Originally posted by Lek Kuen
To me the fact that we got to this point shows that at the very least a sizable amount of the population would be and was ok with monogamy at least to a degree.The exact numbers? Likely can't know. But it would have caught on like it did if everyone hated it their entire lives
But it's sort of a farce.The reality of our life is not one partner forever, it's multiple partners, admittedly often in succession (as sort of serial monogamy), but also often in parallel. Considering that even though it is the only socially acceptable option, again, I find it hard to say how societies without thousands of years of baggage would actually approach relationships.
Originally posted by Digi
Well yeah. But that's not really the interesting discussion.And evolution and practicality. There are legit reasons for it, not just because we're too scared to stop being "sheeple" or some such thing.
Nah, I think it's mostly the sheeple thing. As far as I know there's no unanimous evidence of monogamy in humans being at all evolutionary, on the contrary that is strongly debated. Practicality in so far that negative consequences arise for people that do not comply with the status quo, yes, that perhaps. Although I would again consider that as part of the sheeple group (which, btw, is not what I said, but lets roll with it). Another way one may consider practicality is that it was practical for people to be sure who their offspring is, hence our elaborate marriage traditions and a whole lot of sexism, but again, I don't see how that is a good argument for the current world being the way it was a thousand years ago. The circumstances have changed.
Originally posted by Bardock42
But it's sort of a farce.The reality of our life is not one partner forever, it's multiple partners, admittedly often in succession (as sort of serial monogamy), but also often in parallel. Considering that even though it is the only socially acceptable option, again, I find it hard to say how societies without thousands of years of baggage would actually approach relationships.
Well that's why I said to a degree. A form of mongamy like you put it, serial mongamy. Like you said to Digi, we have elaborate marriage traditions all around the world and several cultures have things such as exclusive and ownership, even if it is often sexist and male focused.
While it may not be right. It's not as simple as people would hate monogamy if it wasn't for current culture. Societies often develop things involving exclusivity or ownership in various ways. How proper it is is a whole different argument
Originally posted by Bardock42
Nah, I think it's mostly the sheeple thing. As far as I know there's no unanimous evidence of monogamy in humans being at all evolutionary, on the contrary that is strongly debated. Practicality in so far that negative consequences arise for people that do not comply with the status quo, yes, that perhaps. Although I would again consider that as part of the sheeple group (which, btw, is not what I said, but lets roll with it). Another way one may consider practicality is that it was practical for people to be sure who their offspring is, hence our elaborate marriage traditions and a whole lot of sexism, but again, I don't see how that is a good argument for the current world being the way it was a thousand years ago. The circumstances have changed.
I don't buy into the marriage traditions stuff either. But polygamy doesn't seem appealing to me regardless. More broadly, the only way I can see most people emotionally and physically handling polygamy (not to mention financially, or with their time, etc.) is when the relationships are very casual. The depth of a single relationship seems like it would be inverse to the number of healthy relationships one could maintain. The deeper a single relationship, the less likely a person would be able to handle others in some or multiple ways.
I did say most people, of course, because humanity is too diverse to paint with the same brush. But like I said, practicality. And those things I mentioned are fairly universal to the human condition, not really a product of society alone.
Originally posted by you get thornsI wouldn't mind that other than the neurotransmitters dopamine and oxytocin are so stimulated by active 'love' that it can extend your lifespan, improve sleep quality, social empathy, and passion which is the driving force for improving the intellect and everything else.
In the long run you will be happier alone.
Originally posted by quanchi112
One partner forever and living happily ever after is a myth. People can make it work but they ain't happy.
Yes, because you've undoubtedly done all the research to find that all people are unhappy who are in relationships.
You may have a point lurking somewhere, but it needs a ton of clarification before it's anything but laughably absolute.
Originally posted by Mindship
With Oneness, you never know. 😉
Talking/debating with him is like trying to catch a greased pig.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
"Why is it a sin to love someone?"Sound like a good name for a blues song.
That it does. 👆
Originally posted by It's xyz!
