Is "Chivalry" Sexist?

Originally posted by Surtur
Just..what? This is almost like saying it's okay for blacks to enslave white people because in the past whites enslaved blacks. Do you REALLY want to play this game? Fight sexism with sexism?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! Are you 14 years old?

no.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
lol obviously i don't mean introducing sexism for men but i mean we should start treating women with more respect by implementing laws to level the playing field. so are focus should be on womens rights in the next few years to close the gap. not talking about treating men inferior which would be sexism.

no.

In what ways is the playing field not level now?

Women get equal pay, they are more likely to be believed over a man. They are more likely to get a more lenient sentence in prison for violent crimes when compared to men. In the sciences and math they are more likely to be hired now. They are more likely to see favorable results in custody battles in court. It's more acceptable for a woman to be violent towards a man than vice versa, etc. I don't have people holding open doors and pulling out chairs for me in this day and age, women still have that as well.

In what way do we need to give them even more respect? Give me an example. The wage gap and rape culture are bunk, but I'm sure you have other stuff.

Originally posted by Surtur
In what ways is the playing field not level now?

- in media like games and films, where women are still stereotyped

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q

- in jobs, where women are far less likely to be CEOs and other high ranking positions like president (which is why hillary's run is so special). they are also more likely to be fired from these jobs.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/17/female-ceos-more-likely-than-men-to-be-fired

- in wages where women have a gap with men but how far behind is up for dispute although women are definitely behind and some say 20 cents behind and even worse for the other cultures

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/if-you-care-about-closing-the-gender-wage-gap-read-this-before-you-vote/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=20161101feed_equalpay

- in maternity pay where women still aren't treated properly in america but rest of world has made progress. this is not a right that men have but women need to have it.

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2014/06/Screen_Shot_2014_06_20_at_7.47.55_AM/lead_large.png

- in workplace where women are more likely to be sexual harassed and treated unequally

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/19/1-in-3-women-sexually-harassed-work-cosmopolitan_n_6713814.html

just tip of iceberg.

Oh honey..did..I..lol. I just feel bad at this point, like picking on a kid in a wheelchair.

You seriously linked me to an article from HilaryClinton.com

Oh and the Huff Post. Bless your heart child.

At this point what can I say in the face of that massive amount of evidence you just bombed me with?!

well whatever the evidence is there and you can ignore it but the feminist movement will keep going whatever happens. your arrogant tone is so typical of patriarch types but you won't be so smug when hillary gets elected and changes start to happen. also nothing wrong with citing huffpost and hillaryclinton.com when they actually get statistics from well known research and have no reason to really lie at all... unlike far right websites that make propaganda.

I just..wow. This is why social justice needs to be left out of colleges.

I'm really getting tired of all the grammar in here. It's gotta stop guys.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
well whatever the evidence is there and you can ignore it but the feminist movement will keep going whatever happens. your arrogant tone is so typical of patriarch types but you won't be so smug when hillary gets elected and changes start to happen. also nothing wrong with citing huffpost and hillaryclinton.com when they actually get statistics from well known research and have no reason to really lie at all... unlike far right websites that make propaganda.

Okay look I will genuinely try to engage you a bit. You talk about things like the wage gap and stuff, but there isn't a wage gap. That doesn't mean there isn't a gap, there is a gap. But it's not with wages, but earnings.

Scenario: You and I both are equally skilled at a certain profession. We both get a job where we are paid the exact same wage. After a year has gone by, it's not guaranteed we will have made the same amount of money though, because you have to take into account not just how much someone is paid, but how often they work. If I work 5 days a week and you work 4 days a week, I'm going to earn more money than you in a year, even though we are doing the same job with the same pay.

Stuff like that is what causes the gap. Studies show that, on average, women tend to work less hours than men. Studies show that, on average, women tend to take more time off of work than men do(not counting maternity leave).

There is an earnings gap, and that is where the whole thing of "a woman earns 77 cents for every dollar a man earns" comes from. On top of that, the gap seems to shrink even more when you consider the professions out there where your experience can play a part in your wages as well. There are a lot of variables here and when push comes to shove..if you could just legally pay a woman less then every business would hire nothing but females..right?

This is an example of ways people are mislead. People do the same thing with the rape culture in regards to the claims of "1 and 5 women are sexually assaulted". People put that kind of stat out there without really giving any context and looking at the specific studies they pull that stuff from. Now here is the problem with that: sexual assault still exists. Even if that stat is wrong, it doesn't mean it's not a problem. In other words, there is no logical reason to even inflate this issue into something it isn't..because we still have actual sexual assaults to deal with. So people just end up doing more harm than good with this type of propaganda.

