Ferguson Riots

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is explicitly rejected by older Italian Americans. They were definitely not able to integrate with white America, in the beginning. Even if they tried, they couldn't, because of their physical appearance and names. It wasn't until they raised their SES that they were able to integrate. They first had to raise SES before they were accepted. It didn't work the other way around. The chicken definitely came before the egg.

while italians and all those other ethnicities might have had it bad in one way or another i think from what i have learned about american history anyway that none of them even come close to comparing to the systematic cultural, political and financial oppression of the black community both in america and other slave colonies (haiti etc).

Right now, in America, I think the best way to succeed is to be born half Native American and half African American. You just have to be an average student and and average employee and you'll see better success than most Americans.

The worst case scenario is to be born as a poor white American. The has the steepest "success" slope.

plus you have to keep in mind that being black or native american comes with the statistical likelihood that you'll grow up in worse neighborhoods, go to worse schools and be exposed to worse influences from day one. so you might not be the same level headed you if the cards were shuffled and you were dealt a different hand.

Originally posted by dadudemon
"They have it so tough and cannot succeed with our help!" is racism.

Originally posted by red g jacks
my grand dad was from italy... he was a white man and considered himself white. what you're talking about is the fact that white people used to discriminate against other white ethnicities.. so the irish, the italians, poles etc might have been marginalized and self segregated in their own ways. but basically within a generation or two a white italian could marry a white irish and have generically white kids (i'm basically describing my grandparents tbh). not really the same as the white on black racism that was a part of the culture not only in this country but going back centuries if not thousands of years. shit even my grandparents were blatantly racist themselves. if you brought a black person around them they were a "mulignan" or whatever. italians are basically just a certain flavor of white people at the end of the day.

I disagree mostly because my family has direct experience with this discrimination and they were considered dagos, WOPs, etc. While their hair skin are a dead give away that they are Italian, they considered themselves "caucasian." That did not stop the systematic racism against them.

Luckily, I have never experienced this racism. People got over it. Maybe around 20 years before I was born. That's awesome...I mean, great for Italians. Not so great for our African American brethren, however. They still experience this racism.

Originally posted by red g jacks
while italians and all those other ethnicities might have had it bad in one way or another i think from what i have learned about american history anyway that none of them even come close to comparing to the systematic cultural, political and financial oppression of the black community both in america and other slave colonies (haiti etc).

I don't know, man. I can't really buy that. Sure, the discrimination against Italian Americans was much shorter lived, but it was every bit as harsh as it was against African Americans including the disgustingly horrible working conditions that worked them to their deaths. I don't think you are aware of how badly the discrimination and racism against Italians actually was.

Do you want to know what the President of the United States had to say about the largest mass lynching in American History (and it was Italians lynced, not blacks, as most people would assume)? "...a rather good thing." That's crazy!

To make it seem a bit more clear how badly Americans thought of Italians:

"John Parker, who helped organize the lynch mob, later went on to be governor of Louisiana. In 1911, he said of Italians that they were 'just a little worse than the Negro, being if anything filthier in [their] habits, lawless, and treacherous.'"

What the Italians also were up against, as new arrivals to America, was the very large anti-Catholic sentiments. Americans generally did not like Catholics.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/10/opinion/falco-italian-immigrants/

Originally posted by red g jacks
maybe on paper... realistically being black has its advantages in certain scenarios and being white has its advantages in other scenarios. i would rather be black when applying for the scholarship but i'd definitely rather be white when dealing with the police in some of the areas i've lived in.

I agree with this. I cannot find anything wrong with it. I agree that, on paper, they have better advantages right from birth, just because of who their ancestors are. I definitely agree with your last statement: when a young black man is stopped by police, he is a far greater chance of being brutalized, falsely charged, killed, or incarcerated, than any other race demographic in America, for something he did wrong.

Originally posted by red g jacks
plus you have to keep in mind that being black or native american comes with the statistical likelihood that you'll grow up in worse neighborhoods, go to worse schools and be exposed to worse influences from day one.

I'm in Oklahoma. The state where it seems like every other student in school is Native American. It is not as bad as it used to be when it comes to being Native American. Living directly on some of the more isolated reservations can be quite horrible, however.

Originally posted by red g jacks
so you might not be the same level headed you if the cards were shuffled and you were dealt a different hand.

I probably would be. I was born into one of the worst situations possible. I was brought into this world almost homeless. Perhaps I would have fared better being born homeless, actually, because the place I grew up was really bad. I wish I was dealt a better hand than I was. I still think that, due to the influence of my mother and grandfather, I was destined to succeed. I had 2 very important authority figures not giving up on me and harping on the idea that I should succeed. Many young black men do not have that.

