Khan Noonien Singh vs. Palpatine

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you never proved that. Disney site corroborates it as well.

Prove it.

At his most powerful he can't hurt Luke in ten seconds. I'm arguing with you by your logic saying Sheev is weak as **** at his most powerful.

Evidence disagrees. The site isn't the movie or TCW, or rebels. Movie feats only. Do you need to reread the rules.

Prove he let them go or prove he knocked maul unconscious?

At a weaker form, he can force choke Dooku without difficulty, knock Anakin out, in seconds, be so powerful Dooku was afraid to fight him by himself, knock Yoda out, throw Windu out of a window. Again Dooku can knock Anakin out with less time, able to put Ventress down with less time, throw Ventress and her sisters out of his window, and so much more. Sidious is much more powerful so in a realistic point with no plot armor or anything Sidious woudl have killed him really based off of showings.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Evidence disagrees. The site isn't the movie or TCW, or rebels. Movie feats only. Do you need to reread the rules.

Prove he let them go or prove he knocked maul unconscious?

At a weaker form, he can force choke Dooku without difficulty, knock Anakin out, in seconds, be so powerful Dooku was afraid to fight him by himself, knock Yoda out, throw Windu out of a window. Again Dooku can knock Anakin out with less time, able to put Ventress down with less time, throw Ventress and her sisters out of his window, and so much more. Sidious is much more powerful so in a realistic point with no plot armor or anything Sidious woudl have killed him really based off of showings.

Prove he let them go.

Dooku didn't fight back. Windu was disarmed literally so knocking him out of the window isn't anything to praise.

No. Khan has firepower Palpatine can't deal with. He has damage soak that can resist the fl since even Luke did so. Khan is too ruthless, too skilled, and has firepower Sheev can't deal with.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It is Disney's official site and the movie shows Windu won. The movie never says Sheev threw the fight. Not once. Evidence talks.

Prove he let them go.

Dooku didn't fight back. Windu was disarmed literally so knocking him out of the window isn't anything to praise.

No. Khan has firepower Palpatine can't deal with. He has damage soak that can resist the fl since even Luke did so. Khan is too ruthless, too skilled, and has firepower Sheev can't deal with.

Not the movie or any animated tv show so it doesn't count as proof here. Plenty of proof that says he did.

His hand gestures show he put them down.

So? Dooku forced pushed and choked a Kenobi that was fighting back. Using the force is a concentration ability. The ability to use lightning and at the same time throw someone back or throw them out of anything shows a strength of power. This is shown by how Dooku uses force lightning on Anakin on naboo when he force pushes him back he seems like he's extra concentrating.

Well you would have to prove he can't deal with that firepower. He was able to tank his own force lightning, without any harm to his stamina or physical strength or anything. He was in fact feigning weakenss. Durability can only last someone for so long, and Sidious will shock him for as long as it takes. Also he can slice him in half with his sabers.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Not the movie or any animated tv show so it doesn't count as proof here. Plenty of proof that says he did.

His hand gestures show he put them down.

So? Dooku forced pushed and choked a Kenobi that was fighting back. Using the force is a concentration ability. The ability to use lightning and at the same time throw someone back or throw them out of anything shows a strength of power. This is shown by how Dooku uses force lightning on Anakin on naboo when he force pushes him back he seems like he's extra concentrating.

Well you would have to prove he can't deal with that firepower. He was able to tank his own force lightning, without any harm to his stamina or physical strength or anything. He was in fact feigning weakenss. Durability can only last someone for so long, and Sidious will shock him for as long as it takes. Also he can slice him in half with his sabers.

No, the show didn't.

At the right time just like Ventress did at a pivotal moment in time as well. No, it doesn't but if it does prove it.

That was weaker force lighting since you said rotj version was his strongest and it scarred him. It didn't scar Sheev. The firepower Khan uses leaves giant holes in armored Klingons. Sheev has a cloak on. 😂

A saber doesn't even leave a giant hole in someone. 😂

Khan one shots him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can ignore the site and Disney canon but the film proves he lost. Support he threw the fight with clips.

No, the show didn't.

