Originally posted by Enzeru
Can you back that statement up?
Originally posted by cdtm
Going by comic fights:Thor = Gladiator = Supreme = Omni Man < Invincible
Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't think Thor can fight Supreme to a double KO and wake up earlier than him. When Supreme was using Heat Vision and Omni-man only used his strength.
I would peg evil Supreme to be stronger than Thor. The supreme who Omni-man fought was specifically stated to be stronger than previous Supremes and beat Suprema to a pulp.
King Hyperion was also stated to be stronger than other Hyperions and he beat all the Thors and Sentries, but still got stopped by Blue Marvel.
So first of all, statements don't matter that much and that was even backed up by the fight itself, where Supreme and Omni-Man knocked each other out with an attack, that only left a big crater.
To take that even further the most impressive showing of any Invincible character was, when three Viltrumites (including Invincible and Omni-Man) decided to destroy a planet, but they had to rely on powerful tech to breach through the surface, because they knew they would die upon impact otherwise.
And once they bullrushed through the planet and gained some distance it finally exploded and the explosion knocked out every single combatant, including the most powerful Viltrumites, who were much more powerful than Invincible, including some other beings, who are more powerful as well.
Do you think that an adult Thor would die, if he flew into a planet at full speed? I don't.
And in Thor's most recent fights against Gorr for example we saw what he was capable off. Strikes which were not only shattering the planet he was on, but also a nearby moon were only tearing up his muscle tissues.
Originally posted by abhilegend
And why not? That fight with Supreme was done by the company which owns both Invincible and Supreme and isn't a crossover like JLA/Avengers.
Many fights end up being underwhelming and also end in stalemates. We can't really judge too much from them, especially when the characters are portrayed in a way, they haven't been portrayed in in a while.
Supreme, who fought Omni-Man didn't come even close to Alan Moores version of Supreme.
Of course we don't dismiss the showings of a character from the past, so Supreme has still his credibility no matter what, but at the same time we don't assume that Omni-Man would be able to replicate the stuff Supreme has done, simply because he somewhat stalemated Supreme and it was portrayed like they were equals. Simply a different take on Supreme at that point.
It's like Superman and Captain Marvel... It has been stated that they are equals multiple times, but everyone still considers Superman to be much more powerful, simply because he has more and better feats.
The same applies for Thor. He has more and better feats than Omni-Man AND even Supreme.
There is a difference between the overall powerlevel in the Marvel universe and in the Image universe. Thor wouldn't die upon impact with a planet and not even if he flies faster than the Viltrumites (which he does).
With all of that being said I still don't see young Thor knocking out Invincible in under 10 minutes. In my opinion there is no way he could lose that fight in the long run, but Invincible is more than durable enough to withstand the damage for 10 minutes. It would be a good fight, but he would ultimately lose.
Now take adult Thor and give him additionally Mjolnir to smite even harder and it turns into a very bad day for Invincible / Omni-Man / anyone, since then not only more striking power comes into place, but also overall more damage and much greater feats to back all of that up.
Originally posted by EnzeruHe proved it by beating up Suprema who if you don't know has lifted entire universe.
King Hyperion was also stated to be stronger than other Hyperions and he beat all the Thors and Sentries, but still got stopped by Blue Marvel.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16414198/Supreme_tasks_1.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16414199/Supreme_tasks_2.jpg.html
And who is equal to normal Supreme. So pardon me if I don't use that analogy where statements are the only thing given. He destroyed a planet the very next issue after Omni-Man fight, albeit with a power up.
So first of all, statements don't matter that much and that was even backed up by the fight itself, where Supreme and Omni-Man knocked each other out with an attack, that only left a big crater.That's nothing to be ashamed about. Not every fight is gauged by collateral damage. Odin and Surtur killed themselves in a fight that didn't even made a crater. So, no it has no bearings on how powerful Supreme and Omni-man were. Normal Supreme is a damn high herald on his own. This supreme was even stronger.
To take that even further the most impressive showing of any Invincible character was, when three Viltrumites (including Invincible and Omni-Man) decided to destroy a planet, but they had to rely on powerful tech to breach through the surface, because they knew they would die upon impact otherwise.Thor has almost died from far less. In fact he was near dead with the shockwaves from a planet destroying missile in one of his best durability feats to date.And once they bullrushed through the planet and gained some distance it finally exploded and the explosion knocked out every single combatant, including the most powerful Viltrumites, who were much more powerful than Invincible, including some other beings, who are more powerful as well.