The idea of polygamy intrigues me.Would a "pack" of adults be better at raising their collective children than two or in some cases one parent raising their child(ren)?
This would be hard to get a definite answer for, even if we had proper data. The definition of "better" parenting is itself so subjective as to blow any attempted analysis out of the water.
I agree it's an interesting idea, at least. But purely speculative, at best.
Originally posted by DigiI never said anything about you dating a dude with your girlfriend, dude.
What are your relationship credentials? Like, what are you basing this on?Also, some links for your consideration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_management
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit%E2%80%93cost_ratio
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=evolutionary+monogamyThat aside, my actual reaction to this was even more dismissive. As someone in a committed relationship, the thought of adding more is exhausting and stressful just to think about, and that's even if they were cool with it.
You want to throw d*ck all over the place? It's an enlightened time we live in. Have at it.
I'm talking about taking another's girl.
Why is it a sin to want that girl?
You don't own her soul because you've established intimate relations as some man-made sanctity.
Originally posted by DigiIt could fall under self-actualization as well.
That would likely qualify under evolutionary, as I mentioned. But sure.
But you can get the body-mind doping effects of oxytocin in an open-relationship, and that's what this is all about. The neurotransmitter is released along with dopamine, all you need is a 'dope' time before you can get in the oxytocin-releasing mood, which is to me, most of the time, sickening mushiness. Then one night in bed with that person will do it.
What I said in the OP, is that the advantage of an open-relationship is that there's always a girl you're gonna love more - but you won't believe it because of the oxytocin. A person needs change.
And monogamy with the same individual does cause a lot of problems stemming from a) lack of variety, b) jealousy, c) cabin fever/lack of deprivation of attentions.
Time off does often improve a relationship; nothing improves it like deprivation. Think about it, you appreciate your time more together when you've experienced the loss of their presence.
Also, my experience that you asked for, you pop in and do something badass or dangerous in the name of desire for one short-lived moment. When it's over you hide, and become an average Joe again. You're left an enigma. Someone far more desired than anyone else.
Originally posted by Oneness
I never said anything about you dating a dude with your girlfriend, dude.
Neither did I. I have no idea what you're talking about here.
Originally posted by Oneness
I'm talking about taking another's girl.Why is it a sin to want that girl?
You don't own her soul because you've established intimate relations as some man-made sanctity.
You're right. I don't own her soul. How silly of me.
Good luck getting this girl to leave her man, though. What's her name?
Originally posted by Oneness
And monogamy with the same individual does cause a lot of problems stemming from a) lack of variety, b) jealousy, c) cabin fever, d) lack of deprivation
Yup. There are no potential negative consequences from polygamy. And no benefits to monogamy. None. /sarcasm
Originally posted by Oneness
Time off does often improve a relationship; nothing improves it like deprivation. You pop in when you're badass for one short-lived moment, and become a normal human when you leave and you're left an enigma. Someone far more desired than anyone else.
This is the funniest visual ever. I'm imagining you walking into the bedroom in sunglasses (and nothing else; no homo), doing your business with a girl, then putting them back on and leaving. Maybe you'll call her, maybe you won't. Because you're a philosophical Casanova.
Too much? Maybe it's too much. I'm having fun, at least.
Anyway, enjoy your quest.
Originally posted by Oneness
Also, my experience that you asked for, you pop in and do something badass (and just about illegal) in the name of desire for one short-lived moment. When it's over you hide, and become an average Joe again. You're left an enigma. Someone far more desired than anyone else.
Your edit here makes things slightly creepier. But, ignoring that, what I was asking is, what evidence, anecdotal or empirical, do you have to suggest that one is better than the other? What firsthand experience proves your points that polygamy is better?
Because I hope I'm off base here, but you sound like you've never been in a serious relationship in your life. That alone would call into question your rather unique views on the matter. Because you're talking about being an enigma and chemicals in the brain...it's like the conversation I had with myself in middle school to convince myself that I never wanted to date girls because they were icky. And it's not considering any of the many reasons people DO enter monogamous relationships (and enjoy themselves).