At the right time just like Ventress did at a pivotal moment in time as well. No, it doesn't but if it does prove it.

That was weaker force lighting since you said rotj version was his strongest and it scarred him. It didn't scar Sheev. The firepower Khan uses leaves giant holes in armored Klingons. Sheev has a cloak on. 😂

A saber doesn't even leave a giant hole in someone. 😂

Khan one shots him.

I've already shown clips of the same fight. I don't ignore the site. It's canon I agree. It doesn't go with the rules though.

https://youtu.be/E8uXBdCIsrU 0:56-1:01 you were saying.

So we agree using TK and lightning at the same time is a good feat.

Weaker then ROTJ, but still strong. Those Klingons don't have force augmentation or speed close to Sidious'. Nor his force powers which can take his guns away and kill him.

It leaves a hole and guess what kills people. So really the end result is the important part. Both are able to kill so what's the point in saying one leaves a bigger hole than the other when they both leave holes and kill.

He can't do that without a gun. Sidious took it away.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I've already shown clips of the same fight. I don't ignore the site. It's canon I agree. It doesn't go with the rules though.

https://youtu.be/E8uXBdCIsrU 0:56-1:01 you were saying.

So we agree using TK and lightning at the same time is a good feat.

Weaker then ROTJ, but still strong. Those Klingons don't have force augmentation or speed close to Sidious'. Nor his force powers which can take his guns away and kill him.

It leaves a hole and guess what kills people. So really the end result is the important part. Both are able to kill so what's the point in saying one leaves a bigger hole than the other when they both leave holes and kill.

He can't do that without a gun. Sidious took it away.

I do not agree that it's that special. The point isn't that it's about durability when hit. Quit trying to shift the goalposts.

We are comparing power and fl didn't kill Luke. He survived the strongest Sheev ever according to you and he walked away with no scarring or long term damage. One shot from the Boolean gun kills.

You never proved that. That's also scripting. You're bad at this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you admit I'm right and it's canon.

I do not agree that it's that special. The point isn't that it's about durability when hit. Quit trying to shift the goalposts.

We are comparing power and fl didn't kill Luke. He survived the strongest Sheev ever according to you and he walked away with no scarring or long term damage. One shot from the Boolean gun kills.

You never proved that. That's also scripting. You're bad at this.

I agree that the site is canon. I never disagreed. However it's not valid in this thread.

Well you think everyone is weak so what you think doesn't matter. Durability is a contributing factor. Khan's durability is good, but wasn't he suffering from Spoke. Sidious lightning will have effects as well. Khan's durability won't last forever, but Sidious can keep on going.

Again Luke is a plot character. He can't be killed for the plot. Without Luke we can't have a good episode 7. The original trilogy couldn't happen. The empire would still be in control. Power wise Sidious has more versatility than khan, he can also ragdoll him, and shock him, and kill him with his saber.

It's self explanatory. Sidious can use his force powers that can pick objects up, and the gun is an object so he could take something that small away. Sidious wins due to his amazing force powers.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I agree that the site is canon. I never disagreed. However it's not valid in this thread.

Well you think everyone is weak so what you think doesn't matter. Durability is a contributing factor. Khan's durability is good, but wasn't he suffering from Spoke. Sidious lightning will have effects as well. Khan's durability won't last forever, but Sidious can keep on going.

Again Luke is a plot character. He can't be killed for the plot. Without Luke we can't have a good episode 7. The original trilogy couldn't happen. The empire would still be in control. Power wise Sidious has more versatility than khan, he can also ragdoll him, and shock him, and kill him with his saber.

It's self explanatory. Sidious can use his force powers that can pick objects up, and the gun is an object so he could take something that small away. Sidious wins due to his amazing force powers.

It doesn't need to as Khan's firepower just needs one shot whereas Luke tanked the most powerful Sidious FL ever and walked away without any long term effects or scarring.

None of that matters. Luke tanked the fl which is a fact. Versatility doesn't matter when Khan is more ruthless and sports a weapon that would make the weak dead emperor salivate.

