DARTH POWER
Senior Member
Originally posted by Kotor3
Correct he did not lose nor was he losing. I was exaggerating. He was however, not beating Obi wan at this time. Obi wan clearly was fighting toe to toe or on even ground.
Yes he was, in his rage enhanced state, after having plenty of time to replenish himself, whilst Maul had been fighting almost the whole time.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Well we have different definitions of losing. Getting hit or knock down isn’t a lost unless you stay down. Just like you wouldn’t say Maul lost a round when his double bladed saber got cut in half.
Yes we have very different versions of winning. You don't have to kill or even KO your opponent to win the fight. You just have to leave them in a position where they are no longer capable of fighting, whilst you are.
Maul's Saber staff being cut did not stop him from carrying on the fight. Whilst Kenobi was completely disarmed from his or any weapon, and left hanging off a platform trying desperately not to fall. He was in no position to carry on the fight ergo he lost, and was only saved by Qui-Gon continuing the fight solo.
And let's not forget Maul was fighting 2 opponents when he landed that kick on Kenobi. Hence his superiority in combat over Kenobi alone was quite vast.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Force push is a force attack, whether you wish to say standard or non-standard. Same settings he beats Qui Gon purely on his skills with the saber. Obi Wan he doesn’t but uses a force attack, why because he is not getting the better of Obi wan purely using his skills with a saber.
Yes he does beat Qui-Gon purely on skill, and Qui-Gon was > Obi-Wan at the time.
Obi-Wan's guard was down for a Force attack, so Maul hit him with the Force. Honestly it's not much different to Obi-Wan's guard being down to a kick when Maul defeated him earlier. Or Qui-Gon's guard being down to a physical attack just before Maul stabbed him.
Your opponent usually is caught off-guard when you defeat them. It's just part and parcel of combat. Like I said Had Obi-Wan intercepted the Force push (e.g. what happened between Anakin and Obi-Wan in ROTS) then it would be a case of - Well they were equal in combat skills but Maul overpowered him in the Force. But that's not what happened. Kenobi was outfought and outskilled same as Qui-Gon, except Obi-Wan put up a better fight being in a rage enhanced state.
Oh and btw Maul forces Kenobi back in the Saber Lock right before he force pushed him. So it was his Saber skills that lead to Obi-Wan being caught off guard.
Originally posted by Kotor3
I am not saying that Maul wasn’t the more powerful or experience fighter. It is clear that Obi wan at this stage of the fight was no longer a push over for Maul.
Yeah of course. He put up a good fight. (And actually sliced Maul in the end as well Lol). But that was due to circumstance. Kenobi being Rage enhanced, Maul having fought a fair bit longer than Kenobi had.
On an ordinary day/fight though, Maul would have battered Kenobi hard in that time period.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Well if I am correct we are not talking about that version of Maul. ROTJ Luke is not given enough credit.
You are correct. But my point is if he was really almost a match for Maul at that time, then he should have easily battered Maul with another 10+ years of training. Especially a Maul who was completely out of practice.
Originally posted by Kotor3
I am not saying it is not possible for Maul to win, but Luke definitely can and has a chance of taking out this version of Maul.
It's more than possible for Maul to win. He will win. Question is if Luke has a chance, and I seriously doubt it. Because he was still just a novice, only half trained according to Lucas in the ROTJ audio commentary.
I used to think ROTJ Luke was a lot tougher than people made out as well. I mean he defeated Vader after all. And I'm sure that was the original intention of the film. But Lucas seems to have changed his mind since.