Sentry vs Starbrand

Originally posted by carver9
I know what I think of Thanos and Sentry but I'm asking YOU what do you think of the two. Stop changing the subject.

To be honest now we are ruining the thread for other people on this forum so hopefully you listen to reason and stop quick reading my statements and making generalisations. You said can Sentry defeat Thanos now. Implying that he couldn't when you yourself stated that he could. I was putting you right on a false claim you made.

I have stayed on topic on this thread only once you brought up other characters did its stray off topic so again could you kindly stop berating me.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I will admit I am now becoming fed up with this. It's like talking to a brick wall. Did you or did you not use the example of the worm? If you did you are lowballing, my examples were on the basis of a counterargument. Like I said I am not that bad of a debater to that I would go that low to make my point.

Ah so it's a surprise attack when it hit Hulk, here is my counterargument Sentry was surprised when worm hit him so now you can't use that example (Sentry said Oh so you can't argue) and I wont argue over it being PIS again we have done that to death now. Sounds liek you covering up for Hulks failures again.

And I never said because he took out Thor that he could kill the team. I actually gave evidence via feats why he would win. Please for the 2nd time quit lowballing so we can debate properly.

I brought up the worm one time and it offended you to the point that you brought it into 4 of your posts. I don't care about the worm scene. I brought it up once, you made your point and I left it alone but it seems like my words are just stuck in that brain of yours. Move past that. I simply said, Sentry even though he's powerful has not shown me anything that makes me think he could take out this team. Now look back through our posts and see who is doing the lowballing. Lowballer.

What evidence did you give?

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
To be honest now we are ruining the thread for other people on this forum so hopefully you listen to reason and stop quick reading my statements and making generalisations. You said can Sentry defeat Thanos now. Implying that he couldn't when you yourself stated that he could. I was putting you right on a false claim you made.

I have stayed on topic on this thread only once you brought up other characters did its stray off topic so again could you kindly stop berating me.

We can get back on topic but one question, when did I say Sentry couldn't defeat Thanos? Are you putting words in my mouth, friend? I think the worm comment has drove you crazy.

Originally posted by carver9
I brought up the worm one time and it offended you to the point that you brought it into 4 of your posts. I don't care about the worm scene. I brought it up once, you made your point and I left it alone but it seems like my words are just stuck in that brain of yours. Move past that. I simply said, Sentry even though he's powerful has not shown me anything that makes me think he could take out this team. Now look back through our posts and see who is doing the lowballing. Lowballer.

What evidence did you give?

You brought up the worm and Wasp as a reason for why Sentry wouldn't be able to win. I mentioned it every time because for your argument it is a key premise otherwise you have no poor feats to pick from to back up your claims.

Before I engage your last point, I will show cases of you lowballing.

"Beating up Thor and holding up the Celestials? Not enough to beat a team of that caliber. Not nearly enough imo."

You don't mention what holding the celestial meant. It meant he equalled the power of every hero on Earth. Including Hulk and Hyperion.

"Thor will have help here. Thor, Wasp, and a worm took out Sentry."

Need I explain this? Or shall I bring up a case where Hulk is beaten by an inferior being and use that?

"so is Sentry more powerful than Thanos as well?"

Just thought I would include this for the extra hypocrisy.

"I know what I think of Thanos and Sentry but I'm asking YOU what do you think of the two. Stop changing the subject."

As soon as I call you out you change the subject by accusing me of something.

Originally posted by carver9
We can get back on topic but one question, when did I say Sentry couldn't defeat Thanos? Are you putting words in my mouth, friend? I think the worm comment has drove you crazy.

Again I never said that you said Sentry couldn't defeat Thanos you said this.

http://imgur.com/NJUakxY

Which by the wording implies that Sentry would struggle to defeat him, note I never accused you of saying he couldn't defeat him. Like you accused me of. You have brought up the topic of me lying about a Sentry vs Thanos in a thread titled Sentry vs Starbrand.

And don't worry as much as you can be rude and insult me I will assure you I wont get schizophrenia from your worm comment. It may irritate me because it is a pile of pants but I wont go bonkers over it.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
You brought up the worm and Wasp as a reason for why Sentry wouldn't be able to win. I mentioned it every time because for your argument it is a key premise otherwise you have no poor feats to pick from to back up your claims.

