Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes I remember, that time were Satele Shan turned off Malgus lightsaber like a boss... oh wait.
Also, when you put it into perspective that It was one of Sateles greatest showings...
Well, the son could do it easily. (Did he do it to 4 sabers as well?)
The father is twice as powerful as the son.
So.... Yeh, wasn't even remotely close to the Fathers power levels comparing those feats.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
[b]#1 The Ones have greater feats than anybody else.
The Ones demonstrated the ability to easily shift their corporeal form. This shows that they are far more adept at altering their bodies with the force than anyone else.The Ones have demonstrated the ability to be capable of blocking lightsaber blades with their bare hands with almost casual disdain. This is interesting when you compare this to Satele Shan being completely deadlocked by the effort of it and Emperor Vitiate being gravely wounded by a lightsaber to the gut, and otherwise being in danger from lightsaber blades. Point being that nobody has ever been shown capable of blocking lightsaber blades with anywhere near that much ease.
The Son has demonstrated the potency of lightning to be capable of blasting massive holes in mountains. He has also demonstrated enough power with his lightning to overwhelm the Father's defenses, who was again capable of blocking a lightsaber blade with his bare hands with casual disdain. This is a greater potency of lightning than we have seen from anyone else in the entire mythos.
The Son's presence alone causes plantlife to instantly whither, die, and disintegrate, while at the same time generating lethal lightning storms. The Daughter's presence on the other hand caused plantlife to instantly return to a completely barren landscape. This shows that the presence of the Ones can cause more than the presence of anyone else.
The Ones were capable of teleportation without much difficulty, with the Son demonstrating the capability to do this numerous times, most notably when he teleported onto a moving ship to capture Ahsoka.
On that note, the Ones were also capable of concealing their power and presence from others, several times sneaking up on Anakin, Obi-wan, and Ahsoka, most notably Anakin and Obi-wan not sensing the Son on their ship only a few feat away from them when he was capturing Ahsoka.
The Daughter when mortally wounded and dying demonstrated the power to resurrect Ahsoka Tano and purge her body that had literally been infected with the Dark Side. This demonstrates restorative power beyond the likes we've seen in the mythos before.
The Son demonstrated the physical augmentation to be capable of casually blocking Anakin's blows, casually outpacing him, and casually tossing him over his head in melee combat. Given Anakin's already tremendous feats in speed, strength, and skill, the Son's ability to casually outclass him in melee combat is highly impressive.
The Ones have demonstrated great knowledge in their designing of Centerpoint Station, the most powerful superweapon in the Galaxy. They have also seen Anakin's future with great clarity, something that others have only glimpsed into with great confusion and a lack of understanding.
The Son and Daughter were capable of granting force sensitivity to an entire race (the Killiks), giving them unique powers even among force wielders, such as the ability to phase through matter, survive and propel themselves through space with the force, and extract and smelt asteroids with the force for the purpose of building Centerpoint Station. They then telepathically instructed the killiks on how to construct Centerpoint Station. Once this was achieved, the Son and Daughter stripped the power of the force from the entire Killik race. What makes this already extraordinary feat even more impressive, is the fact that they did all this from halfway across the Galaxy. A feat of this magnitude and range has never been achieved by anyone else in the entire mythos.
#2 The Ones have a far longer demonstrated lifespan than anybody else.
Let's look at it this way shall we. The Ones when first appearing in known history around 1,000,000 BBY looked roughly the same. The Father was an old man by this point. Now up for consideration is how time behaves on Mortis. Anakin, Obi-wan, and Ahsoka were on Mortis for a few days, yet they had only been gone from the outside Galaxy for "a moment." If we estimate a moment at a few minutes and roughly estimate a minute to a day time ratio for the outside Galaxy to Mortis, then this suggests that the Father has lived for a billion years after his first appearance as an old man. It took one of them who was already elderly a billion years of time to actually start dying. This suggests that the lifespan of the Ones falls in the billions of years.Comparatively, Vitiate touts that his "life spans millennia," a description not up to par with billions of years, with the Ones demonstrated lifespan being greater than this by a factor of a million to one. Also up for consideration is that, like Vitiate, they too have several immortality accolades.
I'm merely pointing out that suggesting the Ones' inferiority to others based on the fact that the Father was dying of old age at one point is fallacious when the Ones have a demonstrated lifespan far exceeding anyone else's in the mythos by a factor of one million.
