Ferguson Riots

Originally posted by Lestov16
And what happened to them?

One of them was co-valedictorian of our high school graduating class. 🙂

She wasn't even remotely close to being the smartest person in our class but she busted her ass. Then, she went to college and got a masters in education. Now she teaches elementary students, she has a beautiful daughter, and she married an educated serviceman who is an officer in the Air Force (he came from a similarly poor background in Detroit and met her while Stationed at Tinker Air Force Base here in OKC).

As for the others: one was a mentally retarded boy who moved away to CA with his family when I was 10.

The other got into drugs when he was a teenager (the neighbor across the street) and was in and out of jail for years before going away for a while for armed robbery.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Also, no you didn't. The generation I know and the one you knew were vastly different.

I don't know what you're talking about, at this point. I grew up in Section 8 housing until was 5, I grew up surrounded by, almost exclusively, African Americans, and I grew up poor. These are the people I'm talking about when I refer to being poor, uneducated, and disadvantaged (Socio-economically) from birth. I was there with them and shared all of those same traits. The only thing I did not share with them was the color of my skin.

I am not sure what I am supposed to be understanding from your current dialogue.

Originally posted by Lestov16
You think it's that easy to understand. Many black people, particularly the poverty stricken ones, have parents, grandparents, and descendants systematically oppressed by racism, which dissuaded higher learning (which was sometimes legally banned and punishable by death), behavior which those parents passed on to their kids. Additionally, consumerism and criminal lifestyles are endorsed by popular culture. You can't blame black people for their ignorance when they are just now getting the chance to exercise their freedom from it and still influenced by pop culture to maintain it.

YouTube video

those people in the video went to my school a few years ahead of me and a lot of the haitians i knew down there either knew them or knew someone who did. not that i want this to impress anyone i just want you to know where i am coming from.

tbh a lot of people from my town take pride in that gang land episode... i think it's sick. people basically killing each other for the sake of it. but i can say from first hand experience that in these areas and schools the basic mentality is that being a drug dealer and a gangsta is cool and tough and desirable. it will win you women and respect etc. there are plenty of people who ignored that and took the straight route. plenty of black, white and latino people who did just that. but then there are plenty of others who give in to that temptation while they're still young and set themselves on a path that is really hard to pull back from.

to answer DDD... there are a few primary differences between the white immigrants and modern ethnic minorities. back in the day the ethos of the time was to work hard and earn your own. yea there were gangsters and obviously there were gangsters in italy before those people ever got on the boat so they just brought that culture with them. but all in all most people wanted to be a respectable member of society i think. these days kids get blasted with a bunch of degenerate messages basically saying **** society, **** the police, **** the govt, etc. on top of that with black people you're dealing with people we just now made first class citizens after centuries of us living with a very different configuration. so there's a lot of differences really. time, culture, context, etc. you shouldn't necessarily expect a straight comparison just because both situations deal with the same basic in-group/out-group dynamic.

Originally posted by red g jacks
to answer DDD... there are a few primary differences between the white immigrants and modern ethnic minorities. back in the day the ethos of the time was to work hard and earn your own. yea there were gangsters and obviously there were gangsters in italy before those people ever got on the boat so they just brought that culture with them. but all in all most people wanted to be a respectable member of society i think. these days kids get blasted with a bunch of degenerate messages basically saying **** society, **** the police, **** the govt, etc. on top of that with black people you're dealing with people we just now made first class citizens after centuries of us living with a very different configuration. so there's a lot of differences really. time, culture, context, etc. you shouldn't necessarily expect a straight comparison just because both situations deal with the same basic in-group/out-group dynamic.

Let's be clear that African Americans were among the hardest working Americans in history. Let's not forget that they were literally worked to death by the thousands for a long period of time in our history. White people do not have a monopoly on hard work and hard working ethics. Granted, edentured servitude is functionally the same as slavery and many of the "white immigrants" were indentured servants for multiple generations, in some circumstances. But I think the African Americans had it worse than the others (besides, probably, Native Americans).

