Originally posted by Nephthys
The text says that the power had been "buried for centuries". Remember they were on Ambria and Thon had sealed the darkside nexus away.
Which doesn't answer how Bane wasn't able to draw from the latent darkside power when Zannah was able to in spite of being a darksider 👆
Ok, here is my updated list:
Jedi
1) Luke Skywalker
2) Jacen Solo
3) Yoda
4) Kyp Durron
5) HoT
6) Barsen'thor
7) Mace Windu
8) Anakin Skywalker
9) Satele Shan
10) Galen Marek
11) Obi-Wan Kenobi
12) Kyle Katarn
Sith:
1) Darth Sidious
2) Darth Plagueis
3) Darth Caedus
4) Emperor Vitiate
5) Darth Bane
6) Exar Kun
7) Darth Vader
8) Darth Malgus
9) Tulak Hord
10) Darth Revan
11) Count Dooku
12) Darth Krayt
Originally posted by carthage
Being 'built up' isn't the same as having actual dueling feats and having beaten individuals of high caliber. Kas'sim has nothing to prove other than that he sucks badly enough to be killed by a trainee. Sorry. Feats > "authors intent" and or whatever nebulous idea you have to compensate for Kas'sim's lack of everything
And the incredibly relevant question that you have dodged, how does this same twisted logic not apply to Vodo-Siosk Baas?
Originally posted by carthage
Who cares he still was protected to 99% of their lightsaber blows, still had a comparable amp and they were still featless opponents (aside from Raskta)
And as I mentioned he still managed to outmaneuver her and throw her on her ass at one point, using an element of his fighting style he vastly improved on after losing the orbalisks.
Originally posted by carthage
[quoteBecause every opponent that has faced Bane also had a set of advantages of their own.[/b]
Originally posted by carthage
What lol? He was still supposedly more skilled by your estimation. You didn't successfully refute the idea that Bane could draw on Ambria for a nexus, and secondly even if they had an "Advantage" Bane had one that trumped them i,e a nexus or orbalisks. None of them were also ever on par with an opponent that could beat him by virtue of their own abilities either
Once again, you are saying that Bane defeating his opponents is not an impressive feat because Bane's opponents didn't defeat him. This line of logic is fallacious, as it could be used for just about any character to make them look like they suck.
For example:
Dooku defeated Obi-wan? Not impressive because Obi-wan wasn't good enough to beat Dooku.
Sidious beat Yoda? Not impressive because Yoda wasn't good enough to beat Sidious.
Kun beat Vodo? Not impressive because Vodo wasn't good enough to beat Kun.
Are you beginning to see the fallacy in this form of logic you like to use? It's ****ing horrendous, and you use it only on characters you hate because you hate them.
Originally posted by carthage
They do when he's covered in orbalisks, and relies on a nexus to kill Kas'sim 👆. Its not hard to follow without orbalisks he wasn't able to beat Zannah, because he was older, weaker, slower, etc. Its an easy line of thought to dollow
I was also referring to Bane beating the shit out of her in the sabers portion of their final fight.
Once again, your line of logic sux dick. Yet again, you are trying to say that Bane defeating his opponents is not an impressive feat because Bane's opponents didn't defeat him. This line of logic is for the hundredth ****ing time fallacious, as it could be used for just about any character to make them look like they suck.
For example:
Dooku defeated Obi-wan? Not impressive because Obi-wan wasn't good enough to beat Dooku.
Sidious beat Yoda? Not impressive because Yoda wasn't good enough to beat Sidious.
Kun beat Vodo? Not impressive because Vodo wasn't good enough to beat Kun.
Are you beginning to see the fallacy in this form of logic you like to use? It's ****ing horrendous, and you use it only on characters you hate because you hate them.
Originally posted by carthage
All of Bane's opponents were weaker than him, and he had significant amps that even trumped whatever advantage they had. This does not bode well when placing him with duelists that have fought their opponents and beaten them through their own skill, and or fought opponents that were close to their level.