#3 The Ones have greater accolades than anybody else.
The Ones are described in TCW as "three beings more powerful with the Force than any Jedi have seen before."
There are a few misconceptions about this accolade I would love to clear up.If you look at Legends and Canon as two separate continuities, as they should be looked at, then the Holocron continuity database falls under Legends as well. And the Holocron continuity database states TCW to be T-Canon. Given that no other quote of equal or higher standing exists to contradict this one, it stands as fact. It should be noted that just because a later source is allowed to be published by Lucas does not make it of higher or equal standing. The database was clear that when it comes to sources that aren't G-Canon, only elements originating from Lucas can be considered G-Canon. Lucas allowing the source to exist and be published is not enough to grant it this standing, and as it remains the only quotes that disagree with this quote exist in sources of lower standing with none of them originating from Lucas. Therefore, this quote is absolute and indisputable.
If for whatever reason you choose to still look at Canon and Legends as being part of the same continuity, then Canon still overwrites Legends, and the Ones' accolade I have provided certainly has higher standing than any quote in the EU that may contradict it.
At one point in Apocalypse, Luke also outright states that the Ones are on a level beyond Sidious, and remember that Luke has known and fought DE Sidious.
Then of course, there's the Father's claim that they can "manipulate the force like no other." The argument was made that the Father was merely manipulating Anakin, however given the Ones' feats and other accolades, this statement is all too accurate.
CONCLUSION
Nobody in Star Wars is omnipotent, omniscient, or everlasting, but the Ones of Mortis are as close as it gets. They are truly and definitively the most powerful characters in the Star Wars mythos. [/B]
👆 This
Originally posted by Emperordmb
#1 The Ones have greater feats than anybody else.
- Darth Nihilus inflicted destruction on planetary scale at one point with his greatest powers.
- Darth Sidious demonstrated the potential to level entire cities and destroy entire fleets with his Force Storm (Wormhole) powers. In-fact, Luke Skywalker boasted that this power can destroy worlds.
- Sith Emperor corrupted the environment of an entire planet (i.e. Dromund Kaas) with his dark side practices.
- Luke Skywalker singlehandedly managed to outgun combined might of many Doval Basins in manipulation of an artificially created blackhole in a struggle between the two sides for the said purpose.
- Lord Fulminiss once destroyed an entire city with his powers.
I am sure that I can find more impressive stuff if I dig deeper.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Ones demonstrated the ability to easily shift their corporeal form. This shows that they are far more adept at altering their bodies with the force than anyone else.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Ones have demonstrated the ability to be capable of blocking lightsaber blades with their bare hands with almost casual disdain. This is interesting when you compare this to Satele Shan being completely deadlocked by the effort of it and Emperor Vitiate being gravely wounded by a lightsaber to the gut, and otherwise being in danger from lightsaber blades. Point being that nobody has ever been shown capable of blocking lightsaber blades with anywhere near that much ease.
Sith Emperor did not attempt to block the lightsaber of his opponent with bare hands.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Son has demonstrated the potency of lightning to be capable of blasting massive holes in mountains. He has also demonstrated enough power with his lightning to overwhelm the Father's defenses, who was again capable of blocking a lightsaber blade with his bare hands with casual disdain. This is a greater potency of lightning than we have seen from anyone else in the entire mythos.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Son's presence alone causes plantlife to instantly whither, die, and disintegrate, while at the same time generating lethal lightning storms. The Daughter's presence on the other hand caused plantlife to instantly return to a completely barren landscape. This shows that the presence of the Ones can cause more than the presence of anyone else.
Sith Emperor corrupted the environment of an entire planet (i.e. Dromund Kaas) with his dark side practices, I am sure that this development had an impact on conditions of flora and fauna in this planet.
Jedi and Sith have demonstrated the capability to conjure storms, fog, floods, earthquakes and influence flora and fauna with esoteric talents and Sith magic throughout history.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Ones were capable of teleportation without much difficulty, with the Son demonstrating the capability to do this numerous times, most notably when he teleported onto a moving ship to capture Ahsoka.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
On that note, the Ones were also capable of concealing their power and presence from others, several times sneaking up on Anakin, Obi-wan, and Ahsoka, most notably Anakin and Obi-wan not sensing the Son on their ship only a few feat away from them when he was capturing Ahsoka.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Daughter when mortally wounded and dying demonstrated the power to resurrect Ahsoka Tano and purge her body that had literally been infected with the Dark Side. This demonstrates restorative power beyond the likes we've seen in the mythos before.
