Ozymandias vs Captain America

Str: Cap. His picking up the multi-ton iron girder in WS is arguably greater than Ozy kicking a small human like a soccer ball.

Int: Ozy by a landslide. I don't think this needs to be expanded on.

Wis: I'm giving this one equally to both when it comes to using knowledge and applying it to a fight situation.

Dex: Ozy. His ability to catch a thrown knife and bullet puts his above Cap. Add the ease he parried both Rorz and Owl's attacks, it's evident.

Con: Cap. The amount of damage Cap endured is significantly greater than Ozy.

Cha: This one goes solidly to Cap. His ability to inspire others to fight in WW2 and to a degree in Avengers puts them over Ozy.

Cap's taking this one. His damage-soak will pull him through and counter Ozy's advantages in speed and skill. Ozy has above-human durability himself, but blows from Nite Owl were bruising him; Cap is stronger than Nite Owl.

As for the "stamina" issue, we have on screen evidence of Cap having superhuman stamina. Ozy, it's unknown.

Cap wins every time after a good fight.

How many times after a bad fight?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am not trying to downplay anyone. If you had used his bullet catching feat I would have raised no objections whatsoever. That is a legitimate superhuman feat, showcasing above human speed and reaction times.

I'm postive it is slower than the lobby aim-dodging stuff. 🙂

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The only one here guilty of fanboyism is you.

And yet, I'm not downplaying anyone's feats. 🙂

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You claim that Cap can't touch Ozy and that Ozy will stomp him, yet you haven't even watched the 2nd Cap film.

And yet, even you claim his bullet grab puts him comfortably in superhuman speed and reaction territory.

😐

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The fact is, this is a close battle. Ozy is superhuman, based on showings. I am not arguing against that. Ozy might have a speed advantage, and Steve a bit of a strength advantage, but both are mostly negligible. It comes down to damage soak IMO. I just think Steve's hits will start taking a heavier toll more quickly than Ozy's would. That is the only reason I think Steve will win.

This is probably the least biased thing I've read in this thread from a Cap supporter.

Well done.

Shame on you DDM for not seeing TWS...shame shame shimmy shame🙂

Originally posted by Robtard
Str: Cap. His picking up the multi-ton iron girder in WS is arguably greater than Ozy kicking a small human like a soccer ball.

Int: Ozy by a landslide. I don't think this needs to be expanded on.

Wis: I'm giving this one equally to both when it comes to using knowledge and applying it to a fight situation.

Dex: Ozy. His ability to catch a thrown knife and bullet puts his above Cap. Add the ease he parried both Rorz and Owl's attacks, it's evident.

Con: Cap. The amount of damage Cap endured is significantly greater than Ozy.

Cha: This one goes solidly to Cap. His ability to inspire others to fight in WW2 and to a degree in Avengers puts them over Ozy.

Cap's taking this one. His damage-soak will pull him through and counter Ozy's advantages in speed and skill. Ozy has above-human durability himself, but blows from Nite Owl were bruising him; Cap is stronger than Nite Owl.

As for the "stamina" issue, we have on screen evidence of Cap having superhuman stamina. Ozy, it's unknown.

Strength: Captain but not by much. If I wanted to, I could use the exaggerated Rorschach kick to show that Ozy is dozens of times stronger than peak human: I won't do that because the feat is clearly just stylized action violence and not intended to portray Ozymandias as being able to produce 10+ tonne-force with one leg.

Intelligence: Ozymandias. He is comparable to Reed Richards in that they both built super-advanced Sci-Fi stuff. Ozy also seems to be a psychopath which give him an advantage in the wits department in a fight.

Dexterity: Ozymandias but from what others are saying of Captain America in the second film, Captain gets a dexterity amp. If it is much much better, then Ozy does not have this category by a landslide.

Constitution: You're probably correct, based on feats. However, we have nothing that indicates Ozy was pushed to his limits. If the fact that Ozymandias' leg did not explode into hamburger when he kicked Rorschach, then that can indicate Ozy has stupid high durability. But this is not about durability, this is about constitution which is how much damage he can take and keep going: Captain by not by much: Ozymandias also wears armor.

Charisma: has no bearing on this fight because it is 1v1. lol Captain takes this.

Stamina: Ozy is never gassed at any point despite an extended fight scene with Comedian and taking on Rorchach and Night Owl. Edge has got to go to Captain, though, because he runs for quite sometime without becoming gassed. I don't see any of the top-tier fighters in any of the movies becoming gassed, however. We can compare Night Owl's and Yellow-t*ts to Captain: they fought prison peeps for quite a long time. Never once did they appear gassed. Ozy is clearly their physical superior.

Speed: Ozymandias but others disagree.

Martial Arts Ability: Ozymandias by a landslide but others my disagree.

X-Factor: Ozymandias is far more cunning than Captain. He could pull out a win even if the odds were heavily against him.

