Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Superman needed an outside amp for a feat of that proportion.Banner would've collapsed under the strain of such a challenge! 😎
Or Banner would have internally amped to pull that ft. That's what Hulk does. If Superman has dynamic strength, there's no need to amp from an outside source if you can do it internally, like Hulk for example or Champion with the gem.
Originally posted by JBL
How on earth you are allowed to post these flat out lies in every thread that has superman in it is just plane incredible. Superman has NEVER had freaking mental blocks that keeps him from accessing his powers and he can drop anything he wants but he has NEVER in his life went from equals to CM,BM to gaining 5x a strength increase over them. You keep bring up OWAW or DOS??? In OWAW, was DD 5x stronger than superman?? Was DOS DD 5x stronger than superman?? Doomsday destroyed probes. In PLENTY of superman comics it is flat out stated that superman has gotten a little bit stronger and that he felt stronger than ever and that was only a small increase. He has been amped and gotten stronger yet never went 5x over his strength on panel and clear as day. He has went all out against WW, BA and plenty others and has NEVER gained a 5x strength increase. There is not a writer, editor, narrator, character be it friend or foe that has ever made such a claim. IT IS YOU that dream up this crap. By your twisted logic, OWAW and DOS doomsday was 5x stronger than superman in the beginning of each story. In one story you claim he himself dropped his BS mental blocks, yet in another someone in another has to teach him to drop them while claiming that he put BS blocks on himself and then forgot or threw away the keys so that he cannot access his true strength that he has shown PLENTY of times ON PANEL and stated as clear as day. CHRIST! 🙁
I guess you didn't read OWAW, or the issue where Batman explains his mental blocks, or DOS. Superman can't will himself to access his full power UNLESS he meditates and receives training (OWAW) or is faced against a severe crisis (DOS).
What you don't understand is that those times you see Superman using all of his might HE IS NOT USING HIS FULL POWER. His subconscious is preventing him. So to his mind he believes he is using ALL OF HIS MIGHT, but in reality he isn't. OWAW explains the whole damn thing.
You are not understanding what a retcon is. It overpowers in other showings in comics, regardless of writer's intentions. Pak retcon that Hulk, since the very beginning, has been holding back.
We have OWAW explicitly explain this to us. We see the difference in Superman's power (beyond 5x).
If Superman never had mental blocks then answer these three questions:
1. Why did OWAW Superman explain this?
2. How did you go from using all of his might (you see his face full of struggle) and not causing DD any pain to killing him in a few moments?
3. How did he go from fighting with a single probe for hours and hitting it with all of his might (again you see Superman's face that he is using all of his might) to simply one shotting them left and right?
Note: HP DD was vastly stronger than Superman. He treated a vastly amped Superman like a child.
Originally posted by carver9
Or Banner would have internally amped to pull that ft. That's what Hulk does. If Superman has dynamic strength, there's no need to amp from an outside source if you can do it internally, like Hulk for example or Champion with the gem.
Superman has dynamic strength but he has a limit. Cutting completely loose caused more than a 5x increase in power. He didn't even put a scratch on those probes with his hv and AFTER he was blowing right threw them with ease.
Originally posted by h1a8Not true at all. In OWAW, mongul jr taught superman how to fight WITHOUT thinking about love ones, he taught superman how to fight for the kill just like DD was fighting.In other words, get your caped butt out there and fight like hell without distractions, kill, tear apart, damn anything else, win at ALL cost. DD did not give a damn, that's what mongul jr taught superman, there were no freaking mental blocks. Where the hell did you get a 5x strength increase? Who said superman got 5x stronger? IT WAS YOU, you said that, nowhere in the comics is that flat out lie mentioned. How the hell does his face tells us hes going all out??Another lie. Instead of fighting like a hero, mongul taught superman to fight like an animal like DD because thats what it would take. Not giving a damn. He did not gain your laughable 5x strength increase, he gained the ability to fight in a manner like DD as shown and explained on panel.
I guess you didn't read OWAW, or the issue where Batman explains his mental blocks, or DOS. Superman can't will himself to access his full power UNLESS he meditates and receives training (OWAW) or is faced against a severe crisis (DOS).What you don't understand is that those times you see Superman using all of his might HE IS NOT USING HIS FULL POWER. His subconscious is preventing him. So to his mind he believes he is using ALL OF HIS MIGHT, but in reality he isn't. OWAW explains the whole damn thing.