Here:
Some commentators claimed that the ability to survive death had been limited to those with a talent for sorcery and alchemy, and that the use of such practices actually predated the arrival of the Dark Jedi exiles on Korriban. But sorcery had been employed less to extend life than to create illusions, fashion beasts, and resurrect the dead. Powerful adepts were said to have been able to saturate the atmosphere of planets with dark side energy, compel stars to explode, or induce paralysis in crowds, as Exar Kun apparently did to select members of the Republic Senate.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Son demonstrated the physical augmentation to be capable of casually blocking Anakin's blows, casually outpacing him, and casually tossing him over his head in melee combat. Given Anakin's already tremendous feats in speed, strength, and skill, the Son's ability to casually outclass him in melee combat is highly impressive.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Ones have demonstrated great knowledge in their designing of Centerpoint Station, the most powerful superweapon in the Galaxy. They have also seen Anakin's future with great clarity, something that others have only glimpsed into with great confusion and a lack of understanding.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Son and Daughter were capable of granting force sensitivity to an entire race (the Killiks), giving them unique powers even among force wielders, such as the ability to phase through matter, survive and propel themselves through space with the force, and extract and smelt asteroids with the force for the purpose of building Centerpoint Station. They then telepathically instructed the killiks on how to construct Centerpoint Station. Once this was achieved, the Son and Daughter stripped the power of the force from the entire Killik race. What makes this already extraordinary feat even more impressive, is the fact that they did all this from halfway across the Galaxy. A feat of this magnitude and range has never been achieved by anyone else in the entire mythos.
What actually happened is that Son and Daughter joined the hive mind and augmented the powers of Killiks to construct the Centerpoint station. This sounds like BM or similar ability.
Correct me, if I am wrong about this matter. If you are correct, then this is certainly a unique display of power from The Ones and very impressive.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
#2 The Ones have a far longer demonstrated lifespan than anybody else.
Let's look at it this way shall we. The Ones when first appearing in known history around 1,000,000 BBY looked roughly the same. The Father was an old man by this point. Now up for consideration is how time behaves on Mortis. Anakin, Obi-wan, and Ahsoka were on Mortis for a few days, yet they had only been gone from the outside Galaxy for "a moment." If we estimate a moment at a few minutes and roughly estimate a minute to a day time ratio for the outside Galaxy to Mortis, then this suggests that the Father has lived for a billion years after his first appearance as an old man. It took one of them who was already elderly a billion years of time to actually start dying. This suggests that the lifespan of the Ones falls in the billions of years.Comparatively, Vitiate touts that his "life spans millennia," a description not up to par with billions of years, with the Ones demonstrated lifespan being greater than this by a factor of a million to one. Also up for consideration is that, like Vitiate, they too have several immortality accolades.
I'm merely pointing out that suggesting the Ones' inferiority to others based on the fact that the Father was dying of old age at one point is fallacious when the Ones have a demonstrated lifespan far exceeding anyone else's in the mythos by a factor of one million.
The Ones seemingly achieved corporeal immortality but they could perish as apparent from decline of Father with passage of time. I am not sure why Father was in decline.
Anyways, The Ones lasted so long because of circumstances and not just their virtual immortality. They haven't had been in conflicts for a long time and they weren't in danger of being vanquished by external forces.
Comparing The Ones and Sith Emperor in life-span aspect is really idiotic. Sith Emperor also achieved corporeal immorality and could have limitless life-span but he got in to conflicts and his fate is unknown at the moment.
Abeloth also rivals The Ones in lifespan of existence but once she got in to a conflict, she didn't even last some years.
So do not confuse circumstances with capability.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
#3 The Ones have greater accolades than anybody else.
The Ones are described in TCW as "three beings more powerful with the Force than any Jedi have seen before."
There are a few misconceptions about this accolade I would love to clear up.If you look at Legends and Canon as two separate continuities, as they should be looked at, then the Holocron continuity database falls under Legends as well. And the Holocron continuity database states TCW to be T-Canon. Given that no other quote of equal or higher standing exists to contradict this one, it stands as fact. It should be noted that just because a later source is allowed to be published by Lucas does not make it of higher or equal standing. The database was clear that when it comes to sources that aren't G-Canon, only elements originating from Lucas can be considered G-Canon. Lucas allowing the source to exist and be published is not enough to grant it this standing, and as it remains the only quotes that disagree with this quote exist in sources of lower standing with none of them originating from Lucas. Therefore, this quote is absolute and indisputable.
