You know what, f*ck it.
When I get home from work I'll make a more comprehensive reply in Rocket's defense, with scans and such, to further elaborate on why I think it's folly, and irrational, to think that even as good as Batman is he's going to close half a kilometer on Rocket with zero cover completely unscathed and take Rocket out h2h.
Also, in regards to Rocket's speed and maneuverabilty, Rocket wears rocket boots which allow him to fly, which is another reason I find it hard to accept that Batman's going to be able to navigate the battlefield better than Rocket and simply close .5 kms in a matter of seconds and Batkick him by the use of 2-3 smoke pellets, let alone cover that distance seemingly instantaneously to the effect of Rocket being unable to offer any kind of battlefield positioning counter.
I get off from work at around 5:30p PST so I won't be able to post something until after that.
It's a shame, there's a good argument to be made for Rocket, but instead we just get BAV being mad about Batman's insane Batcompetence.
For example, Rocket listed his weapon as being able to fire a blast powered by cold fusion, not necessarily light, at 20 megawatts, while threatening Thanos. That could actually be enough to just destroy the filaments in Batman's chaff grenades, if they can even refract an attack of that sort.
Just as an example. shrug
Edit: I stand corrected, Delph's gonna step up.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
You know what, f*ck it.When I get home from work I'll make a more comprehensive reply in Rocket's defense, with scans and such, to further elaborate on why I think it's folly, and irrational, to think that even as good as Batman is he's going to close half a kilometer on Rocket with zero cover completely unscathed and take Rocket out h2h.
Also, in regards to Rocket's speed and maneuverabilty, Rocket wears rocket boots which allow him to fly, which is another reason I find it hard to accept that Batman's going to be able to navigate the battlefield better than Rocket and simply close .5 kms in a matter of seconds and Batkick him by the use of 2-3 smoke pellets, let alone cover that distance seemingly instantaneously to the effect of Rocket being unable to offer any kind of battlefield positioning counter.
I get off from work at around 5:30p PST so I won't be able to post something until after that.
sweet. i'll be all ears. be curious to see what you find. rocket hasn't been 'disappointing' in the new gotg series, but i had hoped we might see a little more from him than we have. he's cool, and funny as sh1t but i'd have loved some more focus on his ability and gear tbh.
Originally posted by MF DELPHiirc, only one poster has mentioned that smoke pellets alone would be sufficient to conceal bruce from rocket long enough to bridge that distance. conversely, i, and a few others, brought up his slew of various concealment/distractive/incapacitatory tech--so hopefully your post will keep that in mind. i also have a lot more tech feats i can post, if need be.
You know what, f*ck it.When I get home from work I'll make a more comprehensive reply in Rocket's defense, with scans and such, to further elaborate on why I think it's folly, and irrational, to think that even as good as Batman is he's going to close half a kilometer on Rocket with zero cover completely unscathed and take Rocket out h2h.
Also, in regards to Rocket's speed and maneuverabilty, Rocket wears rocket boots which allow him to fly, which is another reason I find it hard to accept that Batman's going to be able to navigate the battlefield better than Rocket and simply close .5 kms in a matter of seconds and Batkick him by the use of 2-3 smoke pellets, let alone cover that distance seemingly instantaneously to the effect of Rocket being unable to offer any kind of battlefield positioning counter.
I get off from work at around 5:30p PST so I won't be able to post something until after that.
personally, i don't care if you think rocket can win(it's certainly possible), but some people(not necessarily you) are acting like bruce doesn't have a chance in hell...which is flat-out wrong, all evidence considered.
also, rocket certainly isn't the first [potentially] airborne foe that bruce has encountered. just saying...
Originally posted by MF DELPH
You know what, f*ck it.When I get home from work I'll make a more comprehensive reply in Rocket's defense, with scans and such, to further elaborate on why I think it's folly, and irrational, to think that even as good as Batman is he's going to close half a kilometer on Rocket with zero cover completely unscathed and take Rocket out h2h.