You are not understanding what a retcon is. It overpowers in other showings in comics, regardless of writer's intentions. Pak retcon that Hulk, since the very beginning, has been holding back.
We have OWAW explicitly explain this to us. We see the difference in Superman's power (beyond 5x).
If Superman never had mental blocks then answer these three questions:
1. Why did OWAW Superman explain this?
2. How did you go from using all of his might (you see his face full of struggle) and not causing DD any pain to killing him in a few moments?
3. How did he go from fighting with a single probe for hours and hitting it with all of his might (again you see Superman's face that he is using all of his might) to simply one shotting them left and right?
Note: HP DD was vastly stronger than Superman. He treated a vastly amped Superman like a child.
Originally posted by h1a8No, he isn't. You are making up numbers again. Thor's stats increase with warrior's madness far more than five times so you just sunk your own battleship.
Superman is significantly stronger than Thor by feats. If Marvel was his physical equal then Marvel would be stronger by the same margin as well. This means that Marvel could be stronger than Kurse or within the vicinity of him.Now, character statements mean absolutely nothing when on panel evidence contradicts them.
Superman and CM are peers when Superman has his mental blocks on. With those mental blocks Superman can't access his true power and thus he believes he is already using all his might. So his statement isn't quite invalid.
It was retcon that once Superman releases those mental blocks then he is significantly more powers (more than 5x). Read OWAW and DOS.So in normal everyday circumstances
[B] CM IS SUPERMAN'S PHYSICAL PEER
But in the extreme cases where Superman's mental blocks are dropped
SUPERMAN IS SIGNIFICANTLY PHYSICALLY SUPERIOR TO CMWith that said, CM will win because he is in the vicinity of Kurse in strength BUT a shitload faster. His perceptions will see Kurse moving in slow motion. [/B]
Originally posted by quanchi112I said more than 5x, not exactly 5x.
No, he isn't. You are making up numbers again. Thor's stats increase with warrior's madness far more than five times so you just sunk your own battleship.
Going from not causing pain (using all your might) to killing in moments is how many times more power? Going from fighting something for hours and barely causing damage to outright one shotting them with ease is how many times more power? That's right, you will refuse to answer because it would make you lose.
Originally posted by JBL
Not true at all. In OWAW, mongul jr taught superman how to fight WITHOUT thinking about love ones, he taught superman how to fight for the kill just like DD was fighting.In other words, get your caped butt out there and fight like hell without distractions, kill, tear apart, damn anything else, win at ALL cost. DD did not give a damn, that's what mongul jr taught superman, there were no freaking mental blocks. Where the hell did you get a 5x strength increase? Who said superman got 5x stronger? IT WAS YOU, you said that, nowhere in the comics is that flat out lie mentioned. How the hell does his face tells us hes going all out??Another lie. Instead of fighting like a hero, mongul taught superman to fight like an animal like DD because thats what it would take. Not giving a damn. He did not gain your laughable 5x strength increase, he gained the ability to fight in a manner like DD as shown and explained on panel.
Do you actually read the comics? Cause you just proved you didn't.
Superman use the exact same attacks (with all his might) on DD and the probes and didn't do shit until he released his mental blocks later on. OWAW even mentions Superman's mental blocks, Batman mentions them, Lois mentions them, etc.. So why blatantly lie and say it's not true. Unless you didn't read the story.
It wasn't 5x increase but more than 5x increase. Do you understand the difference.
5x =/= more than 5x.
Going from not causing pain to killing in moments is easily above 5x more power output. If not, then you tell me how many times the difference is. Use your common sense.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Thus he doesn't have dynamic strength.
Superman has dynamic strength but he has a limit. Cutting completely loose caused more than a 5x increase in power. He didn't even put a scratch on those probes with his hv and AFTER he was blowing right threw them with ease.
That's dynamic.
