Originally posted by KingD19
And she dodges/blocks waterbending, airbending, earthbending and firebending even though a majority of the attacks are through the air and she can't see them.
If the debate is that Katara forms an incredibly massive sphere of water rendering Toph too far away from any earth, sure.
The odd art about this lil debate is that it a all on one specific situation, where in all other areas Toph is superior and in all honestly would stop Katara before having the chance to form said Godzilla sized body of water.
The point was that Toph was rendered useless in the sea because she's blind, can't swim, and most of all is entirely disconnected from her bending source as the floor was an unknown distance below her.
If Toph starts the match on the ground and if separated isn't too far from earth, she would be able to bend her way to safety. It a unlikely that Katara could move such a mass A) before Toph strikes as that amount wouldn't be speedy, and B) at all really seeing as the only beings shown to move such a mass have been Avatars and /maybe/ Master Pakku in the last few eps. Maybe.
All that's left to take full control of Toph's blindness would be to drag her out into open ocean. This would make Katara on a single oath to victory while Toph has to only keep striking her. Given her high level of skill and accuracy.. The only people able to counter this are Air fighters. Whether that's an air bender or a highly skilled acrobatic fighter with high combat skill, like Azula. Problem again is that Katara is not an acrobatic fighter, so will be subjected to earth.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Examples? In that entire video, literally all of the scenes were her touching earth and bending it. Or metal, dummy. I didn't change my point, only simplified it because you're too stupid to realize a simple fact. I didn't argue anything about usefulness, only said even if she did manage to bend a pebble without feeling it, or being indirectly connected to it by Earth, that it wouldn't be impressive enough to merit anything. Which she didn't. She had plenty of time to feel the vibrations through the merchant, to the earth cups, to the pebble. Not that difficult, considering how her Earth sense works. She stills had to FEEL it, which shouldn't be a difficult thing to understand, when the SOLE PREMISE of her powers is that she can feel through her bending, to bend in the first place.When did I ever say she couldn't lift rocks and throw them with bending? In fact, I made a point of saying the opposite. Again, since you're too dumb to understand this, let me make it really simple. SHE NEEDS TO USE HER BENDING SIGHT TO BEND. She's even said this in the series, which is why she couldn't bend Earth in the metal cage.
You "provided" four examples of her doing exactly what I said she could. She feels Earth. She bends it. She can do nothing without feeling it, it's that simple. I mean, again, she would have been able to save herself or others MANY times had she been able to do so.
Again, SHOW ME ONE SCENE WHERE SHE IS OUT OF CONTACT WITH THE GROUND, OR SIMILAR MEDIUMS SUCH AS METAL, AND BENDS. She can't bend in air, or water. Why do you think she almost drowned in the Serpent's pass, and Suki had to save her?
GG
Exactly, she DOES need to use her bending sight to bend BUT she can still sense rocks that are not connected to her through the earth and bend them as it was shown hundreds of times in the show and proven by the videos I've posted. Arguing that is nothing short of retarded because following your "logic" - the second the boulder is off the ground she must no longer sense it but merely remembers where it is because it used to be on the ground. There's no middle ground here - she can either sense the rocks when they're not connected to her through the earth or she can't sense them. And we know for a fact that she can both sense and control them as I've proven already. And therefore sense the ground even when not standing on it. But hey, you want to argue that, feel free. Post proof like everybody else. Because right now... There's me backing up my posts with on-screen feats... Then there's you speculating and coming up with one stupid theory after another and not proving jack. The buardian of proof is on you, dummy. So go ahead, knock yourself out. But please don't give me more of that "why didn't she do this" BS speculations. Show me PROOF. Not plot-related bad decisions characters make all the time. Show me a scene where Toph TRIES to bend earth without being connected to it and FAILS. Key words TRIES (as in actually attempts to do it) and FAILS. Then you'll have a point. Until then go write fan fictions, that's where your theories belong anyway.
Her senses and bending are not connected. If she loses her senses she can still bend. Example is toph bending earth and attacking the flying bees with kataras help. She couldnt sense where they were but she could still bend earth to throw.