Also, in regards to Rocket's speed and maneuverabilty, Rocket wears rocket boots which allow him to fly, which is another reason I find it hard to accept that Batman's going to be able to navigate the battlefield better than Rocket and simply close .5 kms in a matter of seconds and Batkick him by the use of 2-3 smoke pellets, let alone cover that distance seemingly instantaneously to the effect of Rocket being unable to offer any kind of battlefield positioning counter.
I get off from work at around 5:30p PST so I won't be able to post something until after that.
Take it easy, Delph. They've already proven that Batman can dodge everything from bullets to light with simple side steps and ducking and maybe even standing still. It doesn't really add up, considering he's only at peak human level and the speeds these things move at... but there are enough scans of him doing these things for it to become irrefutable evidence. Batman can't be shot. Punched, kicked, sure... but never shot.
At least, I think that's the way it works around here...
Originally posted by Galan007
iirc, only one poster has mentioned that smoke pellets alone would be sufficient to conceal bruce from rocket long enough to bridge that distance. conversely, i, and a few others, brought up his slew of various concealment/distractive/incapacitatory tech--so hopefully your post will keep that in mind. i also have a lot more tech feats i can post, if need be.personally, i don't care if you think rocket can win(it's certainly possible), but some people(not necessarily you) are acting like bruce doesn't have a chance in hell...which is flat-out wrong, all evidence considered.
also, rocket certainly isn't the first [potentially] airborne foe that bruce has encountered. just saying...
I didn't mention the rocket boots as in Rocket is going to hover above Batman (though that would also be a viable option, as he can just set a high yield explosive on the battlefield with a blast radius of a few hundred square meters and hover out of it's range while Batman, without buildings for altitude or to use his grappling hooks upon, and with no cover, and likely without a prevailing wind to use his suit's glider wings upon, will essentially be grounded, unless Batman now also carries a jet pack as standard equipment and I'm unaware of it), I mentioned it because it allows Rocket to maneuver the battlefield's entire area very quickly and keep his distance if wanted for tactics (since people kept stating that Batman could just close the the distance effortlessly and Rocket had no counter). Rocket can always keep Batman at a distance and used ranged blasts and explosives if he chose to with his rocket boots.
Also, in regards to your energy weapon countermeasures from the scan, as I said on the last page, in regards to those particulate chaffs which refracted Dr. Light's light/lasers, they aren't a deterrent to all forms of energy, and those chaffs likely wouldn't deter a plasma beam (charged particle weapon) or the cold fusion cannon, and moreover, in the Superman scan you provided, it sure didn't look like Batman's armor was equipped to simply reflect a heat vision blast and he had to dodge and utilize a mirror, so I have a hard time accepting that Batman's equipment gives him protection against energy beams universally versus just being a deterrent for the foe he was engaging, Mr. Toxin.
Anyway, I'll make my Rocket arsenal and tactics post after I gather and upload the scans.
Originally posted by krisblaze
What counts as standard equipment for rocket raccoon?Seen him with a lot of different weapons.
well, i got the whole gotg series and just finished reading it a few days ago, so i'll be interested to see what delph thinks is standard because he goes through a lot of sh!t.
personally though, i don't think bats would necessarily win it by going h2h. he has plenty of ranged weapons himself that could very easily take rocket out before it ever reached h2h range. if it got to that, rocket if def f'd. i think it far more likely they would win the battle via ranged attacks most of the time.
I don't think the battle gets up close and personal. I think Rocket either shoots Batman from a distance or just blows him and a majority of the battlefield up and calls it a day. They start off a half kilometer apart. It's like people won't acknowledge how much distance that is to cover on foot. At best Batman is like 50-90 seconds away from Rocket if if we assume Rocket stays stationary and Batman simply sprints directly at him, and again, the battle arena is a flat featureless environment, so the likelihood of this perfect storm of battle positioning and getting the drop on Rocket is likely not going to occur.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Batman is going to throw a Batarang 500 meters?I think what makes this harder for me is that you, leonidas, and Galan, are people I consider friends and respect, but some of this stuff just doesn't seem reasonable. Batman is going to throw a batarang the distance of 5 soccer pitches and hit Rocket?
he doesn't necessarily have to throw it that far or hit with it if it is explosive. though i'd wager my right arm he can and has thrown one further than that. for a guy who kicks trees down and knocks down iron doors a 500m throw with a nearly perfectly aerodynamic weapon isn't much of a stretch imo. i def get what you're saying and agree rr could take some, no doubt. i'd actually forgotten his flight ability which is a big advantage in this arena. the arguments you're saying though are very similar to arguments people make for punisher beating bats. out of curiosity, i'd think you'd choose punisher over bats as well then?
