WWH vs 25 Things, 25 Colossus, 25 Luke Cages & 25 Sasquatchs

Originally posted by Stoic
Golem also explicitly stated that this is Sasquatch and not Tanaraq, so just go with the OP, and stop making things up as you go along. I did not state what you changed my statement into, so don't make it out like you know what was going on in my mind. If I felt to write what you changed my statement into I would have written it that way. Again Tanaraq is not in this thread, without this even being an issue people immediately ran in, and said that the Hulk gets stomped without realizing what they really faced. Golem may have been under the same thought process. Who can tell?

It should also be known that Tanaraq is not Walter, it is another personality altogether, so there's that as well.

I said that he did not have to resort to that power level to beat the hell out of this field, but if he had to, he could take it up to a point that the field had no chance whatsoever. It seems like if it were up to you, you would lie, and attempt deceit just to see Hulk lose a match that was tailor made for him to win. If this were the Flash, or Zoom you would have no problem talking about statues, speed steals, and going back into the past to make sure none of the team ever got a chance to become heroes. That's just from my perspective. Just leave it as Hulk wins this, without attempting to change the OP.

'That's not Sasquatch'.

'Nor was it EVER truly'.

One and the same. Everytime we see any feats, any character traits of the character you term 'Sasquatch', Tanaraq has also been there. Why are you trying to impose a cap on him? Afraid it's not as clear cut and that Hulk might lose?

I changed your statement because it is exactly what you used to argue with regards to WBH/WWH. That they were one and the same, and damn the forum for trying to impose a cap on him (even though, heh, we did). 'WWH' and 'WBH' are just KMC forum imposed characters, and that we shouldn't handicap their powers.

I see it as no different to Sentry, with the potential of going all Voided out (until we had the mod ruling, of course), or Ghost Rider when he goes all out and the demon takes over (which is probably a better example, as there is no mod ruling).

With regards to Flash/Zoom, even though they are not in the thread, I will just address this point. Everything I have ever said about them (barring my joke posts in threads like the LT vs Flash threads lol), they have done on panel, in a canon comic. And have provided scans where needed. The 'get-out clause', as it were, for them is that because of their speed, and because they aren't really dumb as, say, the Rhino, they'd be able to, once PIS is turned off, be able to try all their different tactics.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He did, but Hulk was still bruising and bloodying him. Holding back shouldn't affect his durability, right?

It does affect his durability. As he amped his durability rose, as well as his strength, speed, healing, and energy projection.

Originally posted by Stoic
It does affect his durability. As he amped his durability rose, as well as his strength, speed, healing, and energy projection.

Hercules can energy project now???

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He did, but Hulk was still bruising and bloodying him. Holding back shouldn't affect his durability, right?

So dealing damage when not fighting back means stomping now? Because you said "stomping" which was a very, very misleading term.

Very misleading 😈

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Unless of course Golem had in his mind the version of Hulk, wearing armour who was stomping Ares/Hercules/the X-men/FF/Iron Man/Skrullbolt/ZomStrange etc? And was brutally beating Sentry so much he reverted back to Bob?

I mean, that's plenty powerful to give a good fight without needing to resort to footsteps destrying the Eastern Seaboard levels, right?

It doesn't however take into account his feats after WWH even though it was the same Hulk and adds a cap to his rage when the moral of the story basically was Hulk doesn't have one. This cap due to the repeated misuse of the term "WWH" (and mod ruling) basically restricts Hulk to at best the level he was at during the Sentry fight as that was his most powerful opponent.

I can understand wanting to create the distinction between Gravage and WBH but the problem is that it was simply an extension of his rage (you know, Hulks main power), not a transformation into a different character. Seperating the two adds a cap that was never there in-story and clearly creates more problems than it solves as evidenced by this thread and many others in the past.

Originally posted by Bentley
So dealing damage when not fighting back means stomping now? Because you said "stomping" which was a very, very misleading term.

Very misleading 😈

Spoken like a Kang-lover.

And yes sneer he stomped him, whilst Hercules offered no resistance.

I bet I could stomp Gandhi in his prime pacifist days.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

'That's not Sasquatch'.

'Nor was it EVER truly'.

One and the same. Everytime we see any feats, any character traits of the character you term 'Sasquatch', Tanaraq has also been there. Why are you trying to impose a cap on him? Afraid it's not as clear cut and that Hulk might lose?

I changed your statement because it is exactly what you used to argue with regards to WBH/WWH. That they were one and the same, and damn the forum for trying to impose a cap on him (even though, heh, we did). 'WWH' and 'WBH' are just KMC forum imposed characters, and that we shouldn't handicap their powers.

