Toph vs. Katara

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So what you're saying is that because Goku can beat the shit out of Guldo, Goku can stop time by breathing?

That because Rukia can beat the shit out of Espada, she can regenerate now?

That because Pikachu can beat Squirrtel, Pikachu can shoot water now?

You're saying that she gets their abilities because she's stronger than them, which is NOT true.

Try again.(and I'm the one not making sense, smfh)

Your comparing people with unique abilities so your analogies dont work.

Earth benders have the same abilities all are potentially capable of doing the same thing its just that some have more prowess then others and in turn are then able to separate themselves from the pack. Example toph is the one who figured out metal bending and everntually taught it to other earth benders. Toph's daughter even said although only 1 out of 100 ppl learn metal bending if earthbenders changed their attitude that number would change.

Now if toph is a toph earth bender in the world and the best in the world once bumi dies then she is capable of doing anything a lower ranked earth bender can do if not way more.

Also in the most recent episode of avatar you have both of toph's daughters bending while in mid air.

Toph is the one who taught both of them how to bend

The gist of that is powerscaling.

A character is shown to be in the same stat/ability/etc range as someone with demonstrable feats, scaling suggests they can do something similar. The only fault, which is where you, Gogeta, are driving at is that Toph is different in this regard so she's an exception.

Problem is thus: she's demonstrated it too. No material the excuse chosen.. that it was only a small pebble, that he hands were close to the object, that she had a feel for it beforehand.. it all leads to this; If an Earthbender has a feel for earth around them, they have the potential to bend it, shown by Bumi, Toph, her daughter's and likely many others.

By normal powerscaling, she has no reason to not be able to do a feat Shea shown doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-5PynuEFjk

Originally posted by King Joker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-5PynuEFjk

This has already been explained pis/ human error no point in showing it we already confirmed toph cant swim

Originally posted by yungz22
This has already been explained pis/ human error no point in showing it we already confirmed toph cant swim

Just don't respond next time.

Originally posted by BloodRain
The gist of that is powerscaling.

A character is shown to be in the same stat/ability/etc range as someone with demonstrable feats, scaling suggests they can do something similar. The only fault, which is where you, Gogeta, are driving at is that Toph is different in this regard so she's an exception.

Problem is thus: she's demonstrated it too. No material the excuse chosen.. that it was only a small pebble, that he hands were close to the object, that she had a feel for it beforehand.. it all leads to this; If an Earthbender has a feel for earth around them, they have the potential to bend it, shown by Bumi, Toph, her daughter's and likely many others.

By normal powerscaling, she has no reason to not be able to do a feat Shea shown doing.

You acknowledge that it's powerscaling, but you're still using the same logic?

AGAIN, TOPH HAS NEVER BENT WITHOUT USING EARTH SENSE. Not a single time, and she has been unable to save herself or others because of that fact. The simple fact that she could have died multiple times is proof enough, along with accordance that she has never done it once.

She still felt the pebble, as was stated by Toph herself. She still used Earth sense.

Again, if she can't feel something with Earth sense, she can't bend. Show a single example where she has.

Powerscaling is just that. Scaling. She doesn't get every other Earth benders powers just because she's stronger than them. This is not Highlander.

Originally posted by yungz22
This has already been explained pis/ human error no point in showing it we already confirmed toph cant swim

Human error? How is that?

Toph not being able to swim doesn't matter at all, according to you. She could still bend the Earth around, or near her. However, SHE COULDN'T. What you're saying is that she would have rather DIED, than use her bending to do something you're saying she's able to.

This could definitely be chocked up to PIS, IF it was the only example.

This is an example, along with the airship thing, the wood cage incident, the burned foot incident, and many others.

For the last time, and I mean it. Show a SINGLE feat of Toph, bending without feeling her element with earth sense.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Human error? How is that?

Toph not being able to swim doesn't matter at all, according to you. She could still bend the Earth around, or near her. However, SHE COULDN'T. What you're saying is that she would have rather DIED, than use her bending to do something you're saying she's able to.

This could definitely be chocked up to PIS, IF it was the only example.

This is an example, along with the airship thing, the wood cage incident, the burned foot incident, and many others.

For the last time, and I mean it. Show a SINGLE feat of Toph, bending without feeling her element with earth sense.

Ppl that cant swim panic all the time in water. Panicing is one of the mainreasons people who cant swim drown

Originally posted by yungz22
Ppl that cant swim panic all the time in water. Panicing is one of the mainreasons people who cant swim drown

Alright, since you have again failed to show a reason, let alone explain anything other than the fact that you have no evidence to support your claims, I'm through with this argument, as anyone who still gives a shit enough to read this can clearly tell that you are wrong.