Originally posted by h1a8Do you understand that the figures you are trying to sell is your own MADE UP THEORY??? You have zero comic book backing for your claims. Stop with the OWAW crap, superman fought like an animal and not a punk, get it?? Where in that story did it say that superman dropped mental blocks and gained more that 5x his strength?? NOWHERE!!. Where in that story did it say that superman was fighting all out in the beginning?? NOWHERE!! You are making up numbers just like your 50 earth weight crap that has ZERO comic book backing. DC did not come up with those numbers, DC did not give superman dynamic strength, DC did not give superman strength that he cannot access.THAT'S YOU AND HIS OTHER BLIND FANS. Stop with YOUR calculations because you do not know what you are talking about. NO writer would agree with you,your calculations do not match the comics. This is what you want superman to have because you want him to be the best, everything else you have has been shot down, so what do you superman fans have left?? Why this is what you want to say.... He lost because he was holding back, he lost because he cannot access his true strength, he could not do this because of mental blocks, he is equal to these 20 characters until he drop his BS mental blocks... That has now become an excuse, he has by WRITERS been shown to have characters stronger than him and have characters just as strong. Why the hell would they say they are in the same strength class or this character is stronger than superman when they as his creator or writer knew he had hidden strength?? Did superman put mental blocks on the writers and creators to hide his BS hidden strength from them?? Why the hell does he sun amp if he can get more than 5x stronger??? Thats enough to crush plenty of things. Superman does not have hidden strength. his strength is set in stone until he sun amps. Thats why the writers do it. get it now?? WELL OF COURSE YOU DON'T. but we do. 😮💨
I said more than 5x, not exactly 5x.Going from not causing pain (using all your might) to killing in moments is how many times more power? Going from fighting something for hours and barely causing damage to outright one shotting them with ease is how many times more power? That's right, you will refuse to answer because it would make you lose.
Do you actually read the comics? Cause you just proved you didn't.
Superman use the exact same attacks (with all his might) on DD and the probes and didn't do shit until he released his mental blocks later on. OWAW even mentions Superman's mental blocks, Batman mentions them, Lois mentions them, etc.. So why blatantly lie and say it's not true. Unless you didn't read the story.It wasn't 5x increase but more than 5x increase. Do you understand the difference.
5x =/= more than 5x.Going from not causing pain to killing in moments is easily above 5x more power output. If not, then you tell me how many times the difference is. Use your common sense.
Originally posted by JBL
Do you understand that the figures you are trying to sell is your own MADE UP THEORY??? You have zero comic book backing for your claims. Stop with the OWAW crap, superman fought like an animal and not a punk, get it?? Where in that story did it say that superman dropped mental blocks and gained more that 5x his strength?? NOWHERE!!. Where in that story did it say that superman was fighting all out in the beginning?? NOWHERE!! You are making up numbers just like your 50 earth weight crap that has ZERO comic book backing. DC did not come up with those numbers, DC did not give superman dynamic strength, DC did not give superman strength that he cannot access.THAT'S YOU AND HIS OTHER BLIND FANS. Stop with YOUR calculations because you do not know what you are talking about. NO writer would agree with you,your calculations do not match the comics. This is what you want superman to have because you want him to be the best, everything else you have has been shot down, so what do you superman fans have left?? Why this is what you want to say.... He lost because he was holding back, he lost because he cannot access his true strength, he could not do this because of mental blocks, he is equal to these 20 characters until he drop his BS mental blocks... That has now become an excuse, he has by WRITERS been shown to have characters stronger than him and have characters just as strong. Why the hell would they say they are in the same strength class or this character is stronger than superman when they as his creator or writer knew he had hidden strength?? Did superman put mental blocks on the writers and creators to hide his BS hidden strength from them?? Why the hell does he sun amp if he can get more than 5x stronger??? Thats enough to crush plenty of things. Superman does not have hidden strength. his strength is set in stone until he sun amps. Thats why the writers do it. get it now?? WELL OF COURSE YOU DON'T. but we do. 😮💨
If you are going to quote me and respond to me then please address my points and not ignore them. Otherwise, it is trolling. I'll repeat.
I said more than 5x, not exactly 5x.
Going from not causing pain (using all your might) to killing in moments is how many times more power? Going from fighting something for hours and barely causing damage to outright one shotting them with ease is how many times more power? That's right, you will refuse to answer because it would make you lose.
Do you actually read the comics? Cause you just proved you didn't.