Do you think that an adult Thor would die, if he flew into a planet at full speed? I don't.
And in Thor's most recent fights against Gorr for example we saw what he was capable off. Strikes which were not only shattering the planet he was on, but also a nearby moon were only tearing up his muscle tissues.And then he was beaten to a bloody pulp by Angela albeit weakened under the same writer. Young Thor would've died from Apocalypse's attacks which only sent shockwaved to two hundred miles. In fact I can show you more than half dozen scenes where a planet destroying act is stated and shown to be able to be fatal for Thor. Just recently everyone on Earth died from Exitar blowing up earth and moon. So, it all depends on the day and how the writer feels.
Many fights end up being underwhelming and also end in stalemates. We can't really judge too much from them, especially when the characters are portrayed in a way, they haven't been portrayed in in a while.😂
Supreme, who fought Omni-Man didn't come even close to Alan Moores version of Supreme.
Alan Moore's supreme was pathetic. Dude was getting beaten up by Maul FFS.
Of course we don't dismiss the showings of a character from the past, so Supreme has still his credibility no matter what, but at the same time we don't assume that Omni-Man would be able to replicate the stuff Supreme has done, simply because he somewhat stalemated Supreme and it was portrayed like they were equals. Simply a different take on Supreme at that point.Under the same writer? Lulz. You'll do anything to dismiss anything you don't like. Guess what? That's not how it goes around here.
It's like Superman and Captain Marvel... It has been stated that they are equals multiple times, but everyone still considers Superman to be much more powerful, simply because he has more and better feats.Actually it has been stated only one time. Superman has been stated to be more powerful in actual comics. More than once.
The same applies for Thor. He has more and better feats than Omni-Man AND even Supreme.He also has much worse showings than them too. Its all about averages.
There is a difference between the overall powerlevel in the Marvel universe and in the Image universe. Thor wouldn't die upon impact with a planet and not even if he flies faster than the Viltrumites (which he does).I can show you Thor simply freezing to near death in space, much less striking to a planet at high speed. In fact just falling from orbit to a planet has KTFO him. Thor isn't the paragon of durability and strength like you're pretending to be.
With all of that being said I still don't see young Thor knocking out Invincible in under 10 minutes. In my opinion there is no way he could lose that fight in the long run, but Invincible is more than durable enough to withstand the damage for 10 minutes. It would be a good fight, but he would ultimately lose.Invincible would **** up young Thor something bad.
Now take adult Thor and give him additionally Mjolnir to smite even harder and it turns into a very bad day for Invincible / Omni-Man / anyone, since then not only more striking power comes into place, but also overall more damage and much greater feats to back all of that up.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Thor has almost died from far less.
I've said it once and I'm going to say it again: If you can't beat them, lowball them.
Originally posted by abhilegend
In fact he was near dead with the shockwaves from a planet destroying missile in one of his best durability feats to date.
Let me translate that real quick for everyone else... Raj: "I don't know anything about Thor."
Originally posted by abhilegend
Young Thor would've died from Apocalypse's attacks which only sent shockwaved to two hundred miles.
Didn't Superman punch Mongul with bad intentions, which sent him flying 200 miles away? And here we have Thor tanking a punch, that sent out shockwaves for 200 miles.
Surely you would argue that Superdudebro can punch harder than Omni-Man and Invincible, right? Is that right, Raj?
Originally posted by abhilegend
In fact I can show you more than half dozen scenes where a planet destroying act is stated and shown to be able to be fatal for Thor. Just recently everyone on Earth died from Exitar blowing up earth and moon. So, it all depends on the day and how the writer feels.
Yes, Raj... Everyone on Earth died from EXITAR BLOWING UP the Earth and the Moon. You know, Exitar as in the Celestial, who woud blow up Superman, Omni-Man and Invincible.
And in Thor we have someone, who has been hit by the attacks of Celestials and continued to fight.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Invincible would **** up young Thor something bad.
Yeah, that wouldn't be the case.
And in case you're wondering, why I didn't bother adressing the rest of your post:
You have to be clinically insane to post stuff like that and since I value my mental health, I won't even bother with you.
Can Young Thor knockout Invincible under 10 min for a forum win? Sure.. A well placed lightning and a finisher with Jarnbjorn can definitely pull t off. Can he do it often enough that it can be considered the norm? Nah.. Invincible easily has the damage soak to go plenty of rounds without getting KO'd under 10 min.
