Rocket Raccoon vs Batman

Originally posted by MF DELPH
No, I wouldn't take Punisher over Bats. The reason I'm taking Rocket in this specific scenario is because the OP didn't specify any stipulations for this battle so it's relegated to standard KMC rules: standard gear only in a featureless environment and a starting distance of .5 km (500 meters). With those stips I believe Rocket has the weaponry to take Batman out. In a different setting under different conditions, a city setting, for example, where Batman has cover and more to work with in regards to his stealth, I'd be taking the opposite position. The issue I'm having with the opposite position here is the fact that in a situation where the opponents begin 500 meters apart and there's no obstructions to use for cover, all things being equal, the guy with the high yield plasma weapons and explosives and flight is the guy at a complete disadvantage.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I assure you, that's not the case. The issue is the area which is required to be covered for that tactic to be worthwhile. The dimensions of the battlefield make that tactic essentially useless. They're on a flat, wide open, featureless (no trees, buildings, etc) area and begin 500 meters away from each other. It's completely flat and completely open. A field of smoke would more give away his position than it would obstruct Rocket's view from that distance and vantage point, and Rocket can always simply move to a different point on the battlefield.

You keep emphasizing that, but, where in the rules DOES it state that's the battlefield? This is what the rules state.

Concerning the Battlefield Unless otherwise stated by the thread originator, the standard distance between combatants will be .5 kilometers in line of sight at the onset of battle, and there will be an implied "buzz" to signify the onset of battle. It will be assumed combatants are primed to go at the gun. Also, all characters, regardless of where the fight takes place, or what universe/medium they are native to, will have full access to their abilities at optimum efficiency as they are depicted in their native universes. It will be assumed that each character fights as they are normally presented regardless of battle locale. This means that, for example, Flash will in fact have SpeedForce abilities if the battle took place in Marvel Manhattan. Battles will always take place on an assumed equal playing field.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

Wow

Anything to defend Bantam

It's a mod ruling

Apparently it's no longer explicitly detailed in the rules as they've been edited several times, but implicitly, the rule of the forum is that unless the thread starter sets a location for the battle to take place in (like New York or Cybertron or Metropolis) the match defaults to a standard KMC Battle arena which is just a large featureless environment. That's been forum standard for years going back to even before I myself was a Mod in 2007.

That is odd, I never remembered them actually removing it.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
That is odd, I never remembered them actually removing it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It's a conspiracy!!!! All signs point to drunk a Irishman and a short armed extinct reptile...

So then. We kill Pr and Bada. It must be done.

Asked this earlier when was the last time he even used his shakes? Even his rocket backpack he doesn't wear it all the time either. annihilation: conquest he had neither

Originally posted by -K-M-
Asked this earlier when was the last time he even used his shakes? Even his rocket backpack he doesn't wear it all the time either. annihilation: conquest he had neither

i know he used them once in the gotg infinite comic--they would def be part of his standard equipment imo.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Ok, here's what I found to support my position on Rocket:

Weaponry:

Rocket Raccoon, as depicted on panel, typically carries the following armaments and gear:

😑

you'd consider ALL that as 'standard' equipment for rocket to be carrying around? i could agree that he might be carrying any of a couple of those things, but....how do you think he'd get around carrying all of that in the match? some of those guns are huge and he needs 2 hands to use even one of them.

if you wanna give him all that, then sure, i'd take him in this as well. for me, his 'standard' gear would likely be the 2 laser pistols (the types vary but the damage output stays about the same and they are by far and away the things he uses most) and maybe one larger canon-style gun across his back. i went through the gotg stuff and it was very rare that he actually carried grenade style weapons, though he may have one for this and i'd not argue. but that would be about it imo. and of course his flight pack or boots, whichever you like.

i've not really sure exactly what galan would suggest is standard for bats so i'll leave that for him to discuss, but the 2 lasers, a larger rifle/canon and maybe a grenade style weapon is what i'd grant rocket in any given match as standard based on what i've seen. he usually grabs what he needs from the ship before heading into any given situation and he's so small he is limited to just what he can take with him.

