Ferguson Riots

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
From this I take it you have no idea how our country's laws work.

Grand Jury indicts off of probable cause.

Then it goes to a trial.

As he was not found to have probbable cause there was no reason to go to trial.

Comparing this to Zimmerman trial is simply not understanding the laws of the constitution of the United States of America.

Do you understand?

I know what you're trying to say and the pedants will probably ***** and moan about the inaccuracies in your post so I'll clear them up, now:

It was determined that there was not enough probable cause to go to a trial (jury trial, sometimes). Probable cause refers to the potential criminal case, not necessarily to the defendant. Basically, a prosecutor obtains, "enough probable cause" to proceed with an official criminal prosecution. This was not found in this case by the grand jury as there was ample evidence to show that all 4 potential criminal charges would not stick.

Yes, the comparison with Zimmerman is not a good one. There was some ambiguity regarding that Zimmerman case as the "Stand Your Ground" law was making it difficult to determine if Zimmerman should get set free or not. The forensic evidence was clear enough to support, roughly, what Zimmerman was saying and what others were saying. That was not what was disputed in the Zimmers case. What was disputed is if he had legal justification to shoot Martin. Sure, there were lots of disputations going on with the Zimmerman case on whether or not Martin beat the shit out of Zimmerman (he did...and I think Zimmerman deserved his ass kicked and Martin did not deserve to die), but they determined it did not break the law in a jury trial. They got the indictment for the Zimmerman case because there was too much interpretation on the law.

In this case, they just needed to collect enough evidence for a grand jury hearing to see if there was any criminal activity from Wilson. Based on the evidence even we have, the evidence much more closely fits Wilson's story than some of the contradicting eye-witnesses. It was probably much easier for the grand jury in this case to determine there's nothing that can stick. The grand jury did their job: prevented a shitty charge from going to jury trial so that it doesn't waste time and resources on an un-win-able case for the "state", as it were. That's pretty much the purpose of a grand jury: stop shitty cases or malicious cases from going through the whole legal process.

To summarize, the George Zimmerman Jury Trial is not comparable to the Wilson Grand Jury hearing. The cases were very much different.

Edit - Also, I'd like to point out that I said I was on the fence about the Wilson stuff but, as time and more evidence has come out, since Wilson's story seems to be strongly supported by the evidence, I no longer consider myself a fence sitter. I think Wilson could have handled the situation better and he probably should not work as a cop for the rest of his life but I do not think he did anything criminal.

Objectively speaking, I'm not surprised by the outcome of the Grand Jury precedings because, taking into account all of the particulars of this case, this wasn't just the "unarmed innocent black man killed by lawless white cop" narrative that people and certain elements in the media are trying to put forward. This was a violent suspect from a robbery who got into an altercation with an officer, during which the officer's firearm involuntarily discharged twice, attempting to flee the scene of the incident. Once Brown decided he was bold enough to fight with the cop he made himself fair game. Assault on a Peace Officer changes the rules of engagement, and the firearm discharging during the altercation gave the officer justified fear for his life and safety. I wish Mike Brown were simply apprehended and incarcerated for his crime rather than killed, and I have real sympathy for the family who has lost a son, but Mike Brown is no f*ckin martyr, and the protests and conflation of this incident with essentially every grievance that my people have from the last few decades is horribly misplaced, and frankly disgusting. These riots are idiotic and accomplish nothing. There's a conversation and actions which need to take place within the black community regarding our values as a community and the opportunity and atmosphere for advancement we can foster with the resources and effort we can collectively bring to bare. Assessing blame based on pigmentation and tossing around racism as a catch all cause for any hardship we face isn't going to solve anything. Moreover, it alienates those that would otherwise be sympathetic to an injustice on it's base merits. The indoctrination into despair and victimhood needs to stop. We need to have some introspection and personal accountability. Mike Brown was essentially a mutated "Free Boosie" campaign that went viral. IMO, his case wasn't a cause to be championed, but he became a lightning rod for a bunch of other festering cancers and wounds in the community due to the proximity between this incident and other shootings (Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, Trayvon Martin, etc), and those wounds are erupting in a flood of rage and catharsis.