Before I engage your last point, I will show cases of you lowballing.

"Beating up Thor and holding up the Celestials? Not enough to beat a team of that caliber. Not nearly enough imo."

You don't mention what holding the celestial meant. It meant he equalled the power of every hero on Earth. Including Hulk and Hyperion.

"Thor will have help here. Thor, Wasp, and a worm took out Sentry."

Need I explain this? Or shall I bring up a case where Hulk is beaten by an inferior being and use that?

"so is Sentry more powerful than Thanos as well?"

Just thought I would include this for the extra hypocrisy.

"I know what I think of Thanos and Sentry but I'm asking YOU what do you think of the two. Stop changing the subject."

As soon as I call you out you change the subject by accusing me of something.

Out of everything you've said, the ONLY thing you can accuse of lowballing is the worm ft. Me bringing up Sentry holding up a part of Exitar as not being enough to beat this team isn't lowballing, crazy. It isn't enough (we don't even know how much he held up. Remember, Rogue was holding it off by herself before he came into the picture so he was probably just holding up the left overs...who knows).

Lol...me asking you about Thanos and Sentry isn't lowballing. Yeah, you're hurt about my worm comment. It's going to be ok.

Again, why are you bringing up Hulk and an inferior being? Lol, is the worm comment still on your mind? If we are going to keep talking about Sentry and a worm (that I brought up during My FIRST POST), then we need to stop the debating right here and now. If you bring up that worm one more time, I'm done with this. You can win.

Like I've stated, Sentry hasn't done enough to warrant be could stalemate this team. Hyperion tanking Universal attacks along with having one of the best strength fts in existence doesn't mean he can beat this team either.

Again, me thinking this doesn't mean I am lowballing either Sentry or Hyperion. Taking out a single Herald isn't enough. I see you keep avoiding my question though.

Originally posted by carver9
We can get back on topic but one question, when did I say Sentry couldn't defeat Thanos? Are you putting words in my mouth, friend? I think the worm comment has drove you crazy.

This comment made me laugh, it truly made me laugh out loud.

"I think the worm comment has drove you crayz"

Originally posted by carver9
Out of everything you've said, the ONLY thing you can accuse of lowballing is the worm ft. Me bringing up Sentry holding up a part of Exitar as not being enough to beat this team isn't lowballing, crazy. It isn't enough (we don't even know how much he held up. Remember, Rogue was holding it off by herself before he came into the picture so he was probably just holding up the left overs...who knows).

Lol...me asking you about Thanos and Sentry isn't lowballing. Yeah, you're hurt about my worm comment. It's going to be ok.

Again, why are you bringing up Hulk and an inferior being? Lol, is the worm comment still on your mind? If we are going to keep talking about Sentry and a worm (that I brought up during My FIRST POST), then we need to stop the debating right here and now. If you bring up that worm one more time, I'm done with this. You can win.

Like I've stated, Sentry hasn't done enough to warrant be could stalemate this team. Hyperion tanking Universal attacks along with having one of the best strength fts in existence doesn't mean he can beat this team either.

Again, me thinking this doesn't mean I am lowballing either Sentry or Hyperion. Taking out a single Herald isn't enough. I see you keep avoiding my question though.

Look carver just because I questioned part of your argument and you don't like it is no need to throw a hissy fit and say you're done. Rogue wasn't holding it up by herself, she said herself that it wasn't enough. That's why Stark said the celestial is still descending. Lets leave that now as that is straying way from the debate.

On you talking about him holding up the celestial here is my point. Rogue absorbed the power of every hero on Earth. And it wasn't enough and when Sentry came along he managed to stop it combined with Rogue. So he either equalled the heroes power or exceeded it. If he didn't equal the power of every hero then Exitar would've sunk like the Titanic into the Earths crust. You can't argue that (hopefully we agree on this one point here).

For the 3rd part of your comment,

You said this.

http://imgur.com/NJUakxY

Which contradicts what you said (whether you said it by accident or not I can't say) as I am not carver9.