Formerly G-canon and T-canon content have been reclassified as Canon by Disney. While formerly C-canon content have been reclassified as Legends by Disney. Simple.
Legends continuity differs from Canon continuity in ground realities and coverage of content. Events of Canon continuity are facts in Legends continuity as well but Legends continuity is in conflict with Canon continuity in regard to hype factor of characters. According to Legends, Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user ever. Period.
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia could not be published without blessings and support of Lucas Ltd itself as apparent from this disclosure:
This book would not have been possible without the incredible work, creativity, and input of many talented people. The authors would like to thank Alexander Freed, Daniel Erickson, John Posavatz, James Ohlen, Rich Vogel, Ray Muzyka, and Greg Zeschuk of BioWare; the writers of Star Wars: The Old Republic; the entire team at BioWare Austin; Electronic Arts; Lucasfilm and LucasArts' and Helen Murray and her editorial support and design teams at Dorling Kindersley for their guidance, support, and vision.
In-fact, Lucasfilm thanked BioWare for this effort (Sourcebook).
You people need to educate yourself about ground realities of publication of content of Star Wars.
Lucasfilm and LucasArts are well aware of this sourcebook and they approved its publication.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
If for whatever reason you choose to still look at Canon and Legends as being part of the same continuity, then Canon still overwrites Legends, and the Ones' accolade I have provided certainly has higher standing than any quote in the EU that may contradict it.
Star Wars content is continuously evolving and new ground realities emerge with passage of time. This is why certain elements of the content need to be constantly re-visited.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
At one point in Apocalypse, Luke also outright states that the Ones are on a level beyond Sidious, and remember that Luke has known and fought DE Sidious.
I have this book and I did not come across this declaration.
Do not make-up stuff or you will loose credibility very soon.
If you are presenting a new information, make a habit of providing evidence for it.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Then of course, there's the Father's claim that they can "manipulate the force like no other." The argument was made that the Father was merely manipulating Anakin, however given the Ones' feats and other accolades, this statement is all too accurate.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
CONCLUSION
Nobody in Star Wars is omnipotent, omniscient, or everlasting, but the Ones of Mortis are as close as it gets. They are truly and definitively the most powerful characters in the Star Wars mythos.
Ever heard of Bedlam spirits?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LeGenD, I don't understand how you are debating against The Ones when you never even seen the trilogy.
Originally posted by Selenial
He debates Surik when he never played the game.Get used to it.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Ah, so he really hasn't played it then. That explains a lot.
In the nutshell, you don't need to play a game to understand everything better. Research is the key.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDIt is funny that I still have better understanding of Force Drain then you have. Check my response in other thread.
In the nutshell, you don't need to play a game to understand everything better. Research is the key.
I'm on an iPhone out of town, so I can't make as detailed a response as I would like to. Being out of town, I also have no access to Appocalypse or quotes from it, so keep that in mind.
What is important to consider feat wise, is that while you may challenge all of these feats with ones in similar areas that rival these, the ones do possess all of these feats unlike the people you are trying to prove their rivals in certain areas.
As far as the dread masters ability to shift their corporeal forms, correct me if I'm wrong, but did they not just change their physical size, while the Ones transformed their entire forms into something else entirely?
Yep, lightsabers are seemingly a danger to everybody else in a straight fight that the Ones have bypassed.
I do not have Apocalypse with me on vacation, so I cannot give you a quote for the mountain thing, but the Son's lightning overwhelming the defenses of one who has blocked a lightsaber blade with his hands with casual disdain is self-evident from the TCW episodes.
Whether or not this was a passive or active ability is up for debate. It definitely seems more passive to me, but either way it still outshines the examples you have brought up. Vitiate caused lightning storms through rituals, which is not as impressive as doing it passively or through active will. And the examples you provided me of Jedi and Sith doing similar things were not quite as extreme as instantaneously shifting an extreme environment to its polar opposite, and many of these were either done through ritual or not overly impressive (ie fog).
Talzin hasn't teleported as instantaneously as the Ones, and Jadus has not demonstrated as much range with this power, or the ability to do something like teleport onto a moving ship.
Eh the stealth one is quite common, but the Son's ability to not be sensed at all by a third Jedi ten feet away from him when his companions are already in panic, right after teleport in is arguably one of the most impressive displays of this power.
