Originally posted by pym-ftw
he did it twice. First in part 1 while sealing Oro's curse seal and again in Kakashi gaiden during Kakashi's mission.
Kyuubi isn't a physical body he's pure Chakra. "killing instinct" isn't a genjutsu.
I remember it being some type of paralysis jutsu... But what ever it doesnt matter kisame doesnt have feats that support him beating kenpachi.
Originally posted by yungz22
Killer bees's feats dont become kisame's featsKisame has never once dodged bee's lariat he isnt a speed demon... And when he was in samehada mode bee was handicapped because he had to protect his enka master and fight at the same time. Plus be chose not to go bijuu mode cuz he was trying to hide from his brother. Bee didnt fight to his full capacity during that fight
Kisame is faster than Killer Bee in the water. He was even able to absorb enough chakra to revert him to his first mode in the time it took Killer Bee to land one lariat.
Killer Bee only had that handicap for a few seconds. He managed to get them out soon by using the hachibii's tentacles.
Kisame was able to fight on par with 7th gate Gai when he was at full power and trying to kill him. Gai even admitted Kisame would have won, but Gai doesn't use any chakra when in his gate modes.
The fight between them was only a minute or two long. Raikage showed up afterwards and they killed the zetsu clone of him, WHICH WAS 30% POWER, if you recall.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Kisame is faster than Killer Bee in the water. He was even able to absorb enough chakra to revert him to his first mode in the time it took Killer Bee to land one lariat.Killer Bee only had that handicap for a few seconds. He managed to get them out soon by using the hachibii's tentacles.
Kisame was able to fight on par with 7th gate Gai when he was at full power and trying to kill him. Gai even admitted Kisame would have won, but Gai doesn't use any chakra when in his gate modes.
The fight between them was only a minute or two long. Raikage showed up afterwards and they killed the zetsu clone of him, WHICH WAS 30% POWER, if you recall.
Once gai opened 7 gates it was over kisame never fough on par with him. Also when did gai ever say kisame would have beat him. Scans? If gai were forced to go 8th gates kisane would get destroyed.
Killer bee never used full power in that fight.
Kenpachi can bust a meteor which is much larger than that water arena kisame made he can just as easily slash the water away as he did in the gremmy fight..... Also kisame was mortally wounded by killer bees lariat if it wasnt for his sword he would died against be in one hit. Kenpachi with one is way stronger that bee's lariat he would literally cut kisame in half. He would decimate him if he used kenpo style.
Honestly kisame would be dead before he even got to samehada mode
Kenpachi has tanked missle strikes, survived space like dimensions, survived bombs that rival deidara's bombs in dc. Hes tanked attacks that were way more powerful than bee's lariat.
Originally posted by yungz22
Once gai opened 7 gates it was over kisame never fough on par with him. Also when did gai ever say kisame would have beat him. Scans? If gai were forced to go 8th gates kisane would get destroyed.Killer bee never used full power in that fight.
Kenpachi can bust a meteor which is much larger than that water arena kisame made he can just as easily slash the water away as he did in the gremmy fight..... Also kisame was mortally wounded by killer bees lariat if it wasnt for his sword he would died against be in one hit. Kenpachi with one is way stronger that bee's lariat he would literally cut kisame in half. He would decimate him if he used kenpo style.
Honestly kisame would be dead before he even got to samehada mode
Kenpachi has tanked missle strikes, survived space like dimensions, survived bombs that rival deidara's bombs in dc. Hes tanked attacks that were way more powerful than bee's lariat.
Kisame insinuated that he would have won if Gai's attack used chakra. But it doesn't. Duh. I'm not saying Kisame could phuck up Jyuubidara.
Killer Bee might as well have. It has been constituted from his Enka's statements, as well as the Hachibi's itself, that the "second version" of jinchuriki transformation is just as strong as the biju itself, but is condensed into an even more dangerous form. That's why the edo tensei jinchuriki's were able to fight off the eight tails without going full Biju.
Kisame's water is chakra infused. It took the level of power that Gai in his seventh gate holds to force it back. Kenpachi can't hold a candle to that. And? If it wasn't for Kenpachi's sword, he wouldn't have cut the meteor in half. 👆 Kenpachi using Kendo would do nothing. Kisame can fight on par with mountain busting tiers. He survived a lariat in his normal form from second mode Killer Bee, who has all the strength of his Biju. The Hachibi destroyed a mountain range and forest by spinning his tails. A lariat from it has at least mountain+ level potential. Meaning Kisame's able to tank that in his shark skin mode. Even Kenpachi isn't at that level. Not to mention his speed is nothing compared to Killer Bee and Kisame's.