The next part we have already done to death and you wont admit to lowballing so I will just let anybody else viewing this to decide (I hope you at least agree with that)

The next part we again contradict, I believe Sentry has done enough to show he can win against this team or at least do more than stalemate. The problem with your Hyperion point is that he hasn't had over 10 years of high end feats Sentry has had tremendous high feats. So going on feats current Hyperion couldn't take on that team, he has not enough feats to back it up.

Finally you say defeating one Herald (if you are speaking of Thor) he is a High Herald, Sentry has also defeated Ultron (here I will openly admit I am not sure whether it was secondary or primary adamantium), he has stalemated WWH (we should definitely leave this for another thread as that debate will go on), he has out-moleculed molecule man, also remember his Genis-Vell feat when it was stated he was still holding back . I could go on and on and on but if I did this whole board would be covered in writing.

If you want to leave this thread by all means do so. I am trying to debate you, every time you have accused me of changing the subject when I answer your question or on one occasion you have insulted me. Up to you now, everyone on KMC can see this thread and they will make their mind up who is correct.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Look carver just because I questioned part of your argument and you don't like it is no need to throw a hissy fit and say you're done. Rogue wasn't holding it up by herself, she said herself that it wasn't enough. That's why Stark said the celestial is still descending. Lets leave that now as that is straying way from the debate.

On you talking about him holding up the celestial here is my point. Rogue absorbed the power of every hero on Earth. And it wasn't enough and when Sentry came along he managed to stop it combined with Rogue. So he either equalled the heroes power or exceeded it. If he didn't equal the power of every hero then Exitar would've sunk like the Titanic into the Earths crust. You can't argue that (hopefully we agree on this one point here).

For the 3rd part of your comment,

You said this.

http://imgur.com/NJUakxY

Which contradicts what you said (whether you said it by accident or not I can't say) as I am not carver9.

The next part we have already done to death and you wont admit to lowballing so I will just let anybody else viewing this to decide (I hope you at least agree with that)

The next part we again contradict, I believe Sentry has done enough to show he can win against this team or at least do more than stalemate. The problem with your Hyperion point is that he hasn't had over 10 years of high end feats Sentry has had tremendous high feats. So going on feats current Hyperion couldn't take on that team, he has not enough feats to back it up.

Finally you say defeating one Herald (if you are speaking of Thor) he is a High Herald, Sentry has also defeated Ultron (here I will openly admit I am not sure whether it was secondary or primary adamantium), he has stalemated WWH (we should definitely leave this for another thread as that debate will go on), he has out-moleculed molecule man, also remember his Genis-Vell feat when it was stated he was still holding back . I could go on and on and on but if I did this whole board would be covered in writing.

If you want to leave this thread by all means do so. I am trying to debate you, every time you have accused me of changing the subject when I answer your question or on one occasion you have insulted me. Up to you now, everyone on KMC can see this thread and they will make their mind up who is correct.

No hiss fits being thrown here. If I didn't bring up the Sentry and worm scene after your comment, wouldn't you consider that a concession (in regards to the worm) if I didn't even take the time to defend myself on the topic? I gave up on it because I understood what you were saying.

Rogue stopped him temporarily though. If she never showed up, the Earth would have died but she couldn't completely stop him which is where Sentry showed up and lifted up the extra weight.

Uuuuuummm...with that scan you posted, I'm clearly asking you who do you think is more powerful out of Sentry and Thanos but you have as of yet to answer that question. I wonder why? Hhhhmmmm.

I know of Sentry fts, almost better than anyone here and I never said he was weak but I also don't think he can beat a team of this caliber either based off their fts.

The only reason i said i was possibly not going to reply to you is if you kept going on and on and on about a topic i was no longer discussing.

Originally posted by carver9
No hiss fits being thrown here. If I didn't bring up the Sentry and worm scene after your comment, wouldn't you consider that a concession (in regards to the worm) if I didn't even take the time to defend myself on the topic? I gave up on it because I understood what you were saying.

Rogue stopped him temporarily though. If she never showed up, the Earth would have died but she couldn't completely stop him which is where Sentry showed up and lifted up the extra weight.