Superman use the exact same attacks (with all his might) on DD and the probes and didn't do shit until he released his mental blocks later on. OWAW even mentions Superman's mental blocks, Batman mentions them, Lois mentions them, etc.. So why blatantly lie and say it's not true. Unless you didn't read the story.
It wasn't 5x increase but more than 5x increase. Do you understand the difference.
5x =/= more than 5x.
Going from not causing pain to killing in moments is easily above 5x more power output. If not, then you tell me how many times the difference is. Use your common sense.
Originally posted by h1a8Do i really have to tell you what batman was talking about?? Answer this one question.. Who is stronger, superman or Kurse?
If you are going to quote me and respond to me then please address my points and not ignore them. Otherwise, it is trolling. I'll repeat.I said more than 5x, not exactly 5x.
Going from not causing pain (using all your might) to killing in moments is how many times more power? Going from fighting something for hours and barely causing damage to outright one shotting them with ease is how many times more power? That's right, you will refuse to answer because it would make you lose.
Do you actually read the comics? Cause you just proved you didn't.
Superman use the exact same attacks (with all his might) on DD and the probes and didn't do shit until he released his mental blocks later on. OWAW even mentions Superman's mental blocks, Batman mentions them, Lois mentions them, etc.. So why blatantly lie and say it's not true. Unless you didn't read the story.It wasn't 5x increase but more than 5x increase. Do you understand the difference.
5x =/= more than 5x.Going from not causing pain to killing in moments is easily above 5x more power output. If not, then you tell me how many times the difference is. Use your common sense.
Originally posted by h1a8Thor's is much higher than ten times. He just needs to go all out so it is easier for him to achieve said strength than Superman due to his mental blocks. Thor is stronger based off your logic.
I said more than 5x, not exactly 5x.Going from not causing pain (using all your might) to killing in moments is how many times more power? Going from fighting something for hours and barely causing damage to outright one shotting them with ease is how many times more power? That's right, you will refuse to answer because it would make you lose.
Do you actually read the comics? Cause you just proved you didn't.
Superman use the exact same attacks (with all his might) on DD and the probes and didn't do shit until he released his mental blocks later on. OWAW even mentions Superman's mental blocks, Batman mentions them, Lois mentions them, etc.. So why blatantly lie and say it's not true. Unless you didn't read the story.It wasn't 5x increase but more than 5x increase. Do you understand the difference.
5x =/= more than 5x.Going from not causing pain to killing in moments is easily above 5x more power output. If not, then you tell me how many times the difference is. Use your common sense.
Originally posted by h1a8No, he doesn't since he has a limit. Hulk doesn't. That is true dynamic strength.
Superman has dynamic strength but he has a limit. Cutting completely loose caused more than a 5x increase in power. He didn't even put a scratch on those probes with his hv and AFTER he was blowing right threw them with ease.
That's dynamic.
Those probes weren't impressive and others crushed them as well.
🙂
Originally posted by h1a8
Let's see. CM is fairly stronger than Kurse, insanely faster (this makes the fight spite), has flight and lightning.For all those of you who disagree with me then certainly you can't disagree that Kurse can be bfred very easily into space.
🤣
NOT so much...
KURSE stomps a mud hole in CM
Originally posted by JBL
How on earth you are allowed to post these flat out lies in every thread that has superman in it is just plane incredible. Superman has NEVER had freaking mental blocks that keeps him from accessing his powers and he can drop anything he wants but he has NEVER in his life went from equals to CM,BM to gaining 5x a strength increase over them. You keep bring up OWAW or DOS??? In OWAW, was DD 5x stronger than superman?? Was DOS DD 5x stronger than superman?? Doomsday destroyed probes. In PLENTY of superman comics it is flat out stated that superman has gotten a little bit stronger and that he felt stronger than ever and that was only a small increase. He has been amped and gotten stronger yet never went 5x over his strength on panel and clear as day. He has went all out against WW, BA and plenty others and has NEVER gained a 5x strength increase. There is not a writer, editor, narrator, character be it friend or foe that has ever made such a claim. IT IS YOU that dream up this crap. By your twisted logic, OWAW and DOS doomsday was 5x stronger than superman in the beginning of each story. In one story you claim he himself dropped his BS mental blocks, yet in another someone in another has to teach him to drop them while claiming that he put BS blocks on himself and then forgot or threw away the keys so that he cannot access his true strength that he has shown PLENTY of times ON PANEL and stated as clear as day. CHRIST! 🙁
That's why you made hilariously weak excuses to try and salvage some dignity when I challenged you to the battlezone on Superman having dynamic strength or not. And why you ran away for the rest of the night after asking you a question.