Kisame wouldn't even need it. He would make a few clones, vomit out an ocean, and Kenny would drown, or be killed by thousands of shark bombs that he can't defend against. Or maybe he'd use his superior speed to trap Kenny in a water prison and drain his reiatsu until he drowned.
Gremmy's strongest bomb, made from half of his body, wasn't anywhere near the level of Deidara's normal blasts, let alone his strongest one, which covers OVER 10 MILES, and that's just the blast radius. The outer space pocket was nothing. Kisame has tanked much greater heat by getting hit by Gai's attacks.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaKisame insinuated that he would have won if Gai's attack used chakra. But it doesn't. Duh. I'm not saying Kisame could phuck up Jyuubidara.
Killer Bee might as well have. It has been constituted from his Enka's statements, as well as the Hachibi's itself, that the "second version" of jinchuriki transformation is just as strong as the biju itself, but is condensed into an even more dangerous form. That's why the edo tensei jinchuriki's were able to fight off the eight tails without going full Biju.
Kisame's water is chakra infused. It took the level of power that Gai in his seventh gate holds to force it back. Kenpachi can't hold a candle to that. And? If it wasn't for Kenpachi's sword, he wouldn't have cut the meteor in half. 👆 Kenpachi using Kendo would do nothing. Kisame can fight on par with mountain busting tiers. He survived a lariat in his normal form from second mode Killer Bee, who has all the strength of his Biju. The Hachibi destroyed a mountain range and forest by spinning his tails. A lariat from it has at least mountain+ level potential. Meaning Kisame's able to tank that in his shark skin mode. Even Kenpachi isn't at that level. Not to mention his speed is nothing compared to Killer Bee and Kisame's.
Kisame wouldn't even need it. He would make a few clones, vomit out an ocean, and Kenny would drown, or be killed by thousands of shark bombs that he can't defend against. Or maybe he'd use his superior speed to trap Kenny in a water prison and drain his reiatsu until he drowned.
Gremmy's strongest bomb, made from half of his body, wasn't anywhere near the level of Deidara's normal blasts, let alone his strongest one, which covers OVER 10 MILES, and that's just the blast radius. The outer space pocket was nothing. Kisame has tanked much greater heat by getting hit by Gai's attacks.
Almost everything you stated is speculation and untrue if bee's lariat was mountain level why didnt it destroy the mountain when sasuke dodged him and bee hit the ground
You said gai himself stated it.
Kenny has survived more than kisame could ever and has shown us he could dish out
Your credibility went down the drain when you wrote second version bijuu mode is as strong as the full powered hachibi himself.
Originally posted by yungz22
Almost everything you stated is speculation and untrue if bee's lariat was mountain level why didnt it destroy the mountain when sasuke dodged him and bee hit the groundYou said gai himself stated it.
Kenny has survived more than kisame could ever and has shown us he could dish out
Your credibility went down the drain when you wrote second version bijuu mode is as strong as the full powered hachibi himself.
When did bee use Lariat on Sasuke in the second form?
Kisame's smarter than Gai.
Killer Bee could survive more than Kenpachi could ever and has shown us he could dish out. And Kisame would have killed Killer Bee without Raikage's interference. 👆
"He's contained the power of the Hachibi in human form.", In other words, "He's as strong as the Hachibi, but smaller.".
👆
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
When did bee use Lariat on Sasuke in the second form?Kisame's smarter than Gai.
Killer Bee could survive more than Kenpachi could ever and has shown us he could dish out. And Kisame would have killed Killer Bee without Raikage's interference. 👆
"He's contained the power of the Hachibi in human form.", In other words, "He's as strong as the Hachibi, but smaller.".
👆
Killer bee would have beat kisame had he not been handicapped by tryna hide from his brother and protecting his enka master. You have to remember the only reason kisame was able to steal bee chakra is because bee was tryna stop kisame from killing his master and the racoon while he was in the water bubble.
Where does it say hes as strong or stronger than the full powered hachibi.