Uuuuuummm...with that scan you posted, I'm clearly asking you who do you think is more powerful out of Sentry and Thanos but you have as of yet to answer that question. I wonder why? Hhhhmmmm.

I know of Sentry fts, almost better than anyone here and I never said he was weak but I also don't think he can beat a team of this caliber either based off their fts.

The only reason i said i was possibly not going to reply to you is if you kept going on and on and on about a topic i was no longer discussing.

Okay then with regards to the worm I will take that concession from you (no harm done lets leave that)

Oh sure she did "stop" him the more correct way to put it would be slowed him down which did in turn allow Robert to arrive. I can offer an explanation as to say that Rogue and Tony never knew about the Sentry arriving originally so that's why they acted like that was the end. On the premise of that I will agree there.

4th point, I think we can both agree to leave that now (we can PM eachother if we want to debate that point any longer)

Oh it's Death Sentry? I feel like he'd traumatized Starbrand.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk didn't lose to that Gorilla. A bite doesn't mean you lost a fight but let's move on.

You naming all of Sentry fts are impressive but I guess you've forgot what the others has done? Like Hulk strength nearly depleting an abstract of its power. Or his punch reversing time. Or Hyperion pushing two universes away from each other and withstand the destruction of two universes . Or Thor busting through Galactus head or damaging Chaos King. Again, Sentry has done well against Thor but that doesn't mean he could stalemate a squad with this kind of power. Taking out Thor doesn't mean you can take out a full team of Thors. Also, Thanos didn't knock Thor out...especially not as easily as Sentry did while holding back ( don't know where you got that from) so is Sentry more powerful than Thanos as well?

Lol. So when they faced Starbrand, they were using that level of power, aye? Hulk with his abstract power, Hyperion with his universe level strength, Thor with his Galactus/Chaos King power?

Because you better compare apples and apples, lol.

Before I give my humble opinion on the fight, I would like to state that it's absolutely hilarious how One_Angry_Scot is destroying carver9 in their "debate". I put debate in quotation marks, because it's not really a debate, but rather a stomp.

And regarding the fight:

Starbrand faced the Avengers, including Thor, Hyperion and Hulk. From what I saw in the fight the Avengers were holding back at the beginning and gave Starbrand the chance to yield, but they still got into a fight. When the Avengers got serious about it Starbrand was at the receiving end.

When it comes to Death Seed Sentry we have a guy, who trashed Thor without even trying. He did it twice and he could do it a third time. He has outperformed the combined powers of all heroes by actually stopping Exitar.
Carver made the argument that we don't know how much Sentry was actually lifting and that Rogue maybe did the most lifting with Hulk's strength (who would have expected that), but if you actually read the comic you would see that nothing really implies that Rogue did well. She went for it and the heroes stated that it was still not enough and that Exitar was approaching Earth.
Then Sentry came along and lifted Exitar with Iron Man making the comment that with whoever Wasp got in stopped Exitar. So more context leans towards Sentry doing the bigger amount of lifting.

It's obvious that Death Seed Sentry is performing at higher levels than any High Herald in Marvel with Thor argueably being one of the Highest Herald, if not the Highest Herald (in my opinion).

TL-DR: With the Sentry one-shotting Thor with a molecular blast, while still holding back and two-shotting Thor afterwards, I don't see how the Avengers would stand a chance against him.
It literally took him two punches to take Thor out. Sentry has the clear speed advantage over everyone on the Avengers roster. Thor would be knocked out before Hulk and Hyperion could interfere. Then they would have one powerhouse less and I think that we can all agree that the other Avengers wouldn't do much better.

It's like an adult fighting children. It doesn't matter if he faces one child or three of them. The amount of damage he can dish out overwhelms them anyway. Sorry for the harsh comparison, but it's the way it is.

And with all of that being said... While I think that Death Seed Sentry would beat the current Starbrand, it's not because Sentry has been portrayed as super powerful, but rather because Starbrand has been downgraded.
In theory Starbrand should win, because we know that his power source is beyond Sentry's capabilities, when it comes to feats and the classic Starbrand would therefore win the fight. This version however would lose.