You know what? **** this shit. I challenge you, carter AND Quanny to that. If I lose, I get banned a month? You three lose? No consequences other than the fact that your claims are destroyed.
You accept if they agree?
Good to see that my YEARS of making the irrefutable case for Superman's dynamic strength and power-levels have borne fruit.
as for this thread, Kurse wins normally. Cap isn't on his level physically.
As for the debate at hand, Cap and Superman were normally equals from early post Crisis continuity, and they basically maintained this status when Superman's is in his normal mindset up to Mongul training/OWAW. subsequently, he was increasingly portrayed as above top tier on average.Post IC, he was consistently above top tier/team wrecker level under day to day circumstances.
By the end of Post Crisis continuity, in the New Krypton story-line, he was overpowering 5 Kryptonians at once with single limbs each. Being extremely generous, as 16 year old Kryptonians girls while all out could overpower J'Onn with one hand(which Cap/black Adam absolutely CANNOT do), and two-shot Ultraman)let's assume those Kryptonians were, say Class 90.
To say that Cap, or any conventional high end class 100 character, is a peer of Superman's full displayed relative strength, or anywhere near it, is a pretty pathetic lie at this point.
Originally posted by panthergodWhat writer ( and there are plenty ) has ever said that other class 100 characters are peers in strength to superman UNTIL superman displays his true strength? You think that by beating someone is proof that you are stronger? That's a lie. In a DIRECT contest of STRENGTH, the writers had superman and Captain Marvel EQUALS. When you see words like ... If one of us is stronger, its too small to make a difference or we are too evenly matched coming out of superman's own mouth. The only people that are claiming that superman rises above other class 100 characters when he drops his BS mental blocks ARE HIS FANS. The FACT that superman has sundipped for MANY YEARS is 100% proof that that is his only way to get stronger, barring the rare different color K-NITE or the time eradicator changed the K-NITE that passed through his body and hit superman and superman HIMSELF said that he was stronger than ever, So that BS about him having hidden or true strength is a flat out lie by on-panel writer induced evidence.Superman knows how strong he is and so does his writers and has had him go all out against, WW (no change ) Black Adam (no change ) Against CM to see who was stronger plenty of ways (no change ). When writers and Creators in Interviews state AS PLANE AS DAY that superman is in the SAME strength class as CM and BA and that if anyone thinks that superman is many times stronger than Thor ( fought evenly in the comic by BOTH COMPANYS ) They don't know what they are talking about. But who OPPOSE all that???? Superman fans. Well, certain ones.Their theory is that superman has to be this strong to do this or he has to be this strong to do that, then they add numbers like 5x or claim that he rises above others in his class, BUT when strength is mentioned, he gets stalemated or overpowered by the same ones hes sooooooo far ahead of when he unlocks his FAN given strength or get beaten by stronger characters like Despero.
Good to see that my YEARS of making the irrefutable case for Superman's dynamic strength and power-levels have borne fruit.as for this thread, Kurse wins normally. Cap isn't on his level physically.
As for the debate at hand, Cap and Superman were normally equals from early post Crisis continuity, and they basically maintained this status when Superman's is in his normal mindset up to Mongul training/OWAW. subsequently, he was increasingly portrayed as above top tier on average.Post IC, he was consistently above top tier/team wrecker level under day to day circumstances.
By the end of Post Crisis continuity, in the New Krypton story-line, he was overpowering 5 Kryptonians at once with single limbs each. Being extremely generous, as 16 year old Kryptonians girls while all out could overpower J'Onn with one hand(which Cap/black Adam absolutely CANNOT do), and two-shot Ultraman)let's assume those Kryptonians were, say Class 90.
To say that Cap, or any conventional high end class 100 character, is a peer of Superman's full displayed relative strength, or anywhere near it, is a pretty pathetic lie at this point.