Regardless kisame would have still lost to gai. Had he survived the seventh gate. Gai would have opened the 8th and stomped him.
That may be true but bee isnt fighting kenpachi kisame is. And you cant attribute bee's feats to kisame.
Originally posted by yungz22
Killer bee would have beat kisame had he not been handicapped by tryna hide from his brother and protecting his enka master. You have to remember the only reason kisame was able to steal bee chakra is because bee was tryna stop kisame from killing his master and the racoon while he was in the water bubble.Where does it say hes as strong or stronger than the full powered hachibi.
Regardless kisame would have still lost to gai. Had he survived the seventh gate. Gai would have opened the 8th and stomped him.
That may be true but bee isnt fighting kenpachi kisame is. And you cant attribute bee's feats to kisame.
Killer Bee only had that handicap before they started fighting, and when they were in the huge bubble. All the other times, including when they escaped the bubble, Killer Bee had ample chances to win. But he couldn't.
I just showed you. That, and the fact that the Hachibi was unable to even hurt ONE of the second form Jinchuriki's, all point to them being almost as strong as the biju themselves, but also much faster, and smaller.
Why would Gai have opened the 8th gate? That would have been the biggest fail in fictional history. Kisame wasn't that important to begin with. And if he did, Kabuto could have brought him back with edo tensei, and made him constantly be in eight gate mode, and the shinobi alliance would have not stood a chance. Even Naruto and Sasuke would have been raped.
Anyway, why does it matter that Kisame would have lost to Gai either way? Kenpachi would probably get raped by base Gai, or at least 1st or 2nd gate.
I CAN link their feats together. If their abilities are relied upon physically, and the other can replicate or outdo them with the same means, then the other CAN ACHIEVE those feats, whether or not they have demonstrated so on panel. That's like saying that Goku can't blow up planets, even though Vegeta can.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Killer Bee only had that handicap before they started fighting, and when they were in the huge bubble. All the other times, including when they escaped the bubble, Killer Bee had ample chances to win. But he couldn't.I just showed you. That, and the fact that the Hachibi was unable to even hurt ONE of the second form Jinchuriki's, all point to them being almost as strong as the biju themselves, but also much faster, and smaller.
Why would Gai have opened the 8th gate? That would have been the biggest fail in fictional history. Kisame wasn't that important to begin with. And if he did, Kabuto could have brought him back with edo tensei, and made him constantly be in eight gate mode, and the shinobi alliance would have not stood a chance. Even Naruto and Sasuke would have been raped.
Anyway, why does it matter that Kisame would have lost to Gai either way? Kenpachi would probably get raped by base Gai, or at least 1st or 2nd gate.
I CAN link their feats together. If their abilities are relied upon physically, and the other can replicate or outdo them with the same means, then the other CAN ACHIEVE those feats, whether or not they have demonstrated so on panel. That's like saying that Goku can't blow up planets, even though Vegeta can.
This is naruto not dbz. Naruto doesnt have an extreme emphasis on power levels like dbzdoes. Naruto fights consist of strategy and rely on how different characters abilities contrast with one another. Bee and kisame fight very differently so you cant give them each others feats
In dbz you can scale because everybody is using basically the same means to fight which is ki
Saying bee uses some of the hachibi's power is not the same as someone saying its Stronger than the original.
Gai's ninja way is would not allow him to lose a fight like that he would gladly sacrifice himself for the sake of the viage that is how he is as a character. Any time he uses the gates he puts his body and life in danger for the sake of something he wants to protect. If seventh gate failed gai would glady use the 8th gate for the sake of his village.
Originally posted by yungz22
This is naruto not dbz. Naruto doesnt have an extreme emphasis on power levels like dbzdoes. Naruto fights consist of strategy and rely on how different characters abilities contrast with one another. Bee and kisame fight very differently so you cant give them each others featsIn dbz you can scale because everybody is using basically the same means to fight which is ki
Saying bee uses some of the hachibi's power is not the same as someone saying its Stronger than the original.
Gai's ninja way is would not allow him to lose a fight like that he would gladly sacrifice himself for the sake of the viage that is how he is as a character. Any time he uses the gates he puts his body and life in danger for the sake of something he wants to protect. If seventh gate failed gai would glady use the 8th gate for the sake of his village.