Originally posted by cdtm
Going by comic fights:Thor = Gladiator = Supreme = Omni Man < Invincible
While ABC Logic, this is accurate enough to show Mark is in the high tier league of Thor. What gives Mark the edge for sure is the fact he has a good healing factor in battle (mild one) to keep chugging, and the fact Invincible is SOOOO much faster than Thor by alot in combat speed.
I think Mark can win a fight as long he speed blitzes.
Originally posted by CadenceV2
While ABC Logic, this is accurate enough to show Mark is in the high tier league of Thor.
No, it's not, because there is much more evidence, that he doesn't perform on that level. And this is now not me lowballing Invincible, but stating that we can't assume that Omni-Man and Invincible are capable of doing everything Supreme has done.
And you also totally ignore the fact that characters in the Invincible universe can't destroy planets, while that's something fairly common for Marvel high heralds.
Omni-Man and Invincible are not high heralds. Terrax, who is a low herald has destroyed a planet in the past. It took three Viltrumites to destroy one planet and they even relied on the help of a fourth one, whose actions prevented them from dying in the first place, while going for the planet bust.
Raj is trying to lowball Marvel characters and you're trying to overhype Invincible characters.
Originally posted by cdtm
Going by comic fights:Thor = Gladiator = Supreme = Omni Man < Invincible
I dont think Mark has surpassed his dad just yet id be willing to bet he's still a hair or more below omni man.
On a related note, Battle Beast Vs Thragg is next issue. BATTLE BEAST VS THRAGG IS NEXT ISSUE!
Originally posted by Enzeru
No, it's not, because there is much more evidence, that he doesn't perform on that level. And this is now not me lowballing Invincible, but stating that we can't assume that Omni-Man and Invincible are capable of doing everything Supreme has done.And you also totally ignore the fact that characters in the Invincible universe can't destroy planets, while that's something fairly common for Marvel high heralds.
Omni-Man and Invincible are not high heralds. Terrax, who is a low herald has destroyed a planet in the past. It took three Viltrumites to destroy one planet and they even relied on the help of a fourth one, whose actions prevented them from dying in the first place, while going for the planet bust.
Raj is trying to lowball Marvel characters and you're trying to overhype Invincible characters.
All very fair enough points, however there is one thing I like to point out.
You state Invincible cannot blow up a planet, very true, but he can fly through one with the core punctured by a fist size laser, and can survive the explosion of a planet with no real damage.
Also I never seen Thor crack a planet. I heard people claim he has done so in the Gorr arc, however when I read it, he cracked a moon a bit, not bust a planet. There was statements of Planet being destroyed IIRC, but non of it supported or shown on panel.
So I see no reason why Thor should be compared to Heralds when Silver Surfer casually showed superiority to Thor in their last encounter. By encounter I meant the one where Surfer was holding back against a very angry Thor while Odin was soundly beaten by Galactus.
Also I agree Thor should win in any case against Mark in a straight up fight. His feats and powers are a huge obstacle. However his speed feats have always been lacking I find. Spider Man danced around Thunderstrike easy (Not the same I suppose, but he had Thors powers IIRC), Wolverine manage to dodge and get good attacks on Thor a few times (King Thor one time, and a more recent fight another), and Quicksilver has danced around Thor until he was brought low by a Area of Effect attack by Thor when taunting. Even Cap has commented how Thor is slow when comparing Thunder Strike to him during training simulation.
All in all if Mark Speed Blitz at his massively hyper sonic speeds, or ftl speeds in a space battle, I see no reason he cannot pull wins.
Originally posted by JayDaDon
I dont think Mark has surpassed his dad just yet id be willing to bet he's still a hair or more below omni man.On a related note, Battle Beast Vs Thragg is next issue. BATTLE BEAST VS THRAGG IS NEXT ISSUE!
Originally posted by CadenceV2
You state Invincible cannot blow up a planet, very true, but he can fly through one with the core punctured by a fist size laser, and can survive the explosion of a planet with no real damage.
No real damage, but they were all far away from the planet and the explosion still KOed everyone on the battlefield, including characters, who are much more powerful than Invincible.
Originally posted by CadenceV2
So I see no reason why Thor should be compared to Heralds when Silver Surfer casually showed superiority to Thor in their last encounter. By encounter I meant the one where Surfer was holding back against a very angry Thor while Odin was soundly beaten by Galactus.
