Captain America vs. Khan (h2h)

Started by h1a818 pages

Originally posted by Silent Master
Cap has better strength feats.

Cap also has better durability feats.

Again, Cap's feats vs energy projection and blunt force are better,

Why should I be impressed with the skill level of Nu-Klingons?

Cap is stronger, faster, more skilled and has better durability...Cap wins.


Cap's better strength feats are not enough since it could be argued that Kahn feats are just as good.
Cap's durability feats against blunt force ARE NOT BETTER than Kahn's. Kirk would have at least drew blood from Cap after all those hits (even considering Cap's durability feats).

Because Klingons are highly trained and seasoned fighters by the suspension of disbelief. Otherwise, why would any of the people Cap fought be impressive in skill?

Cap is slightly stronger (strength almost never wins a ufc match), not much faster in combat fighting one on one, slightly more skilled, has slightly worse durability will lose BECAUSE OF KAHN'S REGENERATIVE ABILITIES.

How can Cap win when he can't keep any progress (Kahn heals and is good as new)?

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap's better strength feats are not enough since it could be argued that Kahn feats are just as good.

Except for the fact that they can't, Cap's strength feats are clearly better.

Cap's durability feats against blunt force ARE NOT BETTER than Kahn's. Kirk would have at least drew blood from Cap after all those hits (even considering Cap's durability feats).

Except they are, Cap's various falls and hits from the likes of Red Skull, Loki and Winter Soldier are better than anything Khan has taken.

Because Klingons are highly trained and seasoned fighters by the suspension of disbelief. Otherwise, why would any of the people Cap fought be impressive in skill?

Because we actually saw Cap and several of the people he fought showcase more skill than Khan did.

Cap is slightly stronger (strength almost never wins a ufc match), not much faster in combat fighting one on one, slightly more skilled, has slightly worse durability will lose BECAUSE OF KAHN'S REGENERATIVE ABILITIES.

How can Cap win when he can't keep any progress (Kahn heals and is good as new)?

Again; per feats Cap is stronger, faster, more skilled and has better durability. Also as has been pointed out, Khan's regenerative blood hasn't been shown to help in fight.

Originally posted by h1a8
Cap's better strength feats are not enough since it could be argued that Kahn feats are just as good.
You say here that Cap has better strength feats. That, by definition, means Khans feats are not as good.

Cap picked up a 7-10 ton metal wall/beam.

He overpowered Bucky's biotic arm with one arm.

Do you really think crushing someones head puts him on par with that?

Cap's durability feats against blunt force ARE NOT BETTER than Kahn's. Kirk would have at least drew blood from Cap after all those hits (even considering Cap's durability feats).
A normal person punching Captain America drawing blood? I doubt it. The dude got decked in the face plenty by Red Skull, a being with super strength, and didn't spill a drop. The dude got blasted out of a window by an alien grenade, landed on the car below, and didn't still a drop. That massive fall he took in CA2? Not a drop spilled. In almost everything he's been through, we almost never see him bleed.

It took letting Winter soldier deck him full on in the face over and over with his biotic arm and all his body weight behind every punch to draw blood (barely), and he took that like a champ. He wasn't knocked out, or even phased. He got right back to talking. Kirk would not have drawn blood from this guy.

Because Klingons are highly trained and seasoned fighters by the suspension of disbelief. Otherwise, why would any of the people Cap fought be impressive in skill?
Because we have plenty of examples of SHIELD soldiers who are stupid impressive when it comes to skill. Black Widow, Hawkeye, Maria Hill, Nick Fury, Coulson, the dude from the one-shots who defected to Hydra, Crossbones, (etc...). SHIELD agents have plenty of impressive instances, and cap took plenty of them. Batroc? Clearly a very skilled hand to hand combatant.

Thats before we get to his super powered opponents. We don't have one Klingon example. Winter Soldier, Red Skull, Loki are all much more impressive than some Klingons, Kirk, or Spock (who he struggled against).

