Rocket Raccoon vs Batman

Originally posted by Galan007
i also want to reiterate that i'm not opposed to rocket winning--it's entirely possible. my only contention is that based on the feats/tech batman has consistently displayed over the years, the notion that rocket would win 'easily' or whathaveyou is laughable.

furthermore, batman's suit also comes equipped with rockets:

so it's not like he's limited solely to short-range weaponry. /shrug

So you're saying that Batman now has this energy deflector, rockets in his suit that enable flight, as well as his laser refracting chaff pellets, as standard equipment? It kinda seems to me that you're making a case that Batman essentially carries everything he's ever used on panel at all times so everything is standard gear and fair game if you can present a scan of him using it once. And I'm fairly certain that if I posted a scan of a weapon or explosive Rocket's been depicting as using once or twice I'm going to get the "it's not standard gear" retort from most of the people involved in this thread.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
So you're saying that Batman now has this energy deflector, rockets in his suit that enable flight, as well as his laser refracting chaff pellets, as [b]standard equipment? It kinda seems to me that you're making a case that Batman essentially carries everything he's ever used on panel at all times so everything is standard gear and fair game if you can present a scan of him using it once. And I'm fairly certain that if I posted a scan of a weapon or explosive Rocket's been depicting as using once or twice I'm going to get the "it's not standard gear" retort from most of the people involved in this thread. [/B]

furthermore, everything i've posted thus far depicts tech bruce has whipped out on the fly, with no mention of him adding it specifically to his arsenal in order to address a specific threat--so yes, i'd call it standard gear for him. tbh, pulling random/dues ex machina gadgets out of his ass at the drop of a hat is what has ALWAYS made bruce so formidable. after all, he's the only being on the JLA roster with no superpowers to speak of--routinely carrying tech on his person that would allow him to better contend with the full gambit of villains he might face on any given day(from normal humans, to super-powered aliens) makes the most tactical sense.

now, if you'd like me to post feats pertaining to the type of specialized tech/weaponry bruce can create with formal prep time, and/or tech he specifically creates in order to neutralize certain threats, i'd be more than happy to. 🙂

Originally posted by MF DELPH
So you're saying that Batman now has this energy deflector, rockets in his suit that enable flight, as well as his laser refracting chaff pellets, as [b]standard equipment? It kinda seems to me that you're making a case that Batman essentially carries everything he's ever used on panel at all times so everything is standard gear and fair game if you can present a scan of him using it once. And I'm fairly certain that if I posted a scan of a weapon or explosive Rocket's been depicting as using once or twice I'm going to get the "it's not standard gear" retort from most of the people involved in this thread. [/B]

Originally posted by Galan007
tbh, pulling random/dues ex machina gadgets out of his ass at the drop of a hat is what has ALWAYS made bruce so formidable. after all, he's the only being on the JLA roster with no superpowers to speak of--routinely carrying tech on his person that would allow him to better contend with the full gambit of villains he might face on any given day(from normal humans, to super-powered aliens) makes the most tactical sense.

If that's the case, then Batman should be ban from ever being in a forum battle since he will always have the perfect plot device/dues ex machina weapon for every opponent. Its an auto win every time he is used.

Just be glad it's not Morrison's Batman, who had multiple bat grenades on his person.

Originally posted by Galan007
who said anything about bruce flying? when i said 'rockets', i meant the missile/RPG-type(ergo the scans.) 😕

furthermore, everything i've posted thus far depicts tech bruce has whipped out on the fly, with no mention of him adding it specifically to his arsenal in order to address a specific threat--so yes, i'd call it standard gear for him. tbh, pulling random/dues ex machina gadgets out of his ass at the drop of a hat is what has ALWAYS made bruce so formidable. after all, he's the only being on the JLA roster with no superpowers to speak of--routinely carrying tech on his person that would allow him to better contend with the full gambit of villains he might face on any given day(from normal humans, to super-powered aliens) makes the most tactical sense.

now, if you'd like me to post feats pertaining to the type of specialized tech/weaponry bruce can create with formal prep time, i'd be more than happy to. 🙂

I'm behind a firewall here at work so if there's a picture accompanying your rockets comment I likely just can't see it. If that is the case it's just a misunderstanding and I apologize for it. But Batman now carries RPGs standard?

As to the second point, will Rocket be given that same respect, as in if he pulls a weapon out and it's not depicted as regular use (as in pulled out on the fly in a story and not shown in every appearance) I'll be able to claim it as standard equipment because he just happened to pull it out? Rocket always has overpowered blasters of some sort as he's a weapons specialist with a penchant for having really overpowered weapons. Am I going to get resistance on using a scan of Rocket using a high end weapon that's not always depicted being strapped to his back?