Thor was badly hurt in that fight and Silver Surfer also commented on that. Thor's track record against Silver Surfer is much better than vice versa and Silver Surfer has also stated that Mjolnir is more powerful than he himself is.
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Also I agree Thor should win in any case against Mark in a straight up fight. His feats and powers are a huge obstacle. However his speed feats have always been lacking I find. Spider Man danced around Thunderstrike easy (Not the same I suppose, but he had Thors powers IIRC), Wolverine manage to dodge and get good attacks on Thor a few times (King Thor one time, and a more recent fight another), and Quicksilver has danced around Thor until he was brought low by a Area of Effect attack by Thor when taunting. Even Cap has commented how Thor is slow when comparing Thunder Strike to him during training simulation.
All of that is true and I agree that Thor would have problems dealing with opponents, who have a speed advantage, but there is still one thing that backs him up (and this is now strictly, when feats are being compared and not the fights he has been in against certain characters):
For example Thor VS Superman... Many argue (including myself) that Thor would lose that fight, simply because Superman is the much faster character. He could use his speed advantage to punch Thor over and over again in the face, until he scores a K.O. and Thor wouldn't have an answer to that, simply because he is too slow. Even Thor's highest speed showing is not good enough to compete with someone as fast as Superman.
But with that being said... Thor's best durability showing is much higher than Superman's best damage output showing. So if we argue that Thor would never be able to hit Superman, because Superman has much better speed showings, then why shouldn't we argue that Superman will never be able to bring Thor down, who can tank more damage than Superman can dish out?
But this is the point where obsessed fanboys like Raj jump in and start throwing out statements like: "Yeah, but Thor has been knocked out by [insert random ass low showing]!" ...
Originally posted by Enzeru
No real damage, but they were all far away from the planet and the explosion still KOed everyone on the battlefield, including characters, who are much more powerful than Invincible.
They all looked to have the wind knocked out of them, but again no lasting damage at all shown as they all were back to fighting the next page.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Thor was badly hurt in that fight and Silver Surfer also commented on that. Thor's track record against Silver Surfer is much better than vice versa and Silver Surfer has also stated that Mjolnir is more powerful than he himself is.
I see, however most of Thor's previous wins over Surfer was way before Surfer's Annihilation Wave upgrade yes? Or did Surfer lose that?
Originally posted by Enzeru
All of that is true and I agree that Thor would have problems dealing with opponents, who have a speed advantage, but there is still one thing that backs him up (and this is now strictly, when feats are being compared and not the fights he has been in against certain characters):For example Thor VS Superman... Many argue (including myself) that Thor would lose that fight, simply because Superman is the much faster character. He could use his speed advantage to punch Thor over and over again in the face, until he scores a K.O. and Thor wouldn't have an answer to that, simply because he is too slow. Even Thor's highest speed showing is not good enough to compete with someone as fast as Superman.
But with that being said... Thor's best durability showing is much higher than Superman's best damage output showing. So if we argue that Thor would never be able to hit Superman, because Superman has much better speed showings, then why shouldn't we argue that Superman will never be able to bring Thor down, who can tank more damage than Superman can dish out?
But this is the point where obsessed fanboys like Raj jump in and start throwing out statements like: "Yeah, but Thor has been knocked out by [insert random ass low showing]!" ...
Thor does indeed have have insane showings of strength, but to be fair characters like Savage Hulk, Professor (or Merge) Hulk, Kurse, Juggernaut, and Namor (pretty good comic for the Prince) have all consistently gave Thor a hard time physically in drawn out fights. Thor has great durability, but I think beings like Invincible can take a toll on Thor when characters of that league can.
Just my opinion though in that Mark can only pull a win from a combination of speed blitzing and using his speed to avoid attacks.
Originally posted by CadenceV2I guess the writer speaking through narration is not enough eh? Add the fact that two celestial bodies one of which was a great distance away were shattering during that narration... Seems like you think directly punching a planet is infinitely more impressive. He couldn't possibly bust a planet. 🙁
All very fair enough points, however there is one thing I like to point out.You state Invincible cannot blow up a planet, very true, but he can fly through one with the core punctured by a fist size laser, and can survive the explosion of a planet with no real damage.
Also I never seen Thor crack a planet. I heard people claim he has done so in the Gorr arc, however when I read it, he cracked a moon a bit, not bust a planet. There was statements of Planet being destroyed IIRC, but non of it supported or shown on panel.