Originally posted by MF DELPHwhere in this scan it is stated that batman's 'energy deflector' *only* works against mr. toxic's specific type of energy?
Also, in regards to your energy weapon countermeasures from the scan, as I said on the last page, in regards to those particulate chaffs which refracted Dr. Light's light/lasers, they aren't a deterrent to all forms of energy, and those chaffs likely wouldn't deter a plasma beam (charged particle weapon) or the cold fusion cannon, and moreover, in the Superman scan you provided, it sure didn't look like Batman's armor was equipped to simply reflect a heat vision blast and he had to dodge and utilize a mirror, so I have a hard time accepting that Batman's equipment gives him protection against energy beams universally versus just being a deterrent for the foe he was engaging, Mr. Toxin.
aside from that, bruce's suit is designed to tolerate substantial energy discharges as well. here he shrugs off the detonation of a proton energy power core at point blank range:
http://imgur.com/rmztPA2
http://imgur.com/qx0YJkN
http://imgur.com/rwsZZhC
his suit also allowed bruce to endure direct attacks from mr. toxic.
...but despite all this evidence, rocket will just blast him into submission, with no issues..? whatevs.
Originally posted by leonidasi'm curious too, because depending on how crazy he wants to get, i have a LOT of bat-feats on standby.
well, i got the whole gotg series and just finished reading it a few days ago, so i'll be interested to see what delph thinks is standard because he goes through a lot of sh!t.personally though, i don't think bats would necessarily win it by going h2h. he has plenty of ranged weapons himself that could very easily take rocket out before it ever reached h2h range. if it got to that, rocket if def f'd. i think it far more likely they would win the battle via ranged attacks most of the time.
getting the drop on barry allen? check.
tooling donna troy+kid flash? check.
out-reacting bart allen? check.
tooling j'onn+dianna+aquaman+hal(when they were rookies)? check.
incapacitating black lightning+major force+katanna? check.
etc. etc. etc.
...though i'm sure that suff, as with nearly everything else mentioned on bruce's behalf thus far, would be promptly downplayed by the 'coon faction. ermm
i also want to reiterate that i'm not opposed to rocket winning--it's entirely possible. my only contention is that based on the feats/tech batman has consistently displayed over the years, the notion that rocket would win 'easily' or whathaveyou is laughable.
furthermore, batman's suit also comes equipped with rockets:
so it's not like he's limited solely to short-range weaponry. /shrug
Originally posted by leonidas
he doesn't necessarily have to throw it that far or hit with it if it is explosive. though i'd wager my right arm he can and has thrown one further than that. for a guy who kicks trees down and knocks down iron doors a 500m throw with a nearly perfectly aerodynamic weapon isn't much of a stretch imo. i def get what you're saying and agree rr could take some, no doubt. i'd actually forgotten his flight ability which is a big advantage in this arena. the arguments you're saying though are very similar to arguments people make for punisher beating bats. out of curiosity, i'd think you'd choose punisher over bats as well then?
No, I wouldn't take Punisher over Bats. The reason I'm taking Rocket in this specific scenario is because the OP didn't specify any stipulations for this battle so it's relegated to standard KMC rules: standard gear only in a featureless environment and a starting distance of .5 km (500 meters). With those stips I believe Rocket has the weaponry to take Batman out. In a different setting under different conditions, a city setting, for example, where Batman has cover and more to work with in regards to his stealth, I'd be taking the opposite position. The issue I'm having with the opposite position here is the fact that in a situation where the opponents begin 500 meters apart and there's no obstructions to use for cover, all things being equal, the guy with the high yield plasma weapons and explosives and flight is the guy at a complete disadvantage.