So hard work and working hard is definitely part of African American heritage. It is a fundamental part of their heritage. Many of the immigrants that came to America just a century ago came here under the notion that they could easily make lots of money (not quite the same as a hard working mentality). But, yes, I agree that everyone, especially African Americans, wanted to be respected members of society during the great Italian immigration.

So how did they rise up and overcome their circumstances? They simply kept working hard and took the abuse until they started owning businesses or could extend their influence beyond their little communities. They didn't give up. They didn't make excuses such as, "We don't have educations. We cannot speak proper English. We don't own anything. We don't have food. We don't have a way to get to work." etc. Those were all things that applied to the Italian immigrants, but they didn't make those excuses: they just worked. I posted it before but it took 2 generations (my grandparents) to get them into a respectable SES compared to the rest of America. It wasn't until the 3rd gen that this hard-working mentality helped them rise above the average.

Where was I going with that? Oh, yes: African Americans can improve their situation by improving their situation. Sounds tautological, I know. But only they can improve their situation. It will take, best case scenario, 2 generations before they see parity (I rally do think the Italian American situation was a best case scenario and they benefited from an economic boom right after WWII). As for the gangster culture in African Americans, I just don't buy it. That's not a good excuse.

and then they were able to go ahead and be part of white society. it's a unique situation we're in right now cause while i like the idea of multiculturalism the way we sort of stumbled into it was pretty awkward and is bound to create some waves. so when you see systematically that a certain group of people are ****ing up at that point you really do have to ask some questions about how and why that came to be and what is the appropriate systematic approach to fixing it.

Originally posted by red g jacks
and then they were able to go ahead and be part of white society. it's a unique situation we're in right now cause while i like the idea of multiculturalism the way we sort of stumbled into it was pretty awkward and is bound to create some waves. so when you see systematically that a certain group of people are ****ing up at that point you really do have to ask some questions about how and why that came to be and what is the appropriate systematic approach to fixing it.

Just try to integrate with society as a whole.
Abandon this ghetto/rapper mentality, get some proper education, stop doing violent things.

It's nearly 2015. Time to change this type of backwards thinking. And before you spew out the 'slavery' excuse, Asians and Caucasians used to be slaves as well.
Filipinos were slaves for more than 300 years by the Spaniards. Then by the Japanese for 50 more years. Then by the Americans.
The Barbary Slave Trade was worse than the 50-year slavery of American blacks.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's the real reason I am successful: I didn't like being poor as a child.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon

The Barbary Slave Trade was worse than the 50-year slavery of American blacks.

Blacks were slaves in america for more then 50 years

Slavery was a long time ago but let's not pretend it was only a single life span

Not to mention segregation and Jim Crow even after Slavery was abolished via the 13th amendment in 1865. African Slaves were brought to the Americas as early as 1620.

In New Jersey now. But saw saw the police and protesters when leaving from Brooklyn about 6 hours ago. Apparently it got larger.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
To echo what Dadudemon said, the only logical way to fix this situation is for them to start fixing it themselves.

Just try to integrate with society as a whole.
Abandon this ghetto/rapper mentality, get some proper education, stop doing violent things.

It's nearly 2015. Time to change this type of backwards thinking. And before you spew out the 'slavery' excuse, Asians and Caucasians used to be slaves as well.
Filipinos were slaves for more than 300 years by the Spaniards. Then by the Japanese for 50 more years. Then by the Americans.
The Barbary Slave Trade was worse than the 50-year slavery of American blacks.

sure, you can take the "pull yourself by the bootstraps" approach, that's certainly the easiest way to address any problem. to sit back and wait for things to sort themselves out. it's not like i disagree with you that the mentality a lot of people has to change. it just seems like a lot of white people are unwilling to admit the root cause of what is clearly a systemic problem.