Originally posted by Supermutant
If that's the case, then Batman should be ban from ever being in a forum battle since he will always have the perfect plot device/dues ex machina weapon for every opponent. Its an auto win every time he is used.

Well technically not even his rocket is always strapped to his back either 😖hifty:

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'm behind a firewall here at work so if there's a picture accompanying your rockets comment I likely just can't see it. If that is the case it's just a misunderstanding and I apologize for it. But Batman now carries RPGs standard?

As to the second point, will Rocket be given that same respect, as in if he pulls a weapon out and it's not depicted as regular use (as in pulled out on the fly in a story and not shown in every appearance) I'll be able to claim it as standard equipment because he just happened to pull it out? Rocket always has overpowered blasters of some sort as he's a weapons specialist with a penchant for having really overpowered weapons. Am I going to get resistance on using a scan of Rocket using a high end weapon that's not always depicted being strapped to his back?

it really depends how far you take it, as anyone who has followed GotG knows the weaponry rocket carries on him 99% of the time doesn't change too terribly much--he's fairly consistent. the same cannot be said about bruce, however, as his standard tech is constantly evolving. no matter the threat, he always seems to have a gadget that helps him better contend with it--that's been his gimmick ever since conception. not sure why it's such a big deal now..? like i said earlier: none of the tech/weaponry i've posted was stated to have been added to bruce's arsenal for any particular reason--that's evidently some of the stuff he carries on him 'just in case'. /shrug

if you go too far with rocket's tech, though, i'll pull out the 'bat-nuke' scan... you've been warned. 😛

Originally posted by MF DELPH
No, I wouldn't take Punisher over Bats. The reason I'm taking Rocket in this specific scenario is because the OP didn't specify any stipulations for this battle so it's relegated to standard KMC rules: standard gear only in a featureless environment and a starting distance of .5 km (500 meters). With those stips I believe Rocket has the weaponry to take Batman out. In a different setting under different conditions, a city setting, for example, where Batman has cover and more to work with in regards to his stealth, I'd be taking the opposite position. The issue I'm having with the opposite position here is the fact that in a situation where the opponents begin 500 meters apart and there's no obstructions to use for cover, all things being equal, the guy with the high yield plasma weapons and explosives and flight is the guy at a complete disadvantage.

You seem to keep forgetting that Batman has enough smoke, gas, flash bombs, and explosives to obstruct Rockets vision for as long as its needed.

I assure you, that's not the case. The issue is the area which is required to be covered for that tactic to be worthwhile. The dimensions of the battlefield make that tactic essentially useless. They're on a flat, wide open, featureless (no trees, buildings, etc) area and begin 500 meters away from each other. It's completely flat and completely open. A field of smoke would more give away his position than it would obstruct Rocket's view from that distance and vantage point, and Rocket can always simply move to a different point on the battlefield.

Roger Ramrocket wins in the raccoon world🙂

Originally posted by Letters
You seem to keep forgetting that Batman has enough smoke, gas, flash bombs, and explosives to obstruct Rockets vision for as long as its needed.

As long as needed?? You are doing your own form of PIS. No, he does not have an unlimited supply of bullshit and no, KMC battles don't take place in the Batverse. Smoke bombs would be a hinderance against a quicker opponent with a bigger gun and likely better vision.

Got caught up with some unexpected guests last night. I'll try to get the Rocket stuff together Saturday.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, i got the whole gotg series and just finished reading it a few days ago, so i'll be interested to see what delph thinks is standard because he goes through a lot of sh!t.

personally though, i don't think bats would necessarily win it by going h2h. he has plenty of ranged weapons himself that could very easily take rocket out before it ever reached h2h range. if it got to that, rocket if def f'd. i think it far more likely they would win the battle via ranged attacks most of the time.

Yeah, I think anything that Bat has in his arsenal that's sonic or electric would take the RR out fairly easily.

On the other hand some of RR's weapons has such a powerful radius that it would be really difficult for Bats to dodge. I'm not sure how well the whole people 'telegraphing' where they're going to shoot will save him.