So, to clarify, Katara wins.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Alright, since you have again failed to show a reason, let alone explain anything other than the fact that you have no evidence to support your claims, I'm through with this argument, as anyone who still gives a shit enough to read this can clearly tell that you are wrong.

So, to clarify, Katara wins.

I gave up a long time ago with him.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Alright, since you have again failed to show a reason, let alone explain anything other than the fact that you have no evidence to support your claims, I'm through with this argument, as anyone who still gives a shit enough to read this can clearly tell that you are wrong.

So, to clarify, Katara wins.

Evidence is that toph is still human and a blind one at that. Of cour if she cant swim shes gonna panic at first if dropped in water.human error is not evidence of her losing bending power. Especially if we see a whole lot of ppl at lower bending levels performing feats that you say she cant..... Once again she is in the top two of earthbenders in the world and once bumi dies she will have become the best in the WORLD.

Also you havent shown evidence that proves what your suggesting to an absolute. Human error is another possible answer as to why she didnt do it at that moment

Originally posted by yungz22
Evidence is that toph is still human and a blind one at that. Of cour if she cant swim shes gonna panic at first if dropped in water.human error is not evidence of her losing bending power. Especially if we see a whole lot of ppl at lower bending levels performing feats that you say she cant..... Once again she is in the top two of earthbenders in the world and once bumi dies she will have become the best in the WORLD.

Also you havent shown evidence that proves what your suggesting to an absolute. Human error is another possible answer as to why she didnt do it at that moment

The flaw with that entire "human error" argument, is that it has happened several times. In different situations. Such as when Toph was crying because she was falling off an airship, knowing she would die. What you're saying is that Toph is completely useless in a life or death situation PERIOD, meaning that she would STILL fair no differently in this fight.

Since that isn't true though, the only explanation is that she can't bend without using her sense of touch to feel vibrations through rocks with a unique bending type.

This is no different from Goku being stronger than Guldo. He still can't use Guldo's abilities. Even if Goku could kill Guldo easily, Guldo can still stop time, and Goku can't. Toph is blind. She can only bend by using Earth sense. You're only argument is that it was "human error", which 1. Is BS because she does fine in life or death situations when she CAN bend, 2. Is not true, because it is a simple assumption you're baselessly making, and 3. Still doesn't disprove what I'm arguing, as it only explains a different reason as to why she can't bend.

Either way, I'm clearly beating a (brain)dead horse here, so I'm out.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
The flaw with that entire "human error" argument, is that it has happened several times. [B]In different situations. Such as when Toph was crying because she was falling off an airship, knowing she would die. What you're saying is that Toph is completely useless in a life or death situation PERIOD, meaning that she would STILL fair no differently in this fight.

Since that isn't true though, the only explanation is that she can't bend without using her sense of touch to feel vibrations through rocks with a unique bending type.

This is no different from Goku being stronger than Guldo. He still can't use Guldo's abilities. Even if Goku could kill Guldo easily, Guldo can still stop time, and Goku can't. Toph is blind. She can only bend by using Earth sense. You're only argument is that it was "human error", which 1. Is BS because she does fine in life or death situations when she CAN bend, 2. Is not true, because it is a simple assumption you're baselessly making, and 3. Still doesn't disprove what I'm arguing, as it only explains a different reason as to why she can't bend.

Either way, I'm clearly beating a (brain)dead horse here, so I'm out. [/B]

If your falling the sky miles away from the earth how is earth going to save you. Gravity is still going to kill her. TOPH is human not the hulk she cant survive great falls like that. She cant bend earth from miles away. Regardless of whether you land on rock or sand shed still die. And if you really think sand is soft enough to stop death from a fall like that next time you go to the beach take one of those parachute ride and jump out of when your in the air.

Now if katara was able to bring toph into the ocean which i highly doubt then of course she would have a higher chance win because that is where katara is at an advantage. The thing is this fight starts on land and toph is more in tune with her elemant than katara is with water. (Hence toph being the greatest earth bender in the world) and katara not even being the leader of her village.) that is why toph should win.

All that other stuff about toph losing her bending power makes no sense the only person or things that can take away bending are the moon, lion turtle and the avatar.

(Full Moon) Katara.
Without FM, Toph.

Katara.

Originally posted by chasedown
Katara isnt legendary like toph is.

Originally posted by King Joker
I think giving Toph metalbending would probably be gimping... :/

Someone earlier asked if Katara can penetrate rock. The answer is yes. In the comics (specifically The Promise - Part 3, page 36), even her water whip penetrated rock. So if she were on the ocean, where no, Toph could not see her, I'm sure Toph would go on the defense, creating rock armor or a rock wall. But Katara can penetrate both.