i hate the fact that we get caught up on this type of shit when there's real problems to solve.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Objectively speaking, I'm not surprised by the outcome of the Grand Jury precedings because, taking into account all of the particulars of this case, this wasn't just the "unarmed innocent black man killed by lawless white cop" narrative that people and certain elements in the media are trying to put forward. This was a violent suspect from a robbery who got into an altercation with an officer, during which the officer's firearm involuntarily discharged twice, attempting to flee the scene of the incident. Once Brown decided he was bold enough to fight with the cop he made himself fair game. Assault on a Peace Officer changes the rules of engagement, and the firearm discharging during the altercation gave the officer justified fear for his life and safety. I wish Mike Brown were simply apprehended and incarcerated for his crime rather than killed, and I have real sympathy for the family who has lost a son, but Mike Brown is no f*ckin martyr, and the protests and conflation of this incident with essentially every grievance that my people have from the last few decades is horribly misplaced, and frankly disgusting. These riots are idiotic and accomplish nothing. There's a conversation and actions which need to take place within the black community regarding our values as a community and the opportunity and atmosphere for advancement we can foster with the resources and effort we can collectively bring to bare. Assessing blame based on pigmentation and tossing around racism as a catch all cause for any hardship we face isn't going to solve anything. Moreover, it alienates those that would otherwise be sympathetic to an injustice on it's base merits. The indoctrination into despair and victimhood needs to stop. We need to have some introspection and personal accountability. Mike Brown was essentially a mutated "Free Boosie" campaign that. IMO, his case wasn't a cause to be championed, but he became a lightning rod for a bunch of other festering cancers and wounds in the community due to the proximity between this incident and other shootings (Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, Trayvon Martin, etc), and those wounds are erupting in a flood of rage and catharsis.

Yes, as I was reading how the "likely events" played out, it looks like Brown was on something. He seemed out of his mind with the things he was doing. When his family and friends say he was a "gentle giant", I tend to believe them. Even if his family have a biased view of their boy, there was probably quite a bit of good about him. His actions on the day of this day are so opposite of how people viewed him that it seems like he was hopped up on drugs OR had gotten mixed up with a shitty crowd the last few months of his life (and the potential gang signs he was throwing up in some of his most recent photos may have something to do with that).

Originally posted by red g jacks
i hate the fact that we get caught up on this type of shit when there's real problems to solve.

👆

Like 2 million homeless American children, right?

Or the hundreds of thousands of American children who are suffering from hunger?

When I see us spend so much money on the F-35 and we have problems like that, I realize how incredibly f*cked up our priorities are, in America.

We can't even begin constructive dialogues on the matters because if you try to point them out you're labelled a sell out or Uncle Tom. And Black Women are losing their f*ckin minds. My Mom cursed me out and said I forgot I was black simply because I'm not going along with the group think that's rampant right now and can stand back and assess things rationally. Black People aren't the f*ckin Red Lantern Corps. I think (for myself), therefore I am.

Originally posted by dadudemon
👆

Like 2 million homeless American children, right?

Or the hundreds of thousands of American children who are suffering from hunger?

When I see us spend so much money on the F-35 and we have problems like that, I realize how incredibly f*cked up our priorities are, in America. [/B]

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yes, as I was reading how the "likely events" played out, it looks like Brown was on something. He seemed out of his mind with the things he was doing. When his family and friends say he was a "gentle giant", I tend to believe them. Even if his family have a biased view of their boy, there was probably quite a bit of good about him. His actions on the day of this day are so opposite of how people viewed him that it seems like he was hopped up on drugs OR had gotten mixed up with a shitty crowd the last few months of his life (and the potential gang signs he was throwing up in some of his most recent photos may have something to do with that).

Yeah, dude made a series of bad choices that day that led to his death.

Mike Brown:

-Stole some cigars to get high because he didn't have enough money for the purchase he wanted to make.
-Assaulted the clerk who was attempting to stop him from walking of with merchandise he hadn't paid for
-Got the police called on him for that
-Walks in the middle of the street with his stolen goods drawing attention to himself
-Argues with an officer who approaches him and his friend who simply asked them to get out of the street
-Fights with that same officer who had pulled away and doubled back on him when the APB came through on his robbery
-Flees the scene of the altercation with the officer after the officer's gun discharges twice
-Disobeys the officer's commands to freeze and get on the ground, and charges the officer.

That's 8 strikes with the bullet being the ninth and final out.

Originally posted by Bardock42
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side

This whole article pretty much boils down to "But he wouldn't have acted irrationally!"

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/07/25/st-louis-county-police-officer-charged/

