well; his only known apprentice also perished at his command after rebelling against him. Furthermore, Darth Plagueis realized that dark sorcery wouldn't benefit him much because he wasn't gifted in its use. This is why Darth Plagueis sought other means to achieve his ultimate objective: attempt to achieve corporeal immortality via midichlorian manipulation.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There were numerous sects that were more intelligent then mortals...so what? Kreia says "One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do," I guess Nihilus is a Celestial too. 😉 The fact they say "the ones" is completely irrelevant. If they said: "the ones called the Sith" doesn't mean they are referring to the group know as The Ones.
This explains the legends and tales surrounding The Ones in history and Sith and Jedi being aware of the presence of these beings. Anakin & his allies didn't trace them out of sheer luck.
Also:
"I was referencing the Mortis trilogy at several points. More is likely to emerge regarding those characters..." (James Luceno)
The Father specifically said if the Son and Daughter were to ever fight outside of Mortis the very fabric of the Universe would be teared apart. There's nothing that goes against his word, and if you think he's lying or over-hyping them why would he? He has nothing to lie about his power. Vitaite on the other hand best feat was absorbing the Force from a planet, and was going to do that to the galaxy. That's nothing compared to the destruction of the Universe, and as a side-effect as well.
As far as who's more powerful, it's Sidious. Even ignoring all of his feats in DE and any other EU material, we're still left with Palpatine as the end-all be-all of Sith Lords. Why? It's quite simple: He's not solely part of Legends canon. Sure, alot of his exploits are, but he originated in the films. Plus, the creator of the entire franchise called him the most powerful. I realize the quote was made before Vitiate came along, but again: Legends canon, not Established. See, even if (and I do mean IF) Disney decides to completely rewrite GL's vision, they haven't done it yet, so we are left with what has been specified in the acknowledged universe Disney is going by (films, TCW series, upcoming novels, and certain existing ones, if I'm not mistaken). The beauty of Legends canon is anything could be pulled from there, at any time, and placed in the main universe, but it hasn't happened, yet.
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Yea, the ones can. You shouldn't undermine the gods of the force my friend
Originally posted by The Merchant
The Father specifically said if the Son and Daughter were to ever fight outside of Mortis the very fabric of the Universe would be teared apart. There's nothing that goes against his word, and if you think he's lying or over-hyping them why would he? He has nothing to lie about his power. Vitaite on the other hand best feat was absorbing the Force from a planet, and was going to do that to the galaxy. That's nothing compared to the destruction of the Universe, and as a side-effect as well.
I have nothing against The Ones but one thing that I have learned from my years of delving in the subject of Star Wars is that statements of characters should be received with caution. It is not necessary for the characters to lie and all that but they do have same flaws that we humans demonstrate in real life; characters lie, exaggerate, lack in knowledge, underestimate, manipulate (and more) much like us humans do.
I am not accusing The Father of being a liar but he might just be manipulating Anakin to do his bidding or such, he actually wanted Anakin to do his bidding. The Son also attempted to manipulate Anakin to do his bidding instead.
Best evidence of assessing the capabilities of The Ones is through Abeloth. She is in the league of The Ones and achieved her condition from the same sources of power that The Ones relied upon; Font of Power and Pool of Knowledge.
Abeloth, whilst being formidable, was able to destroy a city, influence an entire world with her powers and multi-task while combating Jedi. However, was she tearing the Universe apart?
So wouldn't it be logical to assume that The Father was trying to manipulate Anakin?
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
As far as who's more powerful, it's Sidious. Even ignoring all of his feats in DE and any other EU material, we're still left with Palpatine as the end-all be-all of Sith Lords. Why? It's quite simple: He's not solely part of Legends canon. Sure, alot of his exploits are, but he originated in the films. Plus, the creator of the entire franchise called him the most powerful. I realize the quote was made before Vitiate came along, but again: Legends canon, not Established. See, even if (and I do mean IF) Disney decides to completely rewrite GL's vision, they haven't done it yet, so we are left with what has been specified in the acknowledged universe Disney is going by (films, TCW series, upcoming novels, and certain existing ones, if I'm not mistaken). The beauty of Legends canon is anything could be pulled from there, at any time, and placed in the main universe, but it hasn't happened, yet.
And Mr. Lucas never asserted that he envisioned Sidious as the most powerful among the Sith in galactic history. It is even debatable if Emperor Vitiate is a Sith, he is a Sith only in name.
Disney may want to re-imagine the world of Star Wars with legends strategy but so far it is unclear how things would proceed in the future.
If we use movie feats we get Luke who was barely using the force reacting at speeds that was 3,756 times the speed of sound. I got this because of how fast the X-wings were moving, assumed Yavin and Yavin IV had the same distance Earth and the Moon has, then used the time-frame we're given to us in the film "Less than 5 minutes." Do note this is EXTREMELY low-balling the speeds of an X-wing, because for one that time-frame was not established when they left Yavin IV, that time-frame was said when they were already half-way crossing Yavin and were going to get to the Death Star in less than 5 minutes. In real-time they only took like seconds, maybe a minute or 2 at most. I applied the time-frame by making the X-wings JUST arrive Yavin, or crossing the distance that is like the Earth/Moon system. I then made it exactly 5 minutes since less than is vague. Finally, I divided the distance by 5. The distance is 384,400 Kilometers. This means every minute the X-wings would have to have had crossed 76,880 Kilometers. And that's just cruising speed, according to Gold Leader they need to accelerate to reach Attack Speed.
Heck, I decided to go back and re-watch the scene and literally counted the seconds it took the X-wings to travel all that pretty much went past Yavin. It was roughly around 32 seconds. This means that every second they crossed 12012 kilometers, which is Mach 35,331. That's 4% the speed of Light. And as I've said that's merely cruising speed and this is for a Luke who only can tap into the Force. Jedi Knight Luke should be much faster and can react to speeds much greater than this and the Emperor pretty much zapped him with Lightning so fast Luke couldn't do a thing about it.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
No matter how much you want it to be true, Vitiate is not and will never be One tier...
TOR sources have officially promoted Emperor Vitiate as the most powerful Force-user ever, not any fan.
Emperor Vitiate have feats and hype on level of The Ones.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You (or any fan) is not in the position to make definitive assertions like these.TOR sources have officially promoted Emperor Vitiate as the most powerful Force-user ever, not any fan.
Emperor Vitiate have feats and hype on level of The Ones.