I could imagine a reall quick double K.O. Bats dodging a lethal attack, but getting knocked out after he's sent a few sonic batrangs that takes out RR.

i don't think that type of finish is illogical at all. 👆

Ok, here's what I found to support my position on Rocket:

Weaponry:

Rocket Raccoon, as depicted on panel, typically carries the following armaments and gear:

-Dual Laser Pistols
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-198_zps63856fe9.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv28-013_zps8f22203b.jpg

-Dual Plasma Blasters

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3002-011_zps7452aa72.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoon2014--SpecialEdition-DigitalExclusive001-017_zpse6fcbf8b.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3002-010_zps3711bc8d.jpg

-High Yield Plasma Rifle (variable make and yield)
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyInfinite2014001-044_zpsad6c7455.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv207-011_zps762310a4.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/Gotg-021_zps49cedbdd.jpg

-Gauss Cannon (variable make and yield)

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/gotg_13_012_zpsc97f2d5d.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxy-Angelav2-013_zps66bb16f0.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxy-Angelav2-021_zps92c72da4.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3001-011_zpsbebb0d29.jpg

-His signature Rocket Skates*
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-072_zpsae7baa95.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-121_zps09ee73c2.jpg

early canon, which he uses in every appearance and is the source of his namesake "Rocket".

or

Rocket Pack

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-251_zps65c2523c.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyInfinite2014001-069_zps67a46644.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyInfinite2014001-070_zps459be372.jpg

After joining GotG the team's primary means of transportation is teleportation with Cosmo coordinating it telepathically from Knowhere, so he's not been depicted as using flight on a regular basis as he was before, though per the scans you can see he does carry a rocket pack with him in his gear (Gamora borrows the rocket pack from him). Rocket (and the Guardians) also utilize anti-matter charges and grenades, as well as photonic charges. So for the position I'm taking as to why I support Rocket, I'm arguing from the standpoint that these items are his regularly utilized equipment as he's been depicted as using them on more than one occasion.

Since we're taking the liberty of assuming Batman always has every item he's ever been depicted using in his possession at all times, even when their only depicted as being used once, I think it's only fair to give the same respect, in a limited fashion of course, to Rocket. I'm not going to use any of his more outlandish high end weaponry, I'm just going to limit Rocket to the above tech.

Now, for combat effectiveness, this is essentially a comic trope at this point, but Rocket Raccoon, like Batman, also has reflexes good enough to dodge both bullets and laser blasts.

Here, Rocket receives a package which a Killer Clown robot (sent by Star-Thief) springs out of, getting the drop on an unarmed Rocket in close quarters and Rocket is agile enough to dodge multiple gunshots at close range, escape to brandish a stapler gun, fire off staples in order to secure the robots arm to a wall, then sneak away to a store room to grab a mop and lay the robot out:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-153_zpsf00f0602.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-154_zpscbbc8e6a.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-155_zps47f852d1.jpg

Here, police officers get the drop on Rocket in a wrestling ring after Groot has just won a match against an alien creature and try to arrest him for crimes he's been framed for. One of the officers fires on Rocket as he's reaching for his ID. Rocket is fast enough to dodge multiple point blank plasma blaster shots and escape the ring:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoon2014--SpecialEdition-DigitalExclusive001-011_zps61fd1d27.jpg

Here Rocket takes on a large group of Killer Clowns and dodges multiple volleys of incomming blaster fire while effortlessly taking out multiple targets:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-184_zpsdbb6b37d.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-185_zps79928589.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-186_zps4cfa9ac7.jpg

Also:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-198_zps63856fe9.jpg

There's also his combat with his Rocket Skates:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-121_zps09ee73c2.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-050_zpsf3bdbe18.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/RocketRaccoonampGroot-TheCompleteCollection-051_zps10f64da7.jpg

So Rocket is not a slouch in the agility and reflexes department, and it's not going to be as simple as simply tossing a couple smoke grenades/flash bangs/etc from 500 Meters away and then taking him out with some kind of batarang, sonic pulse device, etc., because, with the starting distance at which Batman and Rocket start apart, which again, I'll reiterate, is a half of a kilometer apart at the start of the match, it's going to take Batman covering some ground to get Rocket within the range of his weapons. At least 20-30 seconds to close 300 meters.

My position on this match is very simple, however. Due to the distance at which Batman and Rocket begin, and the weaponry Rocket regularly employs, I think when the match starts Rocket can simply fly up in the air while repeatedly doing this with his Gauss Cannon:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3001-011_zpsbebb0d29.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/GuardiansoftheGalaxyv3001-012_zpsf8b35cd6.jpg

Simply blanketing the battlefield with it until Batman's dead/unconscious because with the distance and Batman being grounded and without cover (no buildings, no trees, etc), eventually Rocket's going to hit him or near him due to the yield and blast radius. It's a very simple position. It's not a matter of Rocket necessarily being a better combatant or fighter than Batman, which I'll state here, plainly:

Batman is a better fighter than Rocket Raccoon.

The reason I'm saying Rocket wins is the stipulations of the match, the starting distance the combatants start at, the complete lack of cover on the battlefield for Batman, and the blast output and range of Rocket's weaponry.

That's all.

Now, I'm actually on my way out to hang with some friends, so I'll check back in tomorrow. Sorry for the delay in my reply. Work and social life took precedence.

Nice

The above should be in his respect thread, good stuff.

DELPH drops the mic.