Toph doesnt have to be on earth to bend there just has to be earth in the area and she can bend it. Same goes for every earthbender. One of zaheers men bended earth while standing on a wooden prison in the middle of the ocean.
Bumi bended earth with just his nose while suspended in mid air. Toph bended earth while on a boat. A whole bunch of earth benders inbook 1 i think bended coal in order to take control of a fire nation ship/encampment. And again the metal police bend all the time while in the air and toph is the one who created the style, group and taught them how to bend metal
Originally posted by SamZED
What you did was make an attempt to dismiss the feat by changing the subject to its usefulness because it pretty much flushed your entire "argument" down the toilet. And now that you realized that it won't work you try to come up with more theories to cover up your own BS. You can speculate all you want about Toph sensing the rock through guy's pajamas etc the video is a definite proof that she can sense and control rocks that are in the air and are not connected to her through the earth. And JUST LIKE she sensed and controlled that pebble that was separated from her she can sense and control ground without standing on it. It's a simple logic even a third grader would understand. But not you apparently.Exactly, she DOES need to use her bending sight to bend BUT she can still sense rocks that are not connected to her through the earth and bend them as it was shown hundreds of times in the show and proven by the videos I've posted. Arguing that is nothing short of retarded because following your "logic" - the second the boulder is off the ground she must no longer sense it but merely remembers where it is because it used to be on the ground. [b]There's no middle ground here - she can either sense the rocks when they're not connected to her through the earth or she can't sense them. And we know for a fact that she can both sense and control them as I've proven already.
And therefore sense the ground even when not standing on it. But hey, you want to argue that, feel free. Post proof like everybody else. Because right now... There's me backing up my posts with on-screen feats... Then there's you speculating and coming up with one stupid theory after another and not proving jack. The buardian of proof is on you, dummy. So go ahead, knock yourself out. But please don't give me more of that "why didn't she do this" BS speculations. Show me PROOF. Not plot-related bad decisions characters make all the time. Show me a scene where Toph TRIES to bend earth without being connected to it and FAILS. Key words TRIES (as in actually attempts to do it) and FAILS. Then you'll have a point. Until then go write fan fictions, that's where your theories belong anyway. [/B]
Don't flatter(or dilute) yourself kid. I didn't change anything about my argument, other than the word I used. I changed it from feel, to sense, because you were(are) too stupid to make the connection.
The video is proof, AGAIN, of what I said Toph could do. She even specifically said she could bend it because she felt it with her bending sense. Pajama's? lol, if you're too stupid to understand how Toph's sense works, based on vibration, even when it's shown and explained it multiple times, then you don't even belong in this thread. Or maybe you'd like to explain the other examples I gave. Not to mention that the pebble leaving her sense doesn't mean jack-shit if she could originally sense it at some point. Since you're obviously really stupid, I'll say this one last time. I'M NOT SAYING SHE CAN'T BEND ROCKS THAT ARE IN THE AIR OR LIFT THEM. I'M SAYING SHE CAN'T BEND ROCKS SHE CAN'T SENSE, WHICH MEANS IF KATARA GET'S HER TRAPPED IN WATER, SHE CAN'T BEND ANYTHING OTHER THAN SOME EARTH SHE WAS STANDING ON, AND IT'S STILL USELESS BECAUSE SHE IS IN WATER WHERE SHE REALLY IS BLIND.
You obviously haven't been listening to what I've posted this entire time if that's what you think I'm saying. Learn to read.
AGAIN, ACCORDING TO THE SERIES, SHE NEEDS TO BE CURRENTLY BENDING A ROCK, OR SHE NEEDS TO FEEL IT WITH EARTH SENSE, TO BEND. You've shown not a single example of her doing something else.