Overall: Ozymandias has the strength, speed, and skill to outclass Captain and make Captain America look like a kid in a H2H fight. 🙂

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Shame on you DDM for not seeing TWS...shame shame shimmy shame🙂

I tried to see it but it did not work out that one Saturday. Before I knew it, it was out of the theater. I still have to wait until September before I can see it because I refuse to pirate movies and such.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm postive it is slower than the lobby aim-dodging stuff. 🙂

Personally, to me, catching a bullet at virtually point blank range is much more impressive than "dodging" bullets from a guy he not only hired himself, but has the aim of your average Imperial Stormtrooper. And that is if the guy ever had any real intention of trying to hit Ozy.

Originally posted by dadudemon

And yet, I'm not downplaying anyone's feats. 🙂

I haven't downplayed anyone's feats. I simply questioned the validity of the assassin scene feat, considering its context within the film. You, on the other hand, are the only one in this thread making claims about the outcome, without having actually seen all the source material.

Originally posted by dadudemon

And yet, even you claim his bullet grab puts him comfortably in superhuman speed and reaction territory.

😐

And Captain America is also superhuman. What's your point?

Originally posted by dadudemon

This is probably the least biased thing I've read in this thread from a Cap supporter.

Well done.

I support Captain America in this thread purely based on my interpretation of his onscreen feats, compared to those of Ozymandias. Nothing more, nothing less.

Because, to make this clear, I like Watchmen a lot more than I like 90% of the Marvel movies that come out. Most of them come across as far too aimed at younger audiences. And I don't even particularly like Captain America either. I find his perfect wonderboy image somewhat cheesy. Winter Soldier is way cooler.

The only Avengers I really like are Iron Man (because of his witty, wise ass moments) and Black Widow (for reasons most heterosexual males will understand... yes I said it 😛 ).

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And Captain America is also superhuman. What's your point?

Yes yes...superhuman. But not necessarily superhuman in reaction time and speed. 🙂

That was the point. 😉

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes yes...superhuman. But not necessarily superhuman in reaction time and speed. 🙂

That was the point. 😉

Based on his feats in the 2nd Cap movie (and Winter Soldier's, who is at best his equal, in terms of stats), he is above human in both those categories as well. Like I said, Ozy might have a speed advantage, but Steve seems to have the strength edge. But neither, based on all their feats, is so far above the other that it will tip the match in their favour. Steve just has more impressive damage soak/durability feats which, unless we apply a no limits fallacy to Ozy, trumps Adrian's. Which is why I give Steve the win.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Based on his feats in the 2nd Cap movie (and Winter Soldier's, who is at best his equal, in terms of stats), he is above human in both those categories as well.

Like I told Nemebro, I reserve the right to change my opinion once I see the film in September.

Someone else in this thread (was it you?) said they would agree with me had they only seen the first two films with Cap in it, too. So that tells me that my opinion is not necessarily biased/wrong, it's just incomplete as I don't have all the facts to make an informed decision.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Like I told Nemebro, I reserve the right to change my opinion once I see the film in September.

Someone else in this thread (was it you?) said they would agree with me had they only seen the first two films with Cap in it, too. So that tells me that my opinion is not necessarily biased/wrong, it's just incomplete as I don't have all the facts to make an informed decision.

The second Cap movie is way better than the first, but it doesn't make Cap more powerful. Cap was already pretty strong in the first one. The fight choreography is a thousand times better though (Jason Bourne type choreography), so Cap comes off as more skilled. Not any faster or stronger.

Winter Soldiers hits sent cap flying 10 feat at the most. Ozy was hitting people and sending them off 30 feat. He was able to jump a 40 (about 10-15 feat upwards) feat across the room. He threw a 225 pound man through some kind of reinforced glass (which you'd have to "step on the gas to crack" according to the movie). He caught a bullet after it was fired.

He is still much faster than Cap. Yes, Cap can shrug off a hit or two of his like he did with Winter Soldier, but he would be getting peppered with hits, and Winter Soldiers hits were wearing him down, though he took them like a champ. Ozy does have to work for it slightly, but he takes it. Cap showed nothing speed wise that puts him above Rorschach or Nite Owl II. Definitely nothing that puts him anywhere near bullet time.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
I've seen the second Cap movie. I believe Ozy still wins.

The second Cap movie is way better than the first, but it doesn't make Cap more powerful. Cap was already pretty strong in the first one. The fight choreography is a thousand times better though (Jason Bourne type choreography), so Cap comes off as more skilled. Not any faster or stronger.

I disagree. His strength, agility, reaction times, durability, skill etc. all look more impressive in the 2nd film. Based on his portrayal in Avengers and the first Cap film, there is no way I would have believed him able do all those crazy flips and things he did to take out the jet, or lift that huge ass piece of metal ramp off Bucky (after he was shot multiple times, and did it mostly with one arm, as the other was also gripping his shield), tanking several bullets, falls from extreme heights etc. They made all his abilities appear better, not just his raw fighting skill.