Provide me an example if I'm wrong, but this necromancy from ancient Sith sorcerers seems to be limited to summoning spirits and reanimating corpses. In any case, that is not the only impressive thing about that feat. The Daughter also purge the Dark Side from Ahsoka's body after she had been literally infected with it.
Name one person who could beat Anakin that quickly in melee combat with thy much casual disdain.
The clarity and breadth of their foresight is still highly impressive. Admittedly this was not my strongest point, I was merely demonstrating their knowledge.
I don't have access to Apocalypse right now, but even if it is as you say, the Ones were still capable of augmenting an entire race to a very great extent from halfway accross the Galaxy on a planet meant to cut them off from the rest of the Galaxy. So even if you are correct, this is still a very tremendous feat in both magnitude and range at the same time.
You completely missed the point of the lifespan thing. I was pointing out that the Father's dying after billions of years is not a mark of inferiority to anybody else considering that the Ones have lived longer than anyone else in the mythos by a factor of one million. Vitiate's lifespan has not been tested nearly to the extent that the Ones' have, and they too are considered corporeally immortal. I'm not trying to discredit Vitiate here, I'm merely saying that Using the Ones' lifespans to discredit them in comparison with other characters is almost axiomatically fallacious.
Disney did away with th hierarchy in existing canon, which does not include Legends. There is nothing indicating that the hierarchy no longer exists in Legends. In fact the source that established this hierarchy technically falls under Legends now, so it is fully applicable in the Legends continuity.
As I have previously mentioned, just because a source is added to the lore does not allow it to overwrite other sources of higher standing. Only elements or statements originating from Lucas hold this standing.
Just because a new statement is made doesn't mean older statements are invalid when they are not contradicted by newer statements. In any case, if you choose to consider Canon and Legends part of the same continuity, then as Canon, TCW has a higher standing then SWTOR incontestably. If you look at them as separate, then new statements by Disney have absolutely no bearing on the Legends continuity.
Again, I lack access to Apocalypse right now, but IIRC this quote is from the convo where Luke explains the story of Abeloth and the Ones to everyone else. In any case it'll take more than one misrecalled quote for you to successfully destroy my credibility if that's what you want to stoop to.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Here's what I read: "My opinion >Traya's word" Despite all the evidence to the contrary, you're stuck in the mindset that Drain Force and Drain Life are not the same thing, despite the in mythos support saying otherwise. Drain Force and Force Drain are not the same thing. And nothing supports that is.
# 1: Are The Ones really unstoppable?
Nobody ever claimed the ones are unstoppable. Do they surpass every other Force User in existence? Yes. Do they possess true immortality? Yes. Are immortality and invincibility mutually exclusive? Yes.
Evidence that they surpass every known living Force User:
1. Leland Chee confirmed on his offical Twitter account that the Father is the most powerful Force-wielder in existence.
https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/352618406517809153
Considering the Son and the Daughter rival him in power we can assume they are just beneath him.
Do we have reason to doubt Leland Chee's word? No. Leland Chee is a member of the Lucasfilm Story Group
And according to Leland Chee himself:
Star Wars Canon is now determined by the Lucasfilm Story Group which [Pablo Hidalgo] and I are both a part of.
https://twitter.com/HolocronKeeper/status/420071186232385536
Therefore any statements made my Leland Chee or any other member of the Story Group on matters of Star Wars fiction must be considered canonical, to assume otherwise is to willfully ignore his authority.
2.
My children and I can manipulate the Force like no other, therefore it was necessary to withdraw from the temporal world and live here as anchorites.
--the Father
Do we have reason to doubt the Father? No. The Father had demonstrated potent awareness of powerful beings in the galaxy proven by his knowledge of the Chosen One and his ability to draw him to Mortis using a Jedi distress call. It is also likely that the Father has been waiting and therefore searching for the Chosen One for a very long time.
The Ones have also shown a collective awareness of the Jedi, Sith and the current conflict occuring in the galaxy i.e. the Clone Wars.
And finally considering it is the Father's duty to maintain balance in the Force, he likely therefore maintains an exceptionally strong connection to both the Living and Cosmic Force, which would give him the ability to sense the presence and gauge the ability of powerful beings in the galaxy.
To conclude, it is highly unlikely and baseless to assume that powerful Force wielders existing in the galaxy would escape their notice.
3.