Originally posted by yungz22
Her senses and bending are not connected. If she loses her senses she can still bend. Example is toph bending earth and attacking the flying bees with kataras help. She couldnt sense where they were but she could still bend earth to throw.Toph doesnt have to be on earth to bend there just has to be earth in the area and she can bend it. Same goes for every earthbender. One of zaheers men bended earth while standing on a wooden prison in the middle of the ocean.
Bumi bended earth with just his nose while suspended in mid air. Toph bended earth while on a boat. A whole bunch of earth benders inbook 1 i think bended coal in order to take control of a fire nation ship/encampment. And again the metal police bend all the time while in the air and toph is the one who created the style, group and taught them how to bend metal
Well at least SamZed is making things up, you're just completely lost. Toph doesn't need to sense what she's attacking, genius. Why do you think she can bend when she isn't fighting? lol.
Yes she does. She needs to use her Earth sense to bend. That's all there is to it. Toph isn't Bumi. Bumi isn't blind. He can bend, like any other seeing bender, without feeling shit.
Originally posted by BloodRain
The point was that Toph was rendered useless in the sea because she's blind, can't swim, and most of all is entirely disconnected from her bending source as the floor was an unknown distance below her.If Toph starts the match on the ground and if separated isn't too far from earth, she would be able to bend her way to safety. It a unlikely that Katara could move such a mass A) before Toph strikes as that amount wouldn't be speedy, and B) at all really seeing as the only beings shown to move such a mass have been Avatars and /maybe/ Master Pakku in the last few eps. Maybe.
All that's left to take full control of Toph's blindness would be to drag her out into open ocean. This would make Katara on a single oath to victory while Toph has to only keep striking her. Given her high level of skill and accuracy.. The only people able to counter this are Air fighters. Whether that's an air bender or a highly skilled acrobatic fighter with high combat skill, like Azula. Problem again is that Katara is not an acrobatic fighter, so will be subjected to earth.
No, the point, which has already been achieved, was to prove that Toph can't bend things she can't feel, and that in water or while falling, she can't use her bending sense to feel. In the entire series, she has not once bended without being able to feel what she was bending with bending sense. In fact, there have been many times she couldn't when she could have saved hers, or others lives in doing so.
Toph may be quite a bit stronger than Katara, in terms of bending prowess, but Katara knows all her weaknesses, how to exploit them, and is able to very handily due to the speed advantage of her bending.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Well at least SamZed is making things up, you're just completely lost. Toph doesn't need to sense what she's attacking, genius. Why do you think she can bend when she isn't fighting? lol.Yes she does. She needs to use her Earth sense to bend. That's all there is to it. Toph isn't Bumi. Bumi isn't blind. He can bend, like any other seeing bender, without feeling shit.
I never said toph was bumi i was showing examples that pretty much throw your arguement in the trash.
Why are you restating what i said already in my post.
Toph uses the earth sense to see not to bend. Toph's blindness is a hinderence only because she can not physically see an opponent. Her earth sense is something that eliminates that weakness. If she didnt have it shed be throwing rocks around blindly. Which weve seen her do before.
Another example the original earth benders were badger moles. They were blind but they didnt use what toph uses to sense things around them and bend.
Your just creating a rule out of pure speculation. The earth bending sense is something that toph developed but it is not exclusive to only her.
Another example lin beifong and other benders can use the earth sense. They dont need it to bend tho as shown because lin only uses it once. Her ability to see negates her need for the earth sense. Toph has bended plenty of times when her senses have been hampered or altered. She doesnt need the earth sense to bend only to see whats going on around her
What your saying makes no sense.your trying to convince everybody here that one of the top 2 most talented earth benders in the world is limited by something you created out of pure speculation and makes no sense whatsoever.
Toph is an earthbender..... What ever rules you apply to her apply to every other earthbender. Same with all the other elements each all essentially work the same way. The rule that you created was debunked by not only toph but all the other earth and metal benders weve seen in the show.