Cap is slightly stronger (strength almost never wins a ufc match), not much faster in combat fighting one on one, slightly more skilled, has slightly worse durability will lose BECAUSE OF KAHN'S REGENERATIVE ABILITIES.
1. Those regenerative abilities aren't good enough to help him immediately in a fight.

2. Neither is Caps. He was also said to have a healing factor. He cant even get drunk any more. He face was almost completely healed a few minutes after Bucky went to town on it. The dude spent plenty of time frozen in ice and survived just like Khan and his people, thanks to a similar healing factor.

Khans healing factor in no way makes him better than Cap.

How can Cap win when he can't keep any progress (Kahn heals and is good as new)?
Khan wont be making progress near fast enough. Caps damage output is gonna be too much.

These aren't two people in the same ball park. Cap is more skilled, faster, significantly stronger, has better durability feats, and a healing factor to boot (that wont help him in a short term fight, just like Khans). Cap slaughters here. It's not even close.

why so many khan threads?

Originally posted by Inhuman
why so many khan threads?
I think people like messing with a poster who's a massive fan of his. They place him in fights he cant win out of spite for a laugh.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
I think people like messing with a poster who's a massive fan of his. They place him in fights he cant win out of spite for a laugh.

lol. is it H1 cause he is always wrong

Originally posted by Inhuman
lol. is it H1 cause he is always wrong
I'm not sure who that is. No, its Quanchi. To be honest, the dude probably considers all this flattering. People put waaaay to much effort into it.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
I'm not sure who that is.

H1a8 - the guy you last replied to on this page besides me.

ah quianchi. Never had any issues with him in the comic vs. forum. I think he is a funny dude over there 🙂

Cap wins btw

Originally posted by Inhuman
H1a8 - the guy you last replied to on this page besides me.

ah quianchi. Never had any issues with him in the comic vs. forum. I think he is a funny dude over there 🙂

Cap wins btw

Oh, hopefully he doesn't take that personally. I usually just reply to and fix posts with false facts. I don't always look at the poster.

And agreed.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
You say here that Cap has better strength feats. That, by definition, means Khans feats are not as good.

Cap picked up a 7-10 ton metal wall/beam.

He overpowered Bucky's biotic arm with one arm.

Do you really think crushing someones head puts him on par with that?

A 7-10 ton metal wall/beam? I call BS. What scene is this?
How strong is Bucky's biotic arm, what are it's feats?
Yes crushing someone's skull (the hardest bone in the body) is phucking incredible.


A normal person punching Captain America drawing blood? I doubt it. The dude got decked in the face plenty by Red Skull, a being with super strength, and didn't spill a drop. The dude got blasted out of a window by an alien grenade, landed on the car below, and didn't still a drop. That massive fall he took in CA2? Not a drop spilled. In almost everything he's been through, we almost never see him bleed.
Red Skull did draw blood from Cap. Cap used the shield to block the grenade. Landing on a car doesn't automatically make you spill blood depending on how you land on it. What massive fall?


It took letting Winter soldier deck him full on in the face over and over with his biotic arm and all his body weight behind every punch to draw blood (barely), and he took that like a champ. He wasn't knocked out, or even phased. He got right back to talking. Kirk would not have drawn blood from this guy.
TBH I feel asleep near the end of winter soldier. I have to see it and judge. You could be right if Bucky hit Cap over and over in the face with the arm and barely got blood to come out. If that's the case then Kirk is not drawing blood at all.


Because we have plenty of examples of SHIELD soldiers who are stupid impressive when it comes to skill. Black Widow, Hawkeye, Maria Hill, Nick Fury, Coulson, the dude from the one-shots who defected to Hydra, Crossbones, (etc...). SHIELD agents have plenty of impressive instances, and cap took plenty of them. Batroc? Clearly a very skilled hand to hand combatant.
BW, Hawkeye, etc. has nothing to do with Cap. They never fought him. If they did then they would be outclassed by the strength and durability advantage and not necessarily skill.
Batroc does have skilled. But fighting many skilled Klingons (who may be slightly less skilled than Batroc) and owning them like childred is more impressive than not instantly beating Batroc.