for bats, i'd grant several batarangs (there are so many he carries it's really hard to say which are standard but i'd say explosive, sonic, jet-propelled, and gas-releasing would all fall in that category, if not others as well) as well as several defensive measures--chaffs, smoke bombs, ropes and grapple gun, flashbombs, capsules that release a variety of things from gases to acids, and a laser/taser--he's shown both many times. there may be some stuff i'm forgetting, but i'd think that would be a pretty fair assessment of both their 'standard' stuff from what i've seen.

given that set of equipment, i could still see rocket taking some. tactically he may be on bats' level and he IS a hell of a marksman. i could also see at least 1 or 2 double ko's out of 10 but i'd still give bats a majority. batarangs could def distract, the sonic one could be VERY effective against rocket's hyper acute hearing and the smoke, gases and flash bombs would allow bats to close. his grapple gun could negate rocket's flight advantage as could the batarangs and the gas could play havoc with his hyper sense of smell. i also think it would be in character for rocket to attack, thereby aiding bats close some of the immediate distance which i don't see lasting more than a few seconds. once the distance is closed i think bats has the advantage. the lenses in his cowl would allow him to still find rocket through the smoke and he could use his own ranged weapons to finish it.

you see it differently, that's cool with me. to me the break down would be something like bats 5, rocket 3, and maybe 2 double ko's in 10 match ups, assuming each forgets about the previous ones and get's no opportunity to adjust to the opponent.

imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
i know he used them once in the gotg infinite comic--they would def be part of his standard equipment imo.

His shakes? I wouldn't. Maybe rocket pack but even that he doesn't wear all the time.

you're talking about his rocket boots, right?

Originally posted by leonidas
i've not really sure exactly what galan would suggest is standard for bats so i'll leave that for him to discuss

Originally posted by leonidas
for bats, i'd grant several batarangs (there are so many he carries it's really hard to say which are standard but i'd say explosive, sonic, jet-propelled, and gas-releasing would all fall in that category, if not others as well) as well as several defensive measures--chaffs, smoke bombs, ropes and grapple gun, flashbombs, capsules that release a variety of things from gases to acids, and a laser/taser--he's shown both many times. there may be some stuff i'm forgetting, but i'd think that would be a pretty fair assessment of both their 'standard' stuff from what i've seen.

given that set of equipment, i could still see rocket taking some. tactically he may be on bats' level and he IS a hell of a marksman. i could also see at least 1 or 2 double ko's out of 10 but i'd still give bats a majority. batarangs could def distract, the sonic one could be VERY effective against rocket's hyper acute hearing and the smoke, gases and flash bombs would allow bats to close. his grapple gun could negate rocket's flight advantage as could the batarangs and the gas could play havoc with his hyper sense of smell. i also think it would be in character for rocket to attack, thereby aiding bats close some of the immediate distance which i don't see lasting more than a few seconds. once the distance is closed i think bats has the advantage. the lenses in his cowl would allow him to still find rocket through the smoke and he could use his own ranged weapons to finish it.

I think I need to clarify something:

My post with all of his gear listed was showing the items that Rocket is depicted as using on a "regular" basis (as in is depicted as using these items 4 times or more) which would count as standard gear due to regularity of use. I'm not saying he would carry all of those weapons simultaneously in one match, I'm just showing that those are the armaments he regularly uses. The only weapon I actually stated for him to utilize for the purposes of the match was the Gauss Cannon.

Just to clarify:

I'm not saying he's bringing all of that into the match at once.

I'm saying that based on regularity of use (multiple usages of each on panel) those are the types of weapons I'd have Rocket bringing to combat, and I think just the Gauss Cannon alone would be enough.

Originally posted by Galan007
this is a very difficult question for me to answer. in more current continuity bruce has shown that there is evidently a force-field on his utility belt, mini-RPG-like missiles in his gloves, that he can also release EMPs from his belt(is rocket's tech EMP-proof?), etc. etc. and when said tech was shown, it was never alluded to that bruce added it to his arsenal just to address a specific threat he was slated to face that day--so i guess it really depends how we are defining bruce's 'standard' tech. like i've reiterated: he's batman. pulling dues ex tech out of his ass for the lulz has ALWAYS been his gimmick, so imo, it's really hard to make a generalization for him. /shrug

FTW!!!!!111!1one1!ONE! I'm sure Bruce has something for racoons.