I see it as no different to Sentry, with the potential of going all Voided out (until we had the mod ruling, of course), or Ghost Rider when he goes all out and the demon takes over (which is probably a better example, as there is no mod ruling).

With regards to Flash/Zoom, even though they are not in the thread, I will just address this point. Everything I have ever said about them (barring my joke posts in threads like the LT vs Flash threads lol), they have done on panel, in a canon comic. And have provided scans where needed. The 'get-out clause', as it were, for them is that because of their speed, and because they aren't really dumb as, say, the Rhino, they'd be able to, once PIS is turned off, be able to try all their different tactics.

Why don't we wait for Golem to clarify this little situation? He said Sasquatch, he never said Tanaraq. There was a time that Walter never became Tanaraq, and he was always Sasquatch. If he turned into this form every time he had a hard time with someone, why didn't he do this in his fight with Cain? Why didn't he do this when he faced Wendigo when teamed up with the Hulk instead of nearly being killed by Wendigo? Why didn't he do this when he fought the Thing?

Like I said, let's wait until Golem clarifies the situation of what he thought Sasquatch was going to be in this thread, and leave it at that. He may have just meant Walter at his base levels, and not him completely switching personalities. Same body yes, different personality, so it really isn't Sasquatch, but a possessed body, which jumps him up 2 tiers or better. I highly doubt that this was what Golem was aiming for. This isn't even about me getting pissed at you having a different opinion, it's about you trying to change the thread without knowing what was truly on Golem's mind when he made the thread.

And of course the Hulk would lose if all of the Sasquatch turned into Tanaraq. Why would i be afraid of that? If he loses he loses, but then Golem would have made it even more of a spite thread than it first seemed to the first people that chimed in saying that Hulk gets stomped without thinking of the Tanaraq factor.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Sure in this thread I guess. Hulk wouldn't need to reach seaboard breaking levels to win here.

It doesn't however take into account his feats after WWH even though it was the same Hulk and adds a cap to his rage when the moral of the story basically was Hulk doesn't have one. This cap due to the repeated misuse of the term "WWH" (and mod ruling) basically restricts Hulk to at best the level he was at during the Sentry fight as that was his most powerful opponent.

I can understand wanting to create the distinction between Gravage and WBH but the problem is that it was simply an extension of his rage (you know, Hulks main power), not a transformation into a different character. Seperating the two adds a cap that was never there in-story and clearly creates more problems than it solves as evidenced by this thread and many others in the past.

That's a good point, about Sentry being the cap. Why can't we just do that? That would give a nice, tough opponent (I mean, it's not like we're weakening Hulk any.....he was healing from giant holes blown into him by Strange, Skrullbolt's powers, powering through Nova blasts from Johnny, Storm's lightning, breaking Colossus' arms, having the tactical nous to BFR Rockslide/Monet and give Wolverine brain damage etc) and at the same time, it gives a character that can be used in fights.

I mean, stalemating/beating the Sentry (a debate surely for another day) is no mean feat.

Originally posted by Stoic
Why don't we wait for Golem to clarify this little situation? He said Sasquatch, he never said Tanaraq. There was a time that Walter never became Tanaraq, and he was always Sasquatch. If he turned into this form every time he had a hard time with someone, why didn't he do this in his fight with Cain? Why didn't he do this when he faced Wendigo when teamed up with the Hulk instead of nearly being killed by Wendigo? Why didn't he do this when he fought the Thing?

Like I said, let's wait until Golem clarifies the situation of what he thought Sasquatch was going to be in this thread, and leave it at that. He may have just meant Walter at his base levels, and not him completely switching personalities. Same body yes, different personality, so it really isn't Sasquatch, but a possessed body, which jumps him up 2 tiers or better. I highly doubt that this was what Golem was aiming for. This isn't even about me getting pissed at you having a different opinion, it's about you trying to change the thread without knowing what was truly on Golem's mind when he made the thread.

And of course the Hulk would lose if all of the Sasquatch turned into Tanaraq. Why would i be afraid of that? If he loses he loses, but then Golem would have made it even more of a spite thread than it first seemed to the first people that chimed in saying that Hulk gets stomped without thinking of the Tanaraq factor.

OK. you're right, its not for me to say what's in golem's mind.

Although, the endless bickering we've all done has meant that:

Concerning Threads
There have been too many thread starters trying to change stipulations once the thread has advanced. This isn't allowed.