And? Goku and Gotenks fight very differently, but if Gotenks can blow a hole through reality by yelling, then so can Goku. Either way though, Kisame still PHYSICALLY trumped Killer Bee. The only handicap Killer Bee had was that he couldn't breathe under water.
He said he used the Hachibi's power in a human form. That's exactly what that means. Must I repost?
No he doesn't, Gai is an EXPERT at using the gates. He's able to use the eighth gate, and the evening elephant as well as night moth. The only risk he takes is being tired as hell afterwards, until you reach the eighth gate.
Plus, Kisame isn't that great of a threat. And AGAIN, I never said Kisame would beat Gai if he didn't use Hirudora, so you're arguing this point for no reason. Kisame WOULD have won though, if Gai used chakra instead of pure taijutsu. Solely because Kisame can absorb chakra through a lot of mediums, including his super shark bomb, which would have killed Raikage AND Bee if they weren't too fast for him to use it.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaDo you not know Dai, or are you unsure the context?
Um... What?
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Why would Gai have opened the 8th gate? That would have been the biggest fail in fictional history. Kisame wasn't that important to begin with. And if he did, Kabuto could have brought him back with edo tensei, and made him constantly be in eight gate mode, and the shinobi alliance would have not stood a chance.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And? Goku and Gotenks fight very differently, but if Gotenks can blow a hole through reality by yelling, then so can Goku. Either way though, Kisame still PHYSICALLY trumped Killer Bee. The only handicap Killer Bee had was that he couldn't breathe under water.
once again saying he said it uses its power is not the same as saying this form is stronger than the the hachibi itself.
Is a newly charged battery more powerful that its source just because it uses the sources power? No it is not
dbz relies on power levels to gauge each others characters tiering.
Naruto does not because its tiering relys on different characters abilities like sharingan, byakugan and the many different types of ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu style. Not to mention bloodline abilities chakra types and other hax techniques. DBZ is Totally different.
Not being able to breathe was his only handicap? did you not see when bee had them two in his hands while he was swimming in the water his priority shifted towards them mainly the whole fight. Kisame used that to his advangtage to take away bee's ability to fight back thats a handicap.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-39730-9/naruto/chapter-471.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-1/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-4/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-5/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-6/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-7/naruto/chapter-472.html
bee eventually was able to move kisame to save his freinds but because he was trying to protect them kisame took his chakra. That olus running out of air is why kismae won. He fought a bee that wasnt really fighting back to the best of his ability.
once bee got his chakra back and took the fight seriously he and his brother blitzed him. With Kisame saying "you guys sure are fast" in astonishment
Originally posted by chasedown
once again saying he said it uses its power is not the same as saying this form is stronger than the the hachibi itself.Is a newly charged battery more powerful that its source just because it uses the sources power? No it is not
dbz relies on power levels to gauge each others characters tiering.
Naruto does not because its tiering relys on different characters abilities like sharingan, byakugan and the many different types of ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu style. Not to mention bloodline abilities chakra types and other hax techniques. DBZ is Totally different.
Not being able to breathe was his only handicap? did you not see when bee had them two in his hands while he was swimming in the water his priority shifted towards them mainly the whole fight. Kisame used that to his advangtage to take away bee's ability to fight back thats a handicap.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-39730-9/naruto/chapter-471.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-1/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-4/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-5/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-6/naruto/chapter-472.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-40192-7/naruto/chapter-472.htmlbee eventually was able to move kisame to save his freinds but because he was trying to protect them kisame took his chakra. That olus running out of air is why kismae won. He fought a bee that wasnt really fighting back to the best of his ability.
once bee got his chakra back and took the fight seriously he and his brother blitzed him. With Kisame saying "you guys sure are fast" in astonishment
Again, you're twisting the words to fit your argument. Everyone see's the scan, so your attempt at saving face is just making you look stupid. He said, "He's using the power of the Jyuubi in a human form.".
Your analogy doesn't fit. If I used a power source to suck up the energy of the sun, I hold the energy of the sun in the source. If I just used a solar panel, then I'm just using some of the suns energy. There is a MASSIVE difference. He didn't make the distinction, so we take the statement in it's context. He said Killer Bee uses the power of the Hachibi, so we have to assume he meant all of it, as he didn't elaborate. Honestly, he shouldn't have had to. The statement was there because Kishi wanted it to be.
Not to mention that you're still dodging the part where the second form Jinchuriki's beat up the Hachibi without it landing a hit.