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Objectively speaking, I'm not surprised by the outcome of the Grand Jury precedings because, taking into account all of the particulars of this case, this wasn't just the "unarmed innocent black man killed by lawless white cop" narrative that people and certain elements in the media are trying to put forward. This was a violent suspect from a robbery who got into an altercation with an officer, during which the officer's firearm involuntarily discharged twice, attempting to flee the scene of the incident. Once Brown decided he was bold enough to fight with the cop he made himself fair game. Assault on a Peace Officer changes the rules of engagement, and the firearm discharging during the altercation gave the officer justified fear for his life and safety. I wish Mike Brown were simply apprehended and incarcerated for his crime rather than killed, and I have real sympathy for the family who has lost a son, but Mike Brown is no f*ckin martyr, and the protests and conflation of this incident with essentially every grievance that my people have from the last few decades is horribly misplaced, and frankly disgusting. These riots are idiotic and accomplish nothing. There's a conversation and actions which need to take place within the black community regarding our values as a community and the opportunity and atmosphere for advancement we can foster with the resources and effort we can collectively bring to bare. Assessing blame based on pigmentation and tossing around racism as a catch all cause for any hardship we face isn't going to solve anything. Moreover, it alienates those that would otherwise be sympathetic to an injustice on it's base merits. The indoctrination into despair and victimhood needs to stop. We need to have some introspection and personal accountability. Mike Brown was essentially a mutated "Free Boosie" campaign that went viral. IMO, his case wasn't a cause to be championed, but he became a lightning rod for a bunch of other festering cancers and wounds in the community due to the proximity between this incident and other shootings (Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, Trayvon Martin, etc), and those wounds are erupting in a flood of rage and catharsis.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
We can't even begin constructive dialogues on the matters because if you try to point them out you're labelled a sell out or Uncle Tom. And Black Women are losing their f*ckin minds. My Mom cursed me out and said I forgot I was black simply because I'm not going along with the group think that's rampant right now and can stand back and assess things rationally. Black People aren't the f*ckin Red Lantern Corps. I think (for myself), therefore I am.

Airing the dirty laundry, are ya. I applaud you, sir, for your insight, courage and honesty.

Originally posted by red g jacks
like when i see the president on tv commenting on some random court case just cause he's black and has to try to sort of keep the peace this shit feels like a big show. it should be on cartoon network.

Clinton went on TV when the 1992 LA riots were going down; he's a white-man, as I'm sure you know

Originally posted by Mindship
Airing the dirty laundry, are ya. I applaud you, sir, for your insight, courage and honesty.

More people need to do it, frankly. Deluding ourselves that the problems we face are the machinations of everyone else due to our skin tone rather than taking some onus on ourselves for our actions (or inactions), coupled with the culture so many of us promote and perpetuate creates the conditions for this type of situation to continue happening. The rest enable it by not speaking out. The Moderates who provide cover for the cancer. We have to do some housekeeping. We need to reign in our youth and show them a better way. We need to stop acting like every incarcerated black man is a political prisoner and every black man that dies is a martyr. We need to stop championing anti-intellectualism. We need to raise the bar.

Originally posted by Quincy
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/07/25/st-louis-county-police-officer-charged/

I don't see the relevancy. I feel dumb. What am I missing?

Oh I thought that linked right to their local news page

Originally posted by Quincy
Oh I thought that linked right to their local news page

It linked to an article about a St. Louis officer getting into trouble over assaulting a train rider with his baton.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Agreed, when black thugs kill white cops its treated as "shrugs"

But when white cops defend themselves against black thugs, its racism.

Things like this makes me sad to be a Superman fan. My ilk aren't the best..

Originally posted by Based
Things like this makes me sad to be a Superman fan. My ilk aren't the best..

LOL. He speaks the truth. I guess you think it's ok to assault a police officer, huh? Seriously, if Brown had been white or the officer black then no one would've made a big deal out of it. You certainly wouldn't see people running around like animals looting and setting businesses on fire like savages just because they don't agree with the jury's decision.

Yeah, you're right. Our "ilk" apparently aren't the best if there are more like you that are Superman fans who think it's ok to try to take a gun from a police officer. Last I heard, Superman at least respects the laws of all of humanity even if he doesn't agree with them. It appears you and all the blacks in Ferguson don't though since they steal and burn the businesses down of innocent people who had nothing to do with the jury's decision.

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. He speaks the truth. I guess you think it's ok to assault a police officer, huh? Seriously, if Brown had been white or the officer black then no one would've made a big deal out of it. You certainly wouldn't see people running around like animals looting and setting businesses on fire like savages just because they don't agree with the jury's decision.

Yeah, you're right. Our "ilk" apparently aren't the best if there are more like you that are Superman fans who think it's ok to try to take a gun from a police officer. Last I heard, Superman at least respects the laws of all of humanity even if he doesn't agree with them. It appears you and all the blacks in Ferguson don't though since they steal and burn the businesses down of innocent people who had nothing to do with the jury's decision.

Why is it that people can't separate the idea that there is a difference between someone who is protesting and someone who is looting?

Originally posted by Quincy
Why is it that people can't separate the idea that there is a difference between someone who is protesting and someone who is looting?

I understand the difference just fine. Do you?

Originally posted by Quincy
Why is it that people can't separate the idea that there is a difference between someone who is protesting and someone who is looting?

👆

I don't view the looters are protesters. I view them as criminals. 😉

There are those that protested, peacefully. Good on them and I'm glad this country still allows things like that to happen.