If toph cant pull a rock toward her unless having touched it before then that same rule you made up goes for every other earth bender. (Too bad its not the case)
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No, the point, which has already been achieved, was to prove that Toph can't bend things she can't feel, and that in water or while falling, she can't use her bending sense to feel. In the entire series, she has not once bended without being able to feel what she was bending with bending sense. In fact, there have been many times she couldn't when she could have saved hers, or others lives in doing so.Toph may be quite a bit stronger than Katara, in terms of bending prowess, but Katara knows all her weaknesses, how to exploit them, and is able to very handily due to the speed advantage of her bending.
"And for future notice, she seems to have gotten over the aerial targets issue somewhat. Striking the wasp with rocks and colliding her rock with a boats projectile meeting half way (contact here is through the metal boat, the gapping water then the enemy boat to sense the launch. That, or the air somewhat)."
She seems to be doing fine with that aerial issue. Also there's no way Katara's bending is faster when Toph can launch Ricks from firstly under the opponent.
I say Toph. At go Toph could have a column of stone come out of the ground and hit Katara in the chin for the k.o. or incase her body in stone. It just takes a stomp of Toph's foot to achieve. Katara would need to draw the water out of the ocean and bend it in Toph's direction. Toph wins a quick draw.
Originally posted by yungz22
They were in the middle of the ocean. The ocean floor could have been miles below her Earth was too far down for her to bend
Uh, no they weren't. They were in serpents pass, and if you recall, Toph had just previously bent Earth up from the bottom of the floor after they originally got attacked by the serpent.
Or did you forget that she was unable to perform the same feat after being dropped in water?
Originally posted by yungz22
I never said toph was bumi i was showing examples that pretty much throw your arguement in the trash.Why are you restating what i said already in my post.
Toph uses the earth sense to see not to bend. Toph's blindness is a hinderence only because she can not physically see an opponent. Her earth sense is something that eliminates that weakness. If she didnt have it shed be throwing rocks around blindly. Which weve seen her do before.
Another example the original earth benders were badger moles. They were blind but they didnt use what toph uses to sense things around them and bend.
Your just creating a rule out of pure speculation. The earth bending sense is something that toph developed but it is not exclusive to only her.
Another example lin beifong and other benders can use the earth sense. They dont need it to bend tho as shown because lin only uses it once. Her ability to see negates her need for the earth sense. Toph has bended plenty of times when her senses have been hampered or altered. She doesnt need the earth sense to bend only to see whats going on around her
lolololololol, And that would be how? You've given the same examples that I've shot down numerous times already, and somehow think you're still right.
Restating what from your last post? Toph doesn't need to sense what she's attacking, and you suggesting so is retarded, considering she wouldn't be able to attack airborne enemies at all. HOWEVER, GIVEN ALL THE EXAMPLES I'VE SHOWN, AND THE FACT THAT NOT ONCE HAS SHE BENT WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO USE HER EARTH SENSE, SHE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO FEEL THE VIBRATIONS THROUGH SOMETHING TO BEND IT. I've given more than 10 examples, and you can't provide one where she can, and I can in fact show where, had she been able to bend without using her earth sight, she could have avoided getting so close to dying NUMEROUS times. The serpent's pass was a perfect example. As was falling from the air ship. Not to mention that her Earth sense does reach for a few miles, just so you know.
Uh, have you even watched the series? Toph adapted to using Earth sense by COPYING the badger moles. They even explained that Earth benders originally learned to bend by mimicking badger moles. They were blind, and Toph learned to see the way they did, HER OWN WORDS, I can provide the episode if you need.
No, I'm creating it from evidence that you have yet to disprove, statements, and the fact that you're suggesting her to have preferred to almost die, numerous times, rather than bend without Earth sight.
TOPH IS NOT THEM. THEY ARE NOT BLIND. THEY DO NOT RELY ON EARTH SENSE, AS THEY, AND ANY OTHER SEEING BENDER, AS I HAVE SAID COUNLESS TIMES ALREADY, CAN BEND WITHOUT USING EARTH SENSE. How many times do I have to repeat this? GG
For the last time, show ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE OF HER BENDING SOMETHING THAT WASN'T AT ANY POINT IN HER SENSES. Otherwise, I'm right.