Originally posted by Arachnid1

Winter Soldiers hits sent cap flying 10 feat at the most. Ozy was hitting people and sending them off 30 feat. He was able to jump a 40 (about 10-15 feat upwards) feat across the room. He threw a 225 pound man through some kind of reinforced glass (which you'd have to "step on the gas to crack" according to the movie). He caught a bullet after it was fired.

Winter Soldier also sent a guy on the one SHIELD carrier flying a good 20-25 feet in distance and 15 feet up in the air (and the guy was still flying upwards) before he crashed into one of the jets. And Cap fairly easily punched through the reinforced glass of a submarine. Then threw the guy out of the water without anything to brace himself against for support. Also, the acrobatic flips he did on the jet in WS (he was basically doing moves not even a world class gymnast could do in a gymnasium, and he was doing it on a moving vehicle, while systematically taking it apart in the process). And this was after he had just tanked a multi-storey fall.

Originally posted by Arachnid1

He is still much faster than Cap. Yes, Cap can shrug off a hit or two of his like he did with Winter Soldier, but he would be getting peppered with hits, and Winter Soldiers hits were wearing him down, though he took them like a champ. Ozy does have to work for it slightly, but he takes it. Cap showed nothing speed wise that puts him above Rorschach or Nite Owl II. Definitely nothing that puts him anywhere near bullet time.

A hit or two? He fought Winter Soldier for an extended period of time, he got stabbed, shot multiple times, and then had Bucky wail on him without fighting back. He also fought 10 trained agents in an enclosed space at the same time (many of them armed with shock batons, and some of the fight he did with one arm cuffed to the elevator), and he dropped most of them with 1 or 2 hits. His speed, while fighting and dodging multiple opponents, is very similar to the speed displayed by Ozy while fighting Rorschach and Nite Owl. If you actually compare the speed Cap and Bucky fight with the speed all the Watchmen fight, it is actually very similar.

As for reactions, though not quite bullet catching, his motorcycle feat before taking down the jet is actually really impressive, in terms of reaction times. He was riding directly at the jet as it literally unloaded a friggin' minigun at him. And he was able to react and steer the vehicle to dodge all the fire, while charging directly at the jet.

cap fought loki who's a legit superhuman (bulletproof, took hawkeye's bomb to the face and survived that hulk attack) and the damage from the beating ozymandias took from niteowl when he thought he deserved the beating was comparable to the damage cap suffered from winter soldier's bionic left fist, which can bust cars up, catch the shield and easily smash pavement. cap took several shots from that fist without resistance and he's fast enough to touch oxymanias

cap can take anything ozy throws at him and more. chitauri blasts cant stop him. huge falls cant stop him. tanked hits from buckys arm. red skull dented his former metal shield. tanked his hits. ozy aint stopin this man. better showings gives him the win here. that quinjet feat could not be replicated by ozy. cap has the edge in agility like it or not. ozy is fast but cap is just as lethal.

After watching Winter Soldier, I think Captain's skills have greatly improved.

After going back over some feats from both characters, I think Ozymandias takes a majority against Captain America. 6 out of 10, Captain America.

1. Strength - Ozymandias, with a comfortable margin but not too much.
2. Speed - Ozymandias by a comfortable margin.
3. Intelligence - Ozymandias by a comfortable margin.
4. Durability - Captain by a comfortable margin.
5. Martial Arts Ability - About the same.
6. Heart - Definitely Captain.

I'm just wondering when the Captain America wanking will end, though.

Originally posted by dadudemon
After watching Winter Soldier, I think Captain's skills have greatly improved.

After going back over some feats from both characters, I think Ozymandias takes a majority against Captain America. 6 out of 10, Captain America.

1. Strength - Ozymandias, with a comfortable margin but not too much.
2. Speed - Ozymandias by a comfortable margin.
3. Intelligence - Ozymandias by a comfortable margin.
4. Durability - Captain by a comfortable margin.
5. Martial Arts Ability - About the same.
6. Heart - Definitely Captain.

I'm just wondering when the Captain America wanking will end, though.

You gave it 50/50 just two days ago after watching TWS, what changed since then to make it 6/10 now?

You.

😍

Originally posted by dadudemon
After watching Winter Soldier, I think Captain's skills have greatly improved.

After going back over some feats from both characters, I think Ozymandias takes a majority against Captain America. 6 out of 10, Captain America.

1. Strength - Ozymandias, with a comfortable margin but not too much.
2. Speed - Ozymandias by a comfortable margin.
3. Intelligence - Ozymandias by a comfortable margin.
4. Durability - Captain by a comfortable margin.
5. Martial Arts Ability - About the same.
6. Heart - Definitely Captain.

I'm just wondering when the Captain America wanking will end, though.

Can you explain how you came to the conclusion as to Oxy being stronger than cap?

Also how is Oxy faster than Cap by a wide margin? The bullet thing? you mean his reaction to him knowing what was coming with plenty of time to time his dodge?
Ozy is fast. super human fast, but so is cap. Caps fight with another super human proved this in the winter soldier film. The cap 2 winter soldier fight appeared to have faster combat speed than the Ozy vs. 2 regular skilled humans, or any of his movie fights.