Originally posted by Galan007
this is a very difficult question for me to answer. in more current continuity bruce has shown that his utility belt contains: a force-field, the ability to generate full-fledged EMPs(is rocket's tech EMP-proof?), mini-RPG-like missiles in his gloves, etc. etc. and when said tech was shown on panel, it was never alluded to that bruce added it to his arsenal just to address a specific threat he was slated to face that day--so i guess it really depends how we are defining bruce's 'standard' tech. like i've reiterated: he's batman. pulling dues ex tech out of his ass for the lulz has ALWAYS been his gimmick, so imo, it's really hard to make a generalization for him. /shrug

i think this is a fair, and moreover, logical conclusion based on what we've seen from each character respectively. 👆

👆

the emp generator is something i've seen him use a few times. km was making a case that rocket may not have the boots. i guess i always just sort of thought of them as part of rocket's 'classic' stuff. it's even in his name. 😂 so i gave him the ability to fly. looking back at even MORE of his stuff though (annihilators, his own HORRIBLE mini and several of his appearances....) i may actually have been generous in his equipment. it's only been recently in the gotg books that he's really used the larger ranged weapons consistently, and i think it's mostly because all that is stored on the ship they travel in.

anyway, less equipment would obviously lessen his chances, but...whatever. rocket is still very cool. hard to believe, given his origins and hos initial appearances, that i can be saying that. marvel did something right in bringing him along like they have.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think I need to clarify something:

My post with all of his gear listed was showing the items that Rocket is depicted as using on a "regular" basis (as in is depicted as using these items 4 times or more) which would count as standard gear due to regularity of use. I'm not saying he would carry all of those weapons simultaneously in one match, I'm just showing that those are the armaments he regularly uses. The only weapon I actually stated for him to utilize for the purposes of the match was the Gauss Cannon.

Just to clarify:

I'm not saying he's bringing all of that into the match at once.

I'm saying that based on regularity of use (multiple usages of each on panel) those are the types of weapons I'd have Rocket bringing to combat, and I think just the Gauss Cannon alone would be enough.

👆

so what would he carry into THIS match then that would give him the majority do you think? just his canon would be enough iyo?

Originally posted by Delta1938
http://www.hooverae.com/upload/files/090109/4003423.jpeg

FTW!!!!!111!1one1!ONE! I'm sure Bruce has something for racoons.

PREP MASTAH!!!!

Originally posted by leonidas
👆

the emp generator is something i've seen him use a few times. km was making a case that rocket may not have the boots. i guess i always just sort of thought of them as part of rocket's 'classic' stuff. it's even in his name. 😂 so i gave him the ability to fly. looking back at even MORE of his stuff though (annihilators, his own HORRIBLE mini and several of his appearances....) i may actually have been generous in his equipment. it's only been recently in the gotg books that he's really used the larger ranged weapons consistently, and i think it's mostly because all that is stored on the ship they travel in.

anyway, less equipment would obviously lessen his chances, but...whatever. rocket is still very cool. hard to believe, given his origins and hos initial appearances, that i can be saying that. marvel did something right in bringing him along like they have.

also, i'd like to thank delph for actually spending the time to dig up some good rocket showings. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
lol. reminds me of this:

PREP MASTAH!!!!

Yes, I remembered that one too when I was looking-up Bat Shark Repellent, but didn't feel like looking it up too. And recently I was watching BATMAN reruns on IFC. I wish I didn't. I was too young to notice how cheesy and absurd that show was when I watched syndicated reruns as a kid. Apparently it's coming-out on Blu-ray. Now we can see cheap props and Burt Ward's sexy lady legs in 1080p!!

Originally posted by leonidas
👆

so what would he carry into THIS match then that would give him the majority do you think? just his canon would be enough iyo?

Hmm...

I'd say:

Gauss Cannon
Rocket Pack
Plasma Blaster (on hip)
Grenades/Charges (say, 8 total)

That's what he usually has (or a high end plasma rifle instead of the cannon). Rocket is trigger happy so when the opening bell tolls he's very likely to just start blasting. I see him just going Death Blossom (for a Last Star Fighter reference) with the cannon and eventually tagging Batman, or near him, since there's no cover. With the starting distance and open battlefield Rocket can start cutting loose at go.

The old Adam West Batman show (and feature film) were amazing. Pure comedy in retrospect. I downloaded them all on a torrent. I actually never realized that Mr. Freeze made an appearance on the old show (he was inexplicably a Russian gangster though). It's classic campiness.