Enzeru finally! I was waiting for you to comment in this thread. I agree with what you said. Although I am confused because I thought this fight was with regular sentry, but after reading some previous post I see this thread has transitioned to Deathry vs Starbrand.

Originally posted by Stoic
This is the regular old Sentry before Siege vs current Starbrand wielder.

Who wins?

Originally posted by dial J for Josh
..... I thought this fight was with regular sentry, but after reading some previous post I see this thread has transitioned to Deathry vs Starbrand.

Any "non wuss" version of Sentry should get the majority vs Starbrand. The Void influenced ones would outright stomp. Death Seed Sentry should stomp also.

Originally posted by Tony Stark

You're saying that a mentally unstable SENTRY killed a mentally unstable Molecule Man?

I did forget to mention that aside from Owen being partially insane,
which is nothing in power next to mentally stable Owen.

... Mentally stable controls space-time-matter on a multiversal level,
Un-stable controls molecules on a local level. (about a town)

Owen also wanted to sub-consciously lose on top of that hinderance.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well first, he didn't kill Owen. He bfr'd him.

What ?

MM is alive ?

That version of MM could still destroy high herald level heroes in an instant.

So him being Multiversal doesn't really mean much here.

Originally posted by Mr Master
... Mentally stable controls space-time-matter on a multiversal level,
Un-stable controls molecules on a local level. (about a town)

Owen also wanted to sub-consciously lose on top of that hinderance.

That's so hilarious, man. I went in-depth to debunk all that nonsense of yours and you're still at it 😄 Okay, I will do it again.

Your argument is basically the following nonsense in disguise:

"Well, Molecule Man affected molecule matter on a +universal scale and since he lost to Sentry there is no way in hell he could have been that powerful anymore! Therefore he was depowered and could only affect a city and wanted to lose on top of that."

THAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT! And here are my arguments why what you're saying is utter bullshit:

1. Molecule Man's power level was not limited to a city-scale. The reason why he was operating inside the city was because he grew up in that city and went back to it, to live there in peace. He was only affecting intruders to protect his home.

2. Molecule Man was making direct hints at his actual power level from the past by asking Daken how he was able to fight past his molecule manipulation. He then realized that he was only able to do that, because he is the son of Wolverine and Wolverine's healing factor somewhat protected him from the molecule manipulation in the past.
Molecule Man still turned Daken into a tree and the Adamantium inside Bullseyes body into liquid. (Note that he was affecting organic matter, something older versions of the Molecule Man were not able to do due to mental issues.)

3. If we for some reason translate your so called city-scaled limitation of Molecule Man's power into regular power, would that mean that heralds like the Sentry (at least herald) can be killed by city-scaled explosions? Because that's what Molecule Man did to the Sentry. He blew him up into many, many pieces. No one with power on a city-wide scale does that to a herald level being at least. No one.

Molecule Man was perfectly fine.

Molecule Man lost, because he wasn't able to deal with Sentry's power. He was yelling at him, asking him how he was doing that to him. Molecule Man was in pain and was forced to revert everything back to normal. Then he got BFR'ed / killed / turned into a werewolf / whatever by the Sentry.
He lost that encounter straight up. Nothing implied that he wanted to get destroyed other than his self-created mirror images telling him that he wants to be found and killed, which he was denying it and saying that he only protects his home.

Everything has been explained in the comic. What you're doing is not only ignoring the dialogue of the characters in the comic, but also making own assumptions and all of that, because you think that Sentry beating Molecule Man is PIS.

It's not PIS... Spider-Man beating Firelord is PIS, because it happens only for the sake of the plot and without Spider-Man ever backing it up later on. The only reason it's there is to let the plot roll and in such cases the plot rolls over corpses.
When it comes to the Sentry however, the Molecule Man instance didn't really serve much more purpose than to show how insanely powerful the Sentry really is. A character, who has been called godlike and omnipotent multiple times prior to that. character that has been hyped up for years, finally lived up to his hype and in the end of the day it ended up being plot development for that character to establish him as the final boss of the Dark Reign / Siege saga.