In the mysterious realm of Mortis there exists a trio of beings able to wield the Force in ways no known mortals of the galaxy can.
--Databank
Do we have reason to assume that the term "mortal" leaves room for other Force Users contending with their power? No. Because no know Force Users have every successfully achieved immortality.
NOTE: The definition of immortality is infinite life. Considering the profound longevity of the Ones we have little reason to believe that their claim to immortality is hyperbolic. Furthermore, considering the One's all came into being at the same time, it is highly unlikely that the Father's decline was a result of old age - as the Daughter and Son despite being of the same age remained youthful. With immortality also comes wisdom, and it is suggested that the One's had a superior understanding of the Force in comparison to mortal beings:
...In effect, a higher order of intermediaries, whose powers were beyond the understanding of mortal beings.
--Darth Plaguies.
A possible theory was that the imbalance in the Force was causing the Father to die, considering how deeply tied his is to the Living and Cosmic Force and effectively embodies balance.
Remembering that the Father is immortal, but not invincible.
4.
Mystery on Mortis! Sent to discover the origin of a mysterious distress call, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, and his Padawan Ahsoka Tano are stranded on a distant planet. There, they discover three beings more powerful with the Force than any Jedi have seen before.
--Altar of Mortis
Do we have reason to assume that this introduction is non-canonical? No. According to Lucasfilm "canon is everything on-screen" this is on screen, it is therefore canon.
Noting that the Jedi have witnessed effectively every Force user worth mentioning in relation to the Ones.
# 2: Did Father maintained balance of the Force on cosmic scale?
Yes, this is confirmed and reinforced by multiple sources.
1.
"As the balance of this world crumbles, so shall war escalate in your galaxy. As my son has descended into the dark side, so will the Sith gain strength."
--The Father
Do we have reason to doubt the Father's claim? No. The TCW show gives us no reason to doubt the Father's claim, and one would imagine that if that were there intentions they would have made it explicit. The notion that the Father was attempting to merely intimidate Anakin is baseless speculation as best. The threat of their tremendous power alone would be enough to convince Anakin that it was necessary to contain them.
Furthermore it is the Chosen One that the Father seeks out because he is destined to restore balance to the galaxy. He starts this process by first restoring balance to Mortis itself.
2.
It has been theorized by Jedi and Sith alike that balance between the light and dark sides was actually under the guidance of a group of discoporate entities - the ones called the Celestials, perhaps - who had merged themselves with the Force thousands of generations earlier, and continued to guide the fate of the galaxy ever since.
--Taken from Darth Plagueis
Do we have reason to doubt this theory? No. While a theory it may be it is one confirmed by actual events, the Ones's exist and they are former Celestials. If those claims are true why not the claim that they preside over the balance of the Force itself?
The intention here is irony, the One's exist and everything Plagueis dismisses as likely legend and metaphor is in fact very real.
3.
During the return of Abeloth in 44 ABY, Grand Master Luke Skywalker—the son of Chosen One—read the mission report in the Jedi Archives about his father and his mentor's experiences on Mortis. Combined with the information gathered from the Thuruht hive, Luke realized that his father's refusal to become the new Keeper of Balance had in fact set off a disastrous chain of events. With the death of the Ones, the galaxy began to slide into darkness; the number of conflicts and chaos in the last 65 years were evidence enough of that.
--Wookieepedia - Source: Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse
Do we have reason to doubt Skywalker's conclusions? No. Luke puts a good amount of research into this, consulting with the Killik hive who witnessed the creation of the Ones and have been around for eons.
Nor are we given any reason to doubt that Skywalker is telling is misinformed.
#3 Could Son and Daughter destroy the Universe, if they had left Mortis?
1.
"You cannot imagine what pain it is to have such love for your children and realize they could tear the very fabric of our universe."
Another absolute statement from the Father, which for the same reason we have very little reason to doubt.
Son undoubtedly have (very) impressive command of the Force, officially touted as embodiment of the dark side of the Force and even a god-like being. However, his supposed capability to destroy the Universe is based on a claim of his daddy so far, not concrete evidence.I am astounded as yo how you managed to reach this conclusion. The Son never had to fight Jedi or any mortal beings, when any of the Ones were confronted with by the Jedi they simple turned off their lightsabers and seemed completely unphased. This alone is a a strong indication that they could do nothing to harm them.If a being is capable of destroying the Universe, it should be able to break planets apart with mere thought or a gesture. It wouldn't even need to fight Jedi or living beings in general, everything would be beneath it. It is obvious from available information that Son is no where close to this level of capability.