Then prove it. Khan fires first. Why didn't Sidious just tk away Yoda's saber ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you agree.

It doesn't need to as Khan's firepower just needs one shot whereas Luke tanked the most powerful Sidious FL ever and walked away without any long term effects or scarring.

None of that matters. Luke tanked the fl which is a fact. Versatility doesn't matter when Khan is more ruthless and sports a weapon that would make the weak dead emperor salivate.

Then prove it. Khan fires first. Why didn't Sidious just tk away Yoda's saber ?

That it's canon yes.

Well that one shot has to hit, and Sidious has TK which he can use to ragdoll khan.

Again plot armor. Notice Dooku knocked Anakin unconscious, and that was even less powerful than ROTS Sidious. Versatility gives Sidious more than plenty to win.

He picked up the senate pods which are much larger than the gun and bolted down. Khan's grip isn't good enough to resist Sidious power, and the gun is much smaller. He knocked it out of his hand with lightning didn't he?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That it's canon yes.

Well that one shot has to hit, and Sidious has TK which he can use to ragdoll khan.

Again plot armor. Notice Dooku knocked Anakin unconscious, and that was even less powerful than ROTS Sidious. Versatility gives Sidious more than plenty to win.

He picked up the senate pods which are much larger than the gun and bolted down. Khan's grip isn't good enough to resist Sidious power, and the gun is much smaller. He knocked it out of his hand with lightning didn't he?

Which your evidence shows doesn't defeat Khan.

He didn't have plot armor. He was being hurt. Vader had to act to save him. Anakin ran right into it and was stupid. Luke wasn't caught off guard,

Based on ?

The pods are inanimate objects. Prove it. Show Sheev disarming someone amidst combat. The pods weigh more than Yoda's saber so why didn't he just take his saber away based off your ridiculous logic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you agree I'm right.

Which your evidence shows doesn't defeat Khan.

He didn't have plot armor. He was being hurt. Vader had to act to save him. Anakin ran right into it and was stupid. Luke wasn't caught off guard,

Based on ?

The pods are inanimate objects. Prove it. Show Sheev disarming someone amidst combat. The pods weigh more than Yoda's saber so why didn't he just take his saber away based off your ridiculous logic.

About the site being canon yes.

Darth maul vs Darth Sidious. Sidious makes maul beg for mercy after he gets TK'd.

He did have plot armor. If Luke didn't survive then Star Wars would only have the six movies.

Sidious power doing more than Khan can take.

So is the gun. Khan has no feats showing he can handle it. Sidious doesn't need feats or proof to show he can disamr someone with the force. We see people like maul do it with a simple force push. We also see Dooku do it. All of these people much weaker than Sidious. He attacked with force lightning first and disamred him so it was no need to use TK to disarm him.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
About the site being canon yes.

Darth maul vs Darth Sidious. Sidious makes maul beg for mercy after he gets TK'd.

He did have plot armor. If Luke didn't survive then Star Wars would only have the six movies.

Sidious power doing more than Khan can take.

So is the gun. Khan has no feats showing he can handle it. Sidious doesn't need feats or proof to show he can disamr someone with the force. We see people like maul do it with a simple force push. We also see Dooku do it. All of these people much weaker than Sidious. He attacked with force lightning first and disamred him so it was no need to use TK to disarm him.

After he was disarmed and beaten. That isn't plot armor. Luke survived the fl. Fact.

Having. Ore application is meanginless it only matters what's effective, dummy.

He handled 8 stun blasts. 😂

Every claim needs to be supported, kiddo. So you have no evidence thus forfeiting your claim.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok, I win.

After he was disarmed and beaten. That isn't plot armor. Luke survived the fl. Fact.

Having. Ore application is meanginless it only matters what's effective, dummy.

He handled 8 stun blasts. 😂

Every claim needs to be supported, kiddo. So you have no evidence thus forfeiting your claim.

We see before he was capable of TKing him so really doesn't matter based on showings. Yes it's plot armor.

It can't be effective if Luke had plot armor.

Ok, well that just means Sidious going to have shock him for a long time. At the end Khan was put back into hibernation.