There are two things which can happen:
1) If the thread hasn't gone too far, past the first 2-3 pages, then PM a mod to edit the opening post to make the desired changes.

2) The original thread can be closed and a new thread made.

This is to avoid confusion and arguing in a thread. People will read the opening post more than they'll search through a 10 page thread to see where stipulations were changed.

is in effect, lol.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Sure in this thread I guess. Hulk wouldn't need to reach seaboard breaking levels to win here.

It doesn't however take into account his feats after WWH even though it was the same Hulk and adds a cap to his rage when the moral of the story basically was Hulk doesn't have one. This cap due to the repeated misuse of the term "WWH" (and mod ruling) basically restricts Hulk to at best the level he was at during the Sentry fight as that was his most powerful opponent.

I can understand wanting to create the distinction between Gravage and WBH but the problem is that it was simply an extension of his rage (you know, Hulks main power), not a transformation into a different character. Seperating the two adds a cap that was never there in-story and clearly creates more problems than it solves as evidenced by this thread and many others in the past.

No. The problem is people being too petty to simply debate the characters fairly.

There wouldn't have even needed to be a distinction made if people could act like adults.

No way did it cause more problems than it solved, though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The first thing i'm going to say is this: Character statements are not irrefutable evidence on the board. Too many people exaggerate in comic books for it to be a reliable source.

Maybe they wished to be x1000 stronger/more powerful. Maybe it really was granted, I don't know. What will always have more say is whether they did anything to back it up.

That said, it seems obvious that they were amped, and it doesn't take anything away from Hulk considering his other feats.

Bam! So as I said. Were they amped? Sure. But 1000x? Highly unlikely. That statement wasn't enough to actually justify it

They also didn't do anything afterwards and reverted back to normal size as hulks prisoner. No credibility to the statement

People exaggerate all the time. This is nothing new.

Originally posted by golem370
WWH the one who fought Sentry and everybody else not the one who Red She Hulk and was being attacked by Bi & Wendigo. KM you have shown Sasqutch to be able lift over 100tons twice which imo puts him above class 90 no he can't use Elder gods power to amp beyond standard Sasqutch.

👆

Good lord this is all we needed.

FYI, standard Sasquatch does amp. So just leave him at class 90 and take away his dynamic strength and volia.

Also holy people sasquatch can amp his powers without going Tanaraq and switching personalities. Golem has even put a cap on that. So class 90 Sasquatch, no amping and no going full Tanaraq. End discussion.

Honestly how many times did I say ask the thread maker?

Originally posted by golem370
WWH the one who fought Sentry and everybody else not the one who Red She Hulk and was being attacked by Bi & Wendigo. KM you have shown Sasqutch to be able lift over 100tons twice which imo puts him above class 90 no he can't use Elder gods power to amp beyond standard Sasqutch.

In my Hulk-filled hate, and rage at Stoic, I missed this.

WWH loses

KM you said class 90 I think the levels where he tossed the plane and pull the ship to shore in other words in this thread he would be class 100 low level

Originally posted by golem370
KM you said class 90 I think the levels where he tossed the plane and pull the ship to shore in other words in this thread he would be class 100 low level

Handbooks have him base 90 (was for the longest time only class 70 in the handbooks), but also mention he can amp himself further (and not going all Tanaraq) giving him class 100 strength like catch a 6 story building hitting the ground.

If your not allowing Tanaraq then no amping his strength past class 90. Also again not even talking about him switching personalities. He is his source of dynamic strength

Alight so class 90

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's a good point, about Sentry being the cap. Why can't we just do that? That would give a nice, tough opponent (I mean, it's not like we're weakening Hulk any.....he was healing from giant holes blown into him by Strange, Skrullbolt's powers, powering through Nova blasts from Johnny, Storm's lightning, breaking Colossus' arms, having the tactical nous to BFR Rockslide/Monet and give Wolverine brain damage etc) and at the same time, it gives a character that can be used in fights.

I mean, stalemating/beating the Sentry (a debate surely for another day) is no mean feat.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
It was impressive in the way he did it but we also know he was capable of a lot more, so it's pretty much a nerfed Hulk unless the right stips are used to work around the mod ruling.

So using every version of Hulk is now officially nerfing Hulk 👆

Originally posted by golem370
Alight so class 90

Here's a little background on him. Also just to note snowbird taking Tanaraqs form actually caused her to lose control and be overtaken herself 2-3 times. So even in his new body he still gets amped by Tanaraq and has even lost control to him.