Originally posted by CadenceV2Surfer casually showed superiority? Oh you mean how he was stalemating a Thor with a huge gaping wound? That superiority?
So I see no reason why Thor should be compared to Heralds when Silver Surfer casually showed superiority to Thor in their last encounter. By encounter I meant the one where Surfer was holding back against a very angry Thor while Odin was soundly beaten by Galactus.Also I agree Thor should win in any case against Mark in a straight up fight. His feats and powers are a huge obstacle. However his speed feats have always been lacking I find. Spider Man danced around Thunderstrike easy (Not the same I suppose, but he had Thors powers IIRC), Wolverine manage to dodge and get good attacks on Thor a few times (King Thor one time, and a more recent fight another), and Quicksilver has danced around Thor until he was brought low by a Area of Effect attack by Thor when taunting. Even Cap has commented how Thor is slow when comparing Thunder Strike to him during training simulation.
All in all if Mark Speed Blitz at his massively hyper sonic speeds, or ftl speeds in a space battle, I see no reason he cannot pull wins.
Thor shouldn't be compared to heralds? I really can't help you there. 🙁
Why mention Spidey dance around a character who's not even him?
A holding back Thor vs Wolvie who fell prey to an illusion. Who consequently got tagged easily anyway.
Quicksilver dodging a lightning strike then got easily subdued in a couple of panels while Thor himself says how he's vanquished foes even swifter is not him merely dancing around Thor.
Don't remember this Cap and Thunderstrike instance you're talking about.
Seems like all the instances you've mentioned (even irrelevant ones) were brought up for one purpose only. Sorry to say, but I do smell a lowballin hater.... Hmm.....
Originally posted by EnzeruHaha, like you aren't doing the same.
I've said it once and I'm going to say it again: If you can't beat them, lowball them.
Let me translate that real quick for everyone else... Raj: "I don't know anything about Thor."Oh really? I have read more Thor comics than you've read scans about him.
Didn't Superman punch Mongul with bad intentions, which sent him flying 200 miles away? And here we have Thor tanking a punch, that sent out shockwaves for 200 miles.He was about to get killed with next headbutt. That's not tanking.
Surely you would argue that Superdudebro can punch harder than Omni-Man and Invincible, right? Is that right, Raj?Superman is Superman. Thor isn't.
Yes, Raj... Everyone on Earth died from EXITAR BLOWING UP the Earth and the Moon. You know, Exitar as in the Celestial, who woud blow up Superman, Omni-Man and Invincible.The attack only destroyed earth and moon. Majestic has taken a blast that destroyed earth and moon. Same as Superman. Ergo they are more durable than everyone on marvel earth.
And in Thor we have someone, who has been hit by the attacks of Celestials and continued to fight.He was almost killed by three attacks and Gaea had to save him. Context.
Yeah, that wouldn't be the case.Because you say so? Not good enough.
And in case you're wondering, why I didn't bother adressing the rest of your post:Translation: I've nothing to counter. But reported anyway.
You have to be clinically insane to post stuff like that and since I value my mental health, I won't even bother with you.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, like you aren't doing the same.
No, I'm not. I am looking at the greatest feats characters had throughout the years and compare them with each other.
You on the other hand are purposely searching for low showing of the character you want to see losing and use these as your arguments.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Translation: I've nothing to counter. But reported anyway.
That was enough to report me? Let me give you a real reason to report me:
Raj, you're the biggest idiot on this entire board. LITERALLY the biggest idiot on this entire board.
You might think that it's Carver due to his overall HULK RULEZZZ nature, but Carver at least sometimes even makes sense. The problem with Carver are the limitations his favorite character has, which also prevent that said character from winning any forum battles - but Carver's mind can't process and accept that, because the character is doing well in comics, where things are simply different.
You might think that I'm the idiot, for constantly bashing you, but no no ...
You are.
Your style of debating is absolutely abysmal. If I was to open a Powerless Superman VS Wolverine thread, you would be arguing for Superman, because Wolverine got knocked out by a deer.
It boggles my mind to read your shitty way of lowballing Superman's opponents, or actually any opponent of a character Superman has been associated with in any way, shape or form.
And then there is also your disgusting ignorance towards real life problems of forum members and even women.
You should have been banned long time ago, you troll.
Edit: Also LOL @ surviving three attacks of Celestial being a low showing. Common sense.