Thats before we get to his super powered opponents. We don't have one Klingon example. Winter Soldier, Red Skull, Loki are all much more impressive than some Klingons, Kirk, or Spock (who he struggled against).

Vulcans are significantly stronger than humans. They have both superhuman strength and durability. So the spock showing was a little Pissy but still acceptable.


1. Those regenerative abilities aren't good enough to help him immediately in a fight.

2. Neither is Caps. He was also said to have a healing factor. He cant even get drunk any more. He face was almost completely healed a few minutes after Bucky went to town on it. The dude spent plenty of time frozen in ice and survived just like Khan and his people, thanks to a similar healing factor.


1. Why not? Kahn heals instantly. His blood instantly healed a girl who was dying in a matter of seconds. Going from death to life in seconds is phucking amazing.
Cap has no healing feats. And where was it stated he has a HF? Thus he doesn't have a HF at all. He doesn't instantly heal at all.


These aren't two people in the same ball park. Cap is more skilled, faster, significantly stronger, has better durability feats, and a healing factor to boot (that wont help him in a short term fight, just like Khans). Cap slaughters here. It's not even close.
Cap is slightly more skilled, basically as strong, not really faster in one on one combat, I have to look at the Bucky feat for durability, and no healing factor to boot (I disagree).

Cap took a hammer shot from thor with his shield and knocked thor on his ass. In the same movie (Avengers) thor with the help of his hammer utterly abliterated multiple mechanical serpents. Roughly the size of a ten plus story building. Only other avenger to do this was hulk.

khan has shown me nothing to tell me he could duplicate theses feats even if he had caps shield. If caps digs down I think he can boost his strength levels well beyond khans limits.

Khans only advantage is healing ability and even at that I didn't see him get up from the spock beating and he was hit by a mere piece of bulk head. Cap has a shield that's a lot tough then a piece of bulk head. ANd as far as the stuns go I don't see any reason why Cap couldn't take thoses either. I just don't see the stun feats as impressive. Key word STUN not kill. In many movie the stun feature on a alien type wepon had no effect on a enhanced human. Stargate atlantis for example had several instances where juiced up humans were basically immune to stun guns.

The stun feats bottom line are WEAK sauce and shouldn't be used anymore.

That was Caps shield. The vibrabium reacted to the massive energy from Thors hammer and bounced it back.

Originally posted by h1a8
A 7-10 ton metal wall/beam? I call BS. What scene is this?
How strong is Bucky's biotic arm, what are it's feats?
Yes crushing someone's skull (the hardest bone in the body) is phucking incredible.
The scene you fell asleep on. The wall of the helicarrier falls on top of Bucky after their fight. Rogers dead lifts it up enough for him to get out.

And WS uses that arm to tear the doors off of heavily armored vehicles. He missed a punch to caps head and shattered the concrete ground. He threw Caps shield with enough force and speed that cap had to to just get out of the way instead of catch it and it impaled into the van behind him. He was casually throwing Cap around with it, and with obvious force.

It seems like you don't remember much of the action scenes. You may want to rewatch the movie. If you remembered the movie, you would understand why Cap slaughters here.

Even the first movie gives him amazing feats. Tearing through the hull of a submarine built to withstand fatal amounts of water pressure, tearing the top hatch of a tank off to drop bombs inside, lifting the girls and the motercycle over his head with one hand, (etc...).

Crushing someones head isn't anything to scoff at sure, but it is not anywhere near caps feats. It takes about 520 lbs of force to crush a head, according to the "Journal of Neurosurgery: Pediatric". Do you really believe Captain America couldn't replicate that with one hand if he wanted to?

http://www.nerdist.com/2014/06/the-mountain-meets-the-viper-could-it-happen/

Red Skull did draw blood from Cap. Cap used the shield to block the grenade. Landing on a car doesn't automatically make you spill blood depending on how you land on it. What massive fall?
I rewatched the scene before I posted that. Caps face was not bleeding.