It's good thing I proved mine then.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
We see before he was capable of TKing him so really doesn't matter based on showings. Yes it's plot armor.

It can't be effective if Luke had plot armor.

Ok, well that just means Sidious going to have shock him for a long time. At the end Khan was put back into hibernation.

It's good thing I proved mine then.

Prove it. The scene counts and guys don't get plot armor passes. Heroes get killed all the time.

Khan shoots him. He dies.

You said you don't need to prove it and ignored my questions forfeiting the debate.

Originally posted by quanchi112
At the right time he can just as Maul can tk Kenobi at the right time.

Prove it. The scene counts and guys don't get plot armor passes. Heroes get killed all the time.

Khan shoots him. He dies.

You said you don't need to prove it and ignored my questions forfeiting the debate.

Again you go on and on about right timing. Sidious is just way more powerful than maul. Even if so, you make it sound like Sidious could never find the right time for khan. Khans weaker than maul due to not having a force wall.

An entire trilogy was based around Luke and his growing up and fighting the empire. How do you think that would have worked without Luke. Then he is vital in episode 7, how do you think it's going to work out without Luke. Think about that and get back to me.

Prove it.

All depends on what the point is. Like Sidious being able to take khan's gun away is pretty self evident. What question. Why Sidious didn't TK Yoda lightsaber? I already answered that.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Again you go on and on about right timing. Sidious is just way more powerful than maul. Even if so, you make it sound like Sidious could never find the right time for khan. Khans weaker than maul due to not having a force wall.

An entire trilogy was based around Luke and his growing up and fighting the empire. How do you think that would have worked without Luke. Then he is vital in episode 7, how do you think it's going to work out without Luke. Think about that and get back to me.

Prove it.

All depends on what the point is. Like Sidious being able to take khan's gun away is pretty self evident. What question. Why Sidious didn't TK Yoda lightsaber? I already answered that.

No, we know he lived but acting like the e ding was decided and ignoring the fl is fanboyism. Luke tanked all out most powerful Palpatine according to you and walked away fine. Embarrassing.

You never prove anything.

Then prove it. You already said you don't believe proof is required making debating with you impossible as you're a confirmed troll.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Then why fight him at all ? We have seen Ventress force choke two Jedi both more powerful due to the right timing. Prove when they use force walls on the films. Khan shoots him down.

No, we know he lived but acting like the e ding was decided and ignoring the fl is fanboyism. Luke tanked all out most powerful Palpatine according to you and walked away fine. Embarrassing.

You never prove anything.

Then prove it. You already said you don't believe proof is required making debating with you impossible as you're a confirmed troll.

He's a Sith. They revel in victories. Especially when they know they will always win. Anakin has already been explained. Kenobi, that could just mean you've underestimated Ventress. In TCW we see Dooku tank a telekinetic storm thrown by Anakin, and he's an old man, Anakin and Obi wan tanked a force wave sent by Dooku, Maul in mid combat would have a force wall up and Sidious broke through that several times, and many other examples. You would have to prove khan could infect shoot him. How does he get past Sidious' great command of the force?

Again that's all plot armor. Luke had to survive. We see weaker force lightning do most worst. Granted Sidious was toying around the first part and gave him breaks in between, however under that great power based off of other showings from weaker force weilders from less same or possibly greater time put the victim unconscious. Plot armor based off of evidence.

Coming from the guy whose never won a debate in his life. 😂

Sidious can lift objects as seen in ROTS. The gun is an object of much smaller weight so it's confirmed he can lift it. Khan has never shown any resistance to TK and neither has his weaponry. He doesn't have a force wall. All facts it doesn't get more clear than this.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
He's a Sith. They revel in victories. Especially when they know they will always win. Anakin has already been explained. Kenobi, that could just mean you've underestimated Ventress. In TCW we see Dooku tank a telekinetic storm thrown by Anakin, and he's an old man, Anakin and Obi wan tanked a force wave sent by Dooku, Maul in mid combat would have a force wall up and Sidious broke through that several times, and many other examples. You would have to prove khan could infect shoot him. How does he get past Sidious' great command of the force?