I wouldn't call Kas'im, Zannah, and a team of BM amped Jedi fodder.
The problem with using Sidious and PT examples is the defeated characters are all people that have accomplished things i,e have feats. So comparing Yoda, Obi wan, and to the fodder Bane defeated is all well and good, except Raskta, Vodo, and all of Bane's characters have zero feats to put them on par with the people you listed.
Bane still lost the duel with Zannah, who cares if he won sabers he still sucked badly enough to get his shit tossed. I also never claimed Vodo as a superior opponent than Kas'sim, they're both relatively featless with the minor exception that Vodo has actually beaten his students and actually managed to die against a student he made better as opposed to an incompetent teacher like Kas'sim who held back and still lost lol
As usual the rest of your post is original research nonsense. Kun, Malgus, Vader, and Krayt have all beaten a mixture of featless and opponents with feats- but they did so by virtue of their own skill and have force feats and dueling feats that are simply superior to Bane's.
Aside from the Orbalisk fight, I don't see any significant amps he had over his opponents.
He drew on nexuses to win, none of his feats off nexus world are as impressive as when he was on a nexus.
I wouldn't call Kas'im, Zannah, and a team of BM amped Jedi fodder.
Holy shit! You are one of the most biased and ignorant people I have ever debated with, using one way logic, double standards, and logical fallacies.
1. You disregard the power of less exposed characters when you hate them, but bring up their power when you like them.
Example, you say that Kas'im sucks for getting beaten by Bane. However when Baas gets beaten by Kun you say he's good because he could beat his other apprentices. Bane shitstomped the second greatest apprentice at the academy, who none of the other apprentices were even a match for. So not only is Kas'im better than his students, but he also, unlike Baas, has the feat of beating his master before his peak.
If anything, Kas'im's feats are superior in this regard, and you are just choosing to dismiss him and write him off as weak from his one defeat because you hate him and Bane, but not willing to do the same to Baas because you like him and Kun.
2. You use backwards and twisted logic to claim that the victories of people you hate are unimpressive because their opponents were beaten by them. You don't however use this logic for characters you do like. This logic is fallacious because it can be used to "prove" that any character is weak, and you only apply it to select characters that you hate.
For example:
Dooku defeated Obi-wan. Was that not impressive because Obi-wan wasn't good enough to beat Dooku?
Sidious beat Yoda. Was that not impressive because Yoda wasn't good enough to beat Sidious?
Kun beat Vodo. Was that not impressive because Vodo wasn't good enough to beat Kun?
Malgus beat Zallow. Was that not impressive because Zallow wasn't good enough to beat Malgus?
Vader beat the Dark Woman. Was that not impressive because the Dark Woman wasn't good enough to beat him?
Krayt beat Wyyrlok. Was that not impressive because Wyyrlok wasn't good enough to beat him?
Krayt beat Cade. Was that not impressive because Cade wasn't good enough to beat him?
The answer to all of those questions is no, and I'm fairly certain you don't think that either.
Yet somehow you assume any of Bane's victories suck because opponents didn't beat him.
That is twisted logic in and of itself, and you only apply it to characters you hate.
3. You claim Bane, Revan, and Vitiate are all weak despite this orgy of quotes:
“even his enormous command of the Force”-Darth Bane
Source: Path of Destruction
“The Sith'ari will be free of limits.
 The Sith'ari will lead the Sith and destroy them.