So when I'm snarky she can respond but when I come with facts...*crickets chirping* . Alrighty then.

lol forgot about this. and i don't see any facts there so sorry. just typical propoganda that is spewed to apoligize for the patriarch people who pay women less...... there is no justification for there actions.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
lol forgot about this. and i don't see any facts there so sorry. just typical propoganda that is spewed to apoligize for the patriarch people who pay women less...... there is no justification for there actions.

I don't even understand how you can respond like this given the "facts" you provided about the wage gap. It's not like I didn't read your links. Maybe you should look closely, because the link makes the claim that Trump's campaign pays women less than men, which even if true..I'm not quite sure if you understand that has nothing to do with the wage gap?

Furthermore, the rest of the "facts" in the article are just them saying the 77 cent thing, only now it's apparently up to 80 cents.

Which I already explained to you where that comes from in the first place, and how it has to do with earnings.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/if-you-care-about-closing-the-gender-wage-gap-read-this-before-you-vote/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=tw&utm_campaign=20161101feed_equalpay

Just in case you missed it, there is the very link you gave me about this. It's actually downright troubling an article like that is on what I can only assume is Hilary's official website.

Also when you complain about women and their portrayal in video games it just sounds like utter nonsense. 95% of all villains in games are men. In fact, pretty much any time you are fighting an enemy that isn't a robot in a game, it's a man you are killing. Do you see men whining that games are anti-men? Are people getting upset at every media portrayal which shows men as bumbling doofuses?

As for things like there are not a lot of women CEO's, do you think perhaps the fact women on average tend to not work as many hours as men do and tend to take more time off work than men do has anything to do with that?

You also talk about maternity pay as a reason that there isn't equality. Or in the fact the phrase I used was "in what ways is the playing field not level". I'm not saying our ways with maternity pay are perfect.

On the other hand, are men also given time off after the birth for maternity leave? Do men get maternity leave at all? I admit, I don't know much about the maternity issue. So you might indeed have a point with that I do not know. Since I just figure yeah..a woman has to take off once she gets to a certain stage in her pregnancy. But it's not like once she has the kid she is just back at work in a few days, right? The maternity leave usually extends to like..spending a few weeks or even months caring for the baby?

Kindness is love and isn't a bad thing.

Expecting some special treatment for yourself or group that you don't think another group should get is arrogant and selfish.

Opening the door isn't flirting, it's the patriarchy's way of saying I AM A MAN AND YOU ARE A FEEBLE WEAK WOMAN WHOSE ARMS ARE TOO FRAGILE TO OPEN DOORS.

I love equality though, no more of this "female push ups" bullshit. Do it like a man, ladies, not a pussy.

I can't wait for the MWNBA. Men and Women's National Basketball Association. It will be grrrreat. Even if only 3 people watched, that is 2 more people than the WNBA gets to watch their games.

Missionary and doggy position is sexist. It implies male dominance over the female. Cowgirl isn't sexist though, because I don't like you poking holes in my logic.

And also against girls who identify as reverse cows.

But now they're in reverse.

Doggystyle isn't just sexist, it's racist against dogs.

Speaking of sexism, I feel really bad when men are sexist against women. I lose sleep whenever a male judge gives a woman a more lenient sentence for a violent crime. It hurts me to know that awful patriarch has hurt her with his patriarch ways. If I had a daughter I doubt I could even look her in the eye knowing the utter monster that is my gender wouldn't treat her fairly in a court.

The concept of chivalry is only sexist if you interpret it as men viewing women as in a position of weakness, thus, aiding them.

But, here's the wubba lubba dub-dub: The entire feminist movement is based on the idea that women are in a position of weakness, thus, need an organized movement to aid them.

If chivalry is sexist, then by that same logic, feminism is sexist. It's a double-edged sword.

Is that something feminists are willing to accept in their crusade against chivalry?

Originally posted by MovieFreak92
The concept of chivalry is only sexist if you interpret it as men viewing women as in a position of weakness, thus, aiding them.

But, here's the wubba lubba dub-dub: The entire feminist movement is based on the idea that women are in a position of weakness, thus, need an organized movement to aid them.

If chivalry is sexist, then by that same logic, feminism is sexist. It's a double-edged sword.

Is that something feminists are willing to accept in their crusade against chivalry?

This entire argument is based on an equivocation fallacy.