Again that's all plot armor. Luke had to survive. We see weaker force lightning do most worst. Granted Sidious was toying around the first part and gave him breaks in between, however under that great power based off of other showings from weaker force weilders from less same or possibly greater time put the victim unconscious. Plot armor based off of evidence.

Coming from the guy whose never won a debate in his life. 😂

Sidious can lift objects as seen in ROTS. The gun is an object of much smaller weight so it's confirmed he can lift it. Khan has never shown any resistance to TK and neither has his weaponry. He doesn't have a force wall. All facts it doesn't get more clear than this.

So my theory about weaker Jedi or Sith tking is indeed proven and your conjecture isn't.

Coming from the guy who can't make up his own mind whether to ignore me or not. You're weak.

Lifting an inanimate object is different than lifting a weapon held by an opponent. Sheev couldn't tk away Yoda's saber. Khan is stronger than Yoda. Therefore he can't tk a weapon capable of long ranged damage unlike a saber. You've never proven a force wall. Hell, Yoda drove Sidious back easily with a tk push. It hits them all the same. Khan guns him down.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He didn't defeat him so that wasn't reveling in victory. You have no idea what the words you use even mean.

So my theory about weaker Jedi or Sith tking is indeed proven and your conjecture isn't.

Coming from the guy who can't make up his own mind whether to ignore me or not. You're weak.

Lifting an inanimate object is different than lifting a weapon held by an opponent. Sheev couldn't tk away Yoda's saber. Khan is stronger than Yoda. Therefore he can't tk a weapon capable of long ranged damage unlike a saber. You've never proven a force wall. Hell, Yoda drove Sidious back easily with a tk push. It hits them all the same. Khan guns him down.

Sidious did defeat maul, what you talking about. I have more knowledge than you and I'm younger than you. Now that's sad. Your life must be crap.

No my so called conjecture it's pretty much an understood thing. The main characters tend to have plot armor. Why didn't maul just kill Obi when really he had already won in TPM. Kenobi had to survive to live through to a Mew Hope.m

Coming from the guy who can't prove a single thing to save his own life.

Uhh basically same thing. Both inanimate objects and both are bolted down. One to Khan's grip and the other to the infrastructure of the building. Again Khan hasn't displayed any resistance to TK to say he can resist this. Didn't doesn't translate to couldn't. Khan gets crushed by Yoda. The logic you use is very faulty. Yoda was able to TK Ventress lightsaber's. I actually have you're just dumb. It's like a sheild. All shields can be broken by someone powerful enough. Yoda and Sidious being close enough in power would allow them to break through each other's force wall. Look at the effect of some of those force pushes though. The examples I told you. You would have to prove that since Sidious can just TK his gun if he sees its a problem.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Sidious did defeat maul, what you talking about. I have more knowledge than you and I'm younger than you. Now that's sad. Your life must be crap.

No my so called conjecture it's pretty much an understood thing. The main characters tend to have plot armor. Why didn't maul just kill Obi when really he had already won in TPM. Kenobi had to survive to live through to a Mew Hope.m

Coming from the guy who can't prove a single thing to save his own life.

Uhh basically same thing. Both inanimate objects and both are bolted down. One to Khan's grip and the other to the infrastructure of the building. Again Khan hasn't displayed any resistance to TK to say he can resist this. Didn't doesn't translate to couldn't. Khan gets crushed by Yoda. The logic you use is very faulty. Yoda was able to TK Ventress lightsaber's. I actually have you're just dumb. It's like a sheild. All shields can be broken by someone powerful enough. Yoda and Sidious being close enough in power would allow them to break through each other's force wall. Look at the effect of some of those force pushes though. The examples I told you. You would have to prove that since Sidious can just TK his gun if he sees its a problem.

That isn't plot armor. He survived and so did Luke. Quit making things up.

Irony.

One isn't facing any active resistance. Sheev didn't tk Yoda's saber away. That's easier than tossing pods away.

That isn't Sheev that is Yoda. We don't swap out feats, kiddo. Ventress was also trash. You dint have any examples so all you have is a baseless claim. Shame.