Each of the second form jinchuriki were able to casually stop the Hachibi's fist, and they are all weaker than second form Bee, due to him having more tails. Even more proof.
It only took Bee a few pages to save them, and he didn't get any chakra stolen, because if you recall, he used the eight tails suction cups, and not chakra cloaks. 👆
Kisame was weakened and out of his shark mode at that point. Not to mention he was against the freakin' Raikage and Killer Bee. He could react to it, but simply couldn't land his attack in time. And if you ALSO remember, that was a Zetsu clone. THOSE USE 30% OF THE USERS ACTUAL POWER. 👆
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Again, you're twisting the words to fit your argument. Everyone see's the scan, so your attempt at saving face is just making you look stupid. He said, "He's using the power of the Jyuubi in a human form.".Your analogy doesn't fit. If I used a power source to suck up the energy of the sun, I hold the energy of the sun in the source. If I just used a solar panel, then I'm just using some of the suns energy. There is a MASSIVE difference. He didn't make the distinction, so we take the statement in it's context. He said Killer Bee uses the power of the Hachibi, so we have to assume he meant all of it, as he didn't elaborate. Honestly, he shouldn't have had to. The statement was there because Kishi wanted it to be.
Not to mention that you're still dodging the part where the second form Jinchuriki's beat up the Hachibi without it landing a hit.
Each of the second form jinchuriki were able to casually stop the Hachibi's fist, and they are all weaker than second form Bee, due to him having more tails. Even more proof.
It only took Bee a few pages to save them, and he didn't get any chakra stolen, because if you recall, he used the eight tails suction cups, and not chakra cloaks. 👆
Kisame was weakened and out of his shark mode at that point. Not to mention he was against the freakin' Raikage and Killer Bee. He could react to it, but simply couldn't land his attack in time. And if you ALSO remember, that was a Zetsu clone. THOSE USE 30% OF THE USERS ACTUAL POWER. 👆
Lmao just cant admit being wrong can you. So instead you try to change the subject and deviate from whats being debated. Everything you just put is speculative bs Smh
Lol heres another example superman uses the power of the sun but does that make him as powerful as the sun? No
Originally posted by yungz22
Lmao just cant admit being wrong can you. So instead you try to change the subject and deviate from whats being debated. Everything you just put is speculative bs SmhLol heres another example superman uses the power of the sun but does that make him as powerful as the sun? No
Change the subject? I proved my point, the only ones shying away from this is you and Chasedown, by even suggesting that I'm trying to "change the subject", lol. Nothing I showed was speculation, in fact, that's what you're using when downplaying Enka's statement. Not to mention that I also showed a scan of second form Jinchuriki's displaying Biju level strength against the Hachibi.
That analogy is as pointless to bring up as the battery thing. Superman absorbs the sun's energy like a solar panel, and again, that is as pointless as you changing the subject by bringing up Superman in the first place. If the sun turned into a human, then the human would be using the power of the sun, RIGHT? Yes, the second biju form was the Hachibi becoming a human, as per Enka's statement.
This isn't debatable, so it's pointless for you to be replying at this point at all. 👆
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Change the subject? I proved my point, the only ones shying away from this is you and Chasedown, by even suggesting that I'm trying to "change the subject", lol. Nothing I showed was speculation, in fact, that's what you're using when downplaying Enka's statement. Not to mention that I also showed a scan of second form Jinchuriki's displaying Biju level strength against the Hachibi.That analogy is as pointless to bring up as the battery thing. Superman absorbs the sun's energy like a solar panel, and again, that is as pointless as you changing the subject by bringing up Superman in the first place. If the sun turned into a human, then the human would be using the power of the sun, RIGHT? Yes, the second biju form was the Hachibi becoming a human, as per Enka's statement.
This isn't debatable, so it's pointless for you to be replying at this point at all. 👆
Im not down playing anything saying your using someone elses power isnt the same as saying its as strong as or stronger than the source. If anything your the one try put words in the enka master's mouth.
Is the green lantern's ring as strong as the battery itself? No
When thanos uses the power from the in infinity stones does that mean hes stronger than the stones themselves? No
When aizen uses the power of the hogyoku does that make him as strong as or stronger than the hogyoku itself? No
These are just some of the many examples out there and they are relavent because each of them take power from their respective sources and like bee they are not more powerful than the sources.