@Sinious
Nice thread.
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Some fans need to understand that the conceptualization of The Chosen One and Balance of the Force is evolving with passage of time and not unique in the grand scheme of things within the mythos anymore.
Some revelations from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan:-
Ground reality:
The Force was omnipresent. It radiated stronger in certain places and at certain times, and the balance of the dark side and the light constantly shifted. But it was always there in some way, shape, or form.
Revan's perception and prophesy:
"The Force always strives for balance. The Emperor is an agent of darkness and destruction. It is inevitable that a champion of the light will one day rise to oppose him. I may be that champion." He spoke with no hint of hubris. "I've played the role before. At the very least, I will make the Emperor step back and reconsider his plan. If that is my fate—if my role is to sacrifice myself for the one who will come next—then I embrace it."
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Emperor Vitiate wasn't a normal being since birth. It was as he was willed by the Force to a supremely strong agent of darkness.
The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.
Emperor Vitiate had an unusual dark aura and he intimated his surroundings since birth:
"They say he was born with eyes as black as the void of empty space, and that he never cried, even as an infant. No animal would come near him, and when he began to talk, his voice carried a weight and power that should not come from a child."
These statements seem to give the vibe that Vitiate had immense (natural) potential in the Force, much higher then norm.
In addition, it is possible that Emperor Vitiate shifted the balance of the Force with his dark sorcery:
The ritual lasted ten days. Lord Vitiate orchestrated the sorcery and the planet Mediraas was consumed by the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see. When the ritual ended, Lord Vitiate emerged as the only survivor. The pain, energy, and suffering of every living entity on the planet fueled his power and would prolong his life for centuries. The lifeless planet of Mediraas became a void in the Force and was erased from history. From that moment forward, the world would forever be known as Nathema, birthplace of the one and only Sith Emperor.
Interestingly, 'multiple' champions of light came in to existence and attempted to checkmate Emperor Vitiate but many failed:
The Jedi dispatched scouts and spies to learn as much as they could about this new enemy and its enigmatic leader. However, the Sith Emperor was a master of subterfuge and misdirection, continually thwarting all efforts to uncover his dark secrets.
Most Jedi who ventured into Imperial space vanished without a trace, but a few managed to send back disturbing messages to their Masters. These fragmented communiques showed the Emperor's Jedi pursuers descending into fear, madness, and evil when faced with his power. It quickly became clear the Sith Emperor was more then a brilliant military strategist and cunning political leader. He was a living embodiment of the dark side of the Force who delighted in destroying the minds and spirits of those Jedi who came too close to him.
Revan, Barsen'thor (3) and Hero of Tython are among these champions of light and had most impact. Still, these champions wouldn't have succeeded if Lord Scourge had not helped them. To me, it seems like as if Lord Scourge was destined/willed by the Force to orchestrate the downfall of Emperor Vitiate from within. Lord Scourge, a Sith Lord, which is shocking development.
Jedi often state this:
"The Force works in mysterious ways"
Power factor wouldn't have done the trick, Emperor Vitiate was simply too strong for most Force-users. He had history of decimating entire Strike Teams of powerful Force-users in direct confrontations.
The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.
The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.
NOTE: Sidious's downfall also did not occur due to his enemies being stronger then him. It occurred with combined efforts of his enemies.
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Emperor Vitiate was a dark side prodigy of such a caliber that he influenced the environment of an entire world with his presence, powers and dark side practices throughout, permanently transformed Dromund Kaas in to a planet strong in the dark side on the whole, constantly influenced its weather conditions with his dark side practices for as long as he existed and created powerful nexuses in some parts of this world which appealed most to the Emperor for his dark practices.
Yes, this guy emitted an aura of a godlike being to his surroundings. Even pointed out in official capacity:
Over 300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side. They argued briefly over whether to alert the Republic and Jedi Council, but Revan was already too consumed by arrogance and anger to consider the possibility of defeat. By the time Revan and Malak approached the Emperor in his throne room, they were already at the precipice of the dark side. It took only a fraction of the Emperor's loathsome power to complete their fall. The Jedi succumbed utterly to the Sith leader's domination and returned to the Republic to spark a new conflict: the Jedi Civil War.
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I totally get Sidious's achievements but no one matches the magnitude of influence that Emperor Vitiate managed to exert on his surroundings. The latter managed to humble thousands of Sith Lords including the mighty ones while the former avoided/minimized competition and potential threats to his existence. The feat of controlling the mighty Dread Masters literally takes the cake, IMO. A lone Dread Master was a force to be reckoned with, controlling 6 of them is mind-boggling achievement and arguably greatest display of power in the mythos till date.