And the 25 story (stated in the same scene) drop he tanked with no damage after the elevator fight scene. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1xmaS2E_qA

TBH I feel asleep near the end of winter soldier. I have to see it and judge. You could be right if Bucky hit Cap over and over in the face with the arm and barely got blood to come out. If that's the case then Kirk is not drawing blood at all.
Thanks for being reasonable.

BW, Hawkeye, etc. has nothing to do with Cap. They never fought him. If they did then they would be outclassed by the strength and durability advantage and not necessarily skill.
My point to that was Cap was talking out SHIELD soldiers left and right. Every major SHIELD character has shown massive amounts of skill, so its unreasonable to assume the rest of them don't have skill. Its obviously a job that's hard to qualify for.

Cap took 13 shield soldiers down with one hand restrained by a magnetic cuff while being tased and beaten.

Batroc does have skilled. But fighting many skilled Klingons (who may be slightly less skilled than Batroc) and owning them like childred is more impressive than not instantly beating Batroc.

I just rewatched that scene. Khan took almost all those Klingons by blasting them with a massive laser cannon. He took out 4-5 Klingons without the laser, using a sword. It's not that impressive.

Vulcans are significantly stronger than humans. They have both superhuman strength and durability. So the spock showing was a little Pissy but still acceptable.
Significantly stronger than normal humans, sure. Captain America is significantly stronger than him or Khan though.

1. Why not? Kahn heals instantly. His blood instantly healed a girl who was dying in a matter of seconds. Going from death to life in seconds is phucking amazing.
Cap has no healing feats. And where was it stated he has a HF? Thus he doesn't have a HF at all. He doesn't instantly heal at all.

Cap is slightly more skilled, basically as strong, not really faster in one on one combat, I have to look at the Bucky feat for durability, and no healing factor to boot (I disagree).

There is no evidence to suggest that girls sickness was instantly gone. He looked at her vitals and her heart rate and vitals were shown to be improving. He condition was getting better, but nothing suggest she was instantly cured. Especially since it takes some time for that the circulate throughout her body. You act like it just instantly cleared everything. It probably just pumped through her heart and started the process. He vitals were still very much on the low end when that scene ended. She wasn't just healed. He started the process.

Kirk also took two weeks to completely heal and come back from the radiation poisoning, as Dr. McCoy stated.

Khans blood is far from instant.

Also, Caps healing factor was stated. I cant remember the exact scene or even movie, but I remember him talking to Nick Fury while he was drinking, and he stated he couldn't even get drunk thanks to his regenerative abilities making it impossible. Feat wise though, I suppose it is a little light.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Oh, hopefully he doesn't take that personally. I usually just reply to and fix posts with false facts. I don't always look at the poster.

And agreed.

quan knows what he does and it's funny as hell to me.
the bad part is that he sometimes is serious and makes very good arguments, but some people have already classified him as a troll so they overlook some of his valid points. i haven't posted here in a while prior to this last week, but quan has good reasoning sometimes...i see it but some others simply can't anymore.

What I find funny is that h1a8 admits that Cap is stronger, faster and more skilled and yet he continues to argue that Cap can't win a single fight.

Khan has Wolverine lvl healing factor.

Didn't you get the memo?

It's kind of sad that h1a8's argument is basically "I know that Cap will be stomping Khan into the ground, but Cap has to get tired at some point and once he does Khan will be able to turn the tables".

The Wolverine level hf should be more applicable to Cap, seeing how Emill Blonsky, who was roided up on the SS serum as well, managed to completely heal all his broken bones, damaged tissue and other fatal injuries within one day.

Originally posted by Epicurus
The Wolverine level hf should be more applicable to Cap, seeing how Emill Blonsky, who was roided up on the SS serum as well, managed to completely heal all his broken bones, damaged tissue and other fatal injuries within one day.
Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. Though to be fair, we haven't yet seen Cap take that kind of damage. Even if they were both given their abilities of the super soldier serum, using a feat from someone else doesn't work. We don't know if the serum worked the same on both of them after all.

Does anyone remember if he was healed up from the gunshots and cuts on his face by the end of the movie?

Er didn't Emill get a less potent version of Cap's serum? I could be wrong. Its been a while since I watched the movie..