Nor is there any evidence to suggest he cannot break apart planets. He probably can. Again I am astounded as to how you managed to reach this conclusion, utterly astounded.
2.
The Celestials, of whom the One's are descents, possessed astonishing power that allowed them to shape the very galaxy itself.
Among their accomplishments are:[list][*]The creation of star systems, including the Corellian system and 17 others. They also possessed the power to destroy them.
[*]Were capable of moving planets and stars with tractor beams
[*]Engineered the hyperspace barrier surrounding the galaxy.
[*]Possibly constructed the entire galaxy, if not the universe itself.[/list] To put it simply, they are the architects of the modern galaxy. Now of course these feats were all established using technology, not the Force. But evidence suggests that for the Celestials technology and the Force were not mutually exclusive. For one the Rakata used the Force in all their technology, and they adopted their technology from the Celestials, and secondly Mortis is both a technological and Force based construct. It is a planet immensely strong in the Force enclosed within a massive pyramid and existing in a region detached from the temporal world.
This is an incredible feat, and one that one would assume would be impossible - to bend the very fabric of time itself - with technology alone. But with the Force? Anything is possible.
The point being made here is that for the Celestials the Force and technology were too halves of a whole, so if they can pull of galactic-scale feats with technology Force Wielding Celestials should be able to pull of galactic-scale feats with the Force.
Conclusion: The Ones are not invincible but they are immortal, they do possess the power to influence the balance of the Force itself and they do likely possess the power to tear the fabric of spacetime.
To disregard the wealth of evidence that suggests this as lies and legends is to act in-genuinely and with a biased agenda. Which Legend is clearly guilty of.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDDarth Thanaton has never been touted as one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time, your talking out of your ass.
No, you are actually butt-hurt that I separated facts from myths in this thread for The Ones.Darth Thanaton is one of the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, he is touted as being supremely powerful and having insurmountable strength. Such magnitude of hype is rare for a character to get in an encyclopedic medium. If you have trouble accept Thanaton's bad@ssry, complain to BioWare, not me.
Your anger is not warranted. I am not making stuff up, simply presenting facts.
Legends continuity no longer have an hierarchy as I pointed out to you earlier in another thread. Hierarchy system of canon have been abolished by Disney. Now their are two continuities only; Legends and Canon. Nothing else.You need to educate yourself on how not to be a condescending jackass, seriously.Formerly G-canon and T-canon content have been reclassified as Canon by Disney. While formerly C-canon content have been reclassified as Legends by Disney. Simple.
Legends continuity differs from Canon continuity in ground realities and coverage of content. Events of Canon continuity are facts in Legends continuity as well but Legends continuity is in conflict with Canon continuity in regard to hype factor of characters. According to Legends, Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user ever. Period.
[B]Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
could not be published without blessings and support of Lucas Ltd itself as apparent from this disclosure:This book would not have been possible without the incredible work, creativity, and input of many talented people. The authors would like to thank Alexander Freed, Daniel Erickson, John Posavatz, James Ohlen, Rich Vogel, Ray Muzyka, and Greg Zeschuk of BioWare; the writers of Star Wars: The Old Republic; the entire team at BioWare Austin; Electronic Arts; Lucasfilm and LucasArts' and Helen Murray and her editorial support and design teams at Dorling Kindersley for their guidance, support, and vision.
In-fact, Lucasfilm thanked BioWare for this effort (Sourcebook).
You people need to educate yourself about ground realities of publication of content of Star Wars.
Lucasfilm and LucasArts are well aware of this sourcebook and they approved its publication.[/B]
But anyway, on topic. G-Canon and T-Canon have been merged into simply Canon, but just like the previous canon is absolute and indisputable. So the OP is correct the claim that the Father is more powerful than anyone the Jedi have witnessed is indisputably canon and overrides Legends continuity.
Legends is not exclusive from Canon, it is bound by canon and remains answerable to canon, the reverse is not the case. So one cannot claim that Legends continuity has an agenda on anything that involves omitting/ignoring canon - again they are not mutually exclusive.
Given that you seem to except that, I fail to see your point.
P.S. Legends continuity also includes various statements that tout Sidious to be the most powerful dark sider ever so that is not a fact. In the absence of a retcon you have no grounds to dismiss these claims.