Originally posted by red g jacks
er.. i wouldn't say it's the only logical approach. maybe the easiest. but yea... i dunno to me it's common sense that it isn't a coincidence that the nation's most historically oppressed ethnic group is also the one with these issues.

sure, you can take the "pull yourself by the bootstraps" approach, that's certainly the easiest way to address any problem. to sit back and wait for things to sort themselves out. it's not like i disagree with you that the mentality a lot of people has to change. it just seems like a lot of white people are unwilling to admit the root cause of what is clearly a systemic problem.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Then what do you expect them to do?
Move to the hoodlums and sack and pillage the streets? That everyone should adjust to the ghetto lifestyle? Form gangs, disturb the peace, and all that shit?
If everyone had that mentality, there'd be anarchy. It would be complete chaos. Our world wouldn't progress intellectually, economically, and technologically.

That's not what he said. He stated that the cause can not solely be attributed to black laziness. There are other sociological factors not inherent to the black community which play major contributions to their ignorance. I notice you immediately go to blaming black people directly for their problems instead of the media which created the culture by reinforcing their negative stereotypes.

I always figured some groups "handled slavery better" than others because those groups still had something that was utterly stripped from the Africans when they were being enslaved and shipped off: their culture. The Jews, Chinese, etc: these groups still had their culture to hold onto, something that bound them as a people. They still felt like they were part of something bigger than themselves, something that would survive the horrific ordeals they were going through and live on. But the Africans: everything, Everything was taken from them. And what we've seen for the last 50 years or so has been the effort to rebuild, albeit (and understandably) mixed with anger/resentment (hence, eg, the gangsta culture).

People are still responsible for their choices though, despite the "isms" still in operation, determined to phuck 'em over, and I applaud any individual of any group who understands this. They make up for the morons each demographic invariable harbors.

👆

Oh Mindship that was well put

Originally posted by Lestov16
👆

Originally posted by Quincy
Oh Mindship that was well put

Originally posted by red g jacks
and then they were able to go ahead and be part of white society.

This is explicitly rejected by older Italian Americans. They were definitely not able to integrate with white America, in the beginning. Even if they tried, they couldn't, because of their physical appearance and names. It wasn't until they raised their SES that they were able to integrate. They first had to raise SES before they were accepted. It didn't work the other way around. The chicken definitely came before the egg.

Originally posted by red g jacks
it's a unique situation we're in right now cause while i like the idea of multiculturalism the way we sort of stumbled into it was pretty awkward and is bound to create some waves. so when you see systematically that a certain group of people are ****ing up at that point you really do have to ask some questions about how and why that came to be and what is the appropriate systematic approach to fixing it.

Right now, in America, I think the best way to succeed is to be born half Native American and half African American. You just have to be an average student and and average employee and you'll see better success than most Americans.

The worst case scenario is to be born as a poor white American. The has the steepest "success" slope.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Abandon this ghetto/rapper mentality, get some proper education, stop doing violent things.

Exactly. Italian Americans had to abandon this quite thoroughly before they could be take seriously as professionals. Even till today, this "Italian gangster" racist stereotype still exists.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Filipinos were slaves for more than 300 years by the Spaniards. Then by the Japanese for 50 more years. Then by the Americans.

The Barbary Slave Trade was worse than the 50-year slavery of American blacks.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about Filipinos. And they had their culture ripped from them in their own native country...which is pretty disgusting.

Originally posted by Lestov16
That's not what he said. He stated that the cause can not solely be attributed to black laziness. There are other sociological factors not inherent to the black community which play major contributions to their ignorance. I notice you immediately go to blaming black people directly for their problems instead of the media which created the culture by reinforcing their negative stereotypes.

Blacks are lazy for one reason, because they have been taught that everyone owes them something especially the government. And what does the government do? Keeps on giving.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Blacks are lazy for one reason, because they have been taught that everyone owes them something especially the government. And what does the government do? Keeps on giving.

Giving poor African Americans 8 week jobs, over the summer, keeps them out of trouble much more often and that single summer job for 8 weeks keeps them out of trouble for over a year (it is a percentage).

Basically, my point is, just give young black men something to do and they will keep out of trouble. The issue is, they don't have jobs. There is racism against African Americans when it comes to jobs. Still. 2014. And some of those places that they live don't really have jobs available. They'd have to move. Most people are unwilling to do that. So they fester in the ghettos.