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Sidious rose to prominence in a very different setting from Emperor Vitiate. During the time of Sidious, the Sith had learned a great deal from history and came up with the new strategy to defeat the Jedi, use subterfuge to outdo the Jedi, catch the Jedi by surprise by fooling them. The Sith embedded themselves within the Republic and plotted their ascension from within. In older times, the Sith forged their own Empires and attempted to destroy the Jedi and the Republic from wars but internal rifts among the Sith proved to be their undoing time and again. In these times, Emperor Vitiate managed to refine the Sith like no other:
Under the guidance of the Emperor—the immortal and all-powerful savior who still reigned over them even after a thousand years—they abandoned the hedonistic lifestyles of their barbaric ancestors.
It shall also be kept in mind that Emperor managed to transform Sith in to a superpower in pure secrecy and limited resources at his disposal which isn't an easy feat by any stretch of imagination.
And Emperor Vitiate's plans led to utter destruction of the Jedi Order twice. 1st time during Jedi Civil War orchestrated by him and 2nd time during the Great Galactic War. In-fact, the Republic became a mere shadow of its former-self during the Jedi Civil War but Revan managed to prevent an invasion from the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire for 300 years. If it not for Revan's efforts, Emperor Vitiate would have taken over the galaxy. Revan granted Republic and Jedi Order much needed time to become stronger then ever before and this is why Great Galactic War turned out be such a difficult endeavor as pointed out in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia.
In conclusion:
No Sith has generated as much curiosity, frustration, and fear among the Jedi as the Empire's dread ruler.
I can't find much wrong with it except for the fact that the Sacking of Coruscant and the Great Galactic War somehow lead to the "utter destruction of the Jedi Order." despite the fact that it wasn't utterly destroyed.
As to the whole Chosen One thing, I think I agree depending on what you actually mean, I think there's a difference between what Mortis has for a Chosen One, someone like Anakin whose supposed to keep the Force literally in check, and someone like pretty much every other powerhouse who's supposed to keep the galaxy in check, and thus bring balance, instead of restraining the Force itself. Mostly because all the prophecy says in a nutshell is, "When times are tough, someone will make it better, and everything will go back to normal." All of that destroy the Sith stuff is added propaganda.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I can't find much wrong with it except for the fact that the Sacking of Coruscant and the Great Galactic War somehow lead to the "utter destruction of the Jedi Order." despite the fact that it wasn't utterly destroyed.
Spoiler:
This is part of the TOR camp's attempts to aggrandize Vitiate's accomplishments by very subtly implying that the carnage wrought by Vitiate's machinations is comparable to the Emperor's Order 66. When in reality, as you point out, it's not even close.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
As to the whole Chosen One thing, I think I agree depending on what you actually mean, I think there's a difference between what Mortis has for a Chosen One, someone like Anakin whose supposed to keep the Force literally in check, and someone like pretty much every other powerhouse who's supposed to keep the galaxy in check, and thus bring balance, instead of restraining the Force itself. Mostly because all the prophecy says in a nutshell is, "When times are tough, someone will make it better, and everything will go back to normal." All of that destroy the Sith stuff is added propaganda.
Spoiler:
Another attempt by the TOR camp to blow shiz entirely out of proportion. The Hero of Tython et al. are, as you point out, really no different from the likes of Luke Skywalker: a heroic figure introduced in a time of great peril to combat the forces of darkness.Anakin Skywalker is another matter entirely. He is a cosmic Messiah figure of divine origin and prophesy. Tython and Revan are pedestrian in comparison and far less special.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
High praise from you, Moose. So, despite the fact that LeGenD is on ignore, I opened that post and read it.It sucked balls, frankly. I can only conclude you're trolling these guys with your endorsement.
Sorry you're mad.
Also, sorry you actually ignore people. I've never used the feature before.
Originally posted by The_TempestSpoiler:
Another attempt by the TOR camp to blow shiz entirely out of proportion. The Hero of Tython et al. are, as you point out, really no different from the likes of Luke Skywalker: a heroic figure introduced in a time of great peril to combat the forces of darkness.Anakin Skywalker is another matter entirely. He is a cosmic Messiah figure of divine origin and prophesy. Tython and Revan are pedestrian in comparison and far less special.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
You can either defend your false emperor or watch the season 4 finale of GoT. Either would please me.I know. I wasn't arguing with you, I was expounding upon your remarks.
I will 1337 hax00rz it this weekend. After I rewatch the previous three seasons.
So on second thought, maybe I'll get to it.
Also, Vitiate ruled more powerful dudes and didn' get kicked in the face, tossed over a table and chair, or benchpressed into a chasm.
He wins by default.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I will 1337 hax00rz it this weekend. After I rewatch the previous three seasons.So on second thought, maybe I'll get to it.
Also, Vitiate ruled more powerful dudes and didn' get kicked in the face, tossed over a table and chair, or benchpressed into a chasm.
He wins by default.
He ran into a lightsaber bro and lost a fight with an astromech.
Vitiate's a loser.