 The Sith'ari will raise the Sith from death and make them stronger than before.”-Darth Bane
Sources: Book of the Sith and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
“If the dark side’s most powerful master can capture the ultimate secret, the Sith will never die.”-Darth Bane
Source: Dynasty of Evil
“through the dark side he had access to near-infinite power”-Darth Bane
Source: Dynasty of Evil
"The Bane trilogy focused on Darth Bane, one of the most powerful Sith Lords who ever lived.”-Darth Bane
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."-Revan
Source: KOTOR II
"The Jedi's command of and connection to the Force was unlike anything Scourge had sensed in anyone else. Even though Revan was constantly drugged, it was impossible not to sense his strength."-Revan
Source: SWTOR: Revan
"Revan obviously focused on Revan, another incredibly powerful Force user."-Revan
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
"He was an incredibly powerful Jedi."-Revan
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
"The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen."-Vitiate
Source: SWTOR
"The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed."-Vitiate
Source: SWTORE
"unlike Revan or Bane, he isn’t one of the most powerful individuals in the universe."-Bane and Revan
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
"As much as I loved writing about all-powerful Sith [Darth Bane & Vitiate] and Jedi [Revan]”-Bane, Revan, and Vitiate
Source: Drew Karpyshyn
In light of these quotes, it's pretty much canon that Bane, Revan, and Vitiate are all incredibly powerful, and it's not even remotely arguable.
Yet you spew nonsensical bullshit like this about Bane:
Originally posted by carthage
Bane sucks as a duelist
Originally posted by carthage
he is shit
Originally posted by carthage
all three Bane's are cannon fodder
Originally posted by carthage
He's no good.
And you evidently rate Revan even lower then that when you say Bane could beat him:
Originally posted by carthage
Bane with mid difficulty
And you consider Vitiate fodder:
Originally posted by carthage
I dismiss him because he is fodder
By ignoring this orgy of quotes and continuing to write off these characters as weak because you hate them, you have proven yourself to be immensely biased to the point of complete irrationality. You write off these quotes from canon sources as meaningless with nothing more than your own word, which doesn't nearly hold enough weight to discount these quotes.
Your fallacious logic, complete disregard for the power of characters you hate, belief in your own word over canon quotes, and deliberate insulting of characters is the reason people are starting to add you to their ignore lists, the reason people have stopped taking you seriously, and the reason why you lack credibility as of now. Everybody is tired of your nonsense, and PTforthewin is just about the only person who takes you seriously any more.
More original research bullshit. Again either refute the simple claim that Bane has never beaten anyone by virtue of his own skill or concede the point. Give feats Bane has done bereft of a nexus, amp, or place strong in darkside energy that prove he's on the tier of Malgus, Kun, Krayt, and Vader or shut up.
I've successfully beaten you in three threads now, and its getting really irritating having to respond to your same posts.
Originally posted by carthage
I've successfully beaten you in three threads now, and its getting really irritating having to respond to your same posts.
You have not come anywhere near beating me as long as you blatantly disregard quotes in Canon sources with nothing more than your own word as back-up, and use logic that is fallacious in and of itself against only characters you hate. You have proven immense and irrational bias against certain characters, demonstrated several logical fallacies, and you ignore canon quotes. By doing this you have certainly not beaten me three times in a row.
Uh no you pulled out three completely irrelevant examples of PT Jedi who've beaten people with feats. I even called Ka'sim and Vodo both featless, so I'm not sure where that even came from.
I never disregarded cannon either, I simply maintain that if their feats are of a nexus, significant amp, or with prep then one has room to call them out if they lack showings. If you, Neph, and Ant don't like it it isn't my problem. Again provide me with actual dueling feats Bane has done without orbalisks, an amp, and or massively boosted or simply concede.
Originally posted by carthage
Uh no you pulled out three completely irrelevant examples of PT Jedi who've beaten people with feats.
If you claim that one character defeating their opponent is unimpressive because their opponent didn't beat them, then that is fallacious logic.
Originally posted by carthage
I even called Ka'sim and Vodo both featless, so I'm not sure where that even came from.
Originally posted by carthage
I never disregarded cannon either, I simply maintain that if their feats are of a nexus, significant amp, or with prep then one has room to call them out if they lack showings.
Originally posted by carthage
Again provide me with actual dueling feats Bane has done without orbalisks, an amp, and or massively boosted or simply concede.
I make three sometimes more and sometimes they gain substantial and interesting posts. Coincidentally, the only people I seem to draw ire from are you three morons (who I've beaten in arguments before). If you don't like the threads I make don't post in them, and go back to pretending you are Revan like a good child