Take away those 2 people and I bet you we wouldn't be having this conversation. 🙂

Originally posted by red g jacks
who said that though?

That's the rhetoric, not a direct quote.

To better explain, if you tell someone the following, "That stove is quite hot. You will get horribly burned if you touch it. You may even lose a bit of digital mobility if you burn yourself badly enough." the rhetoric is, "Do not touch that stove."

Similar to white liberals always stating, "The black man can't do anything for himself! He's too dumb, lives in poor places, and everybody hates him!" The rhetoric from that is, "He is helpless."

Originally posted by red g jacks
it is an option is all i said. not "black people are doomed if we do nothing" i see progress personally. it's slow but it is happening. my friend is going to school for accounting and he grew up on welfare, his mom didn't finish middle school etc.

I agree. I think the best way we can help the impoverished (which includes the black community) is by having better education opportunities and reducing crime AND recidivism. And by opportunities, I don't mean, "Black American Scholarship", I mean public schools that actually give a damn about black children and their success.

Lately I was thinking back to all the public service messages/after school specials that concerned racism in America that I saw as a kid. They're obviously well-intentioned, but what occurs to me now is that they treat racism like a dangerous disease that arises from some people and needs to be stopped before it can spread. They're so deeply humanist--and mind you, I'm a humanist myself--that they don't want to recognize that racism, in varying degrees, is present everywhere and in everyone. They're aimed at fighting overt, high intensity racism from bigots and racebaiters, or on condemning institutionalized racism of the past so that it's never repeated, but it seems to me that the underlying message here is that racism has been more or less beaten, we just need to finish it off; that humans are essentially accepting and that we just need to be reminded that everyone is equal. They overlook the very subtle, subconscious or even unconscious instances of racism that creep up on the most rational and goodhearted people. For example, I lock my car doors when driving through North Miami, a predominately black area, even though I've never been threatened by anyone there and I know the crime levels aren't even that much higher than other parts of the MMA.

As Americans, we have to stop denying that racism is still as strong as it's ever been in a lot of places, that while laws are in place that in theory abrogate institutionalized racism, there are still a lot of assumptions and expectations that put limits on minorities, but especially blacks', acheivements and aspirations.

But most importantly, there is a disturbing complacency with the deaths of blacks, either in gang violence or at the hands of the police.

A colleague of mine said it best when speaking of the controversies over Brown and Garner and others: "They've made me understand that we really don't matter."

I agreed, and told her that if I'd been in Garner's place--a middle class white man with a well-off, respectable family and prospects--the cop who choked me to death would already be off the force, possibly on trial, someone high up in the Staten Island justice system would either be fired or facing calls to fall on his sword, and someone would be writing a law named after me.

There are a lot of white people who don't want to admit that, who'll try to deny it, but racism is very powerful in our society, and black people just aren't valued the same as whites.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I disagree mostly because my family has direct experience with this discrimination and they were considered dagos, WOPs, etc. While their hair skin are a dead give away that they are Italian, they considered themselves "caucasian." That did not stop the systematic racism against them.

Luckily, I have never experienced this racism. People got over it. Maybe around 20 years before I was born. That's awesome...I mean, great for Italians. Not so great for our African American brethren, however. They still experience this racism.

but really i dunno what you're disagreeing with? i said there is racism by whites against other kinds of whites. italians aren't the only ones. my irish grandad would call them a wop and my italian grandad would call him a mick bastard. but at the end of the day they'd both call a black guy ******.

I don't know, man. I can't really buy that. Sure, the discrimination against Italian Americans was much shorter lived, but it was every bit as harsh as it was against African Americans including the disgustingly horrible working conditions that worked them to their deaths. I don't think you are aware of how badly the discrimination and racism against Italians actually was.

Do you want to know what the President of the United States had to say about the largest mass lynching in American History (and it was Italians lynced, not blacks, as most people would assume)? "...a rather good thing." That's crazy!

I'm in Oklahoma. The state where it seems like every other student in school is Native American. It is not as bad as it used to be when it comes to being Native American. Living directly on some of the more isolated reservations can be quite horrible, however.

I probably would be. I was born into one of the worst situations possible. I was brought into this world almost homeless. Perhaps I would have fared better being born homeless, actually, because the place I grew up was really bad. I wish I was dealt a better hand than I was. I still think that, due to the influence of my mother and grandfather, I was destined to succeed. I had 2 very important authority figures not giving up on me and harping on the idea that I should succeed. Many young black men do not have that.

Take away those 2 people and I bet you we wouldn't be having this conversation. 🙂

but i'm curious where you're from and what your story is like from the way you've been framing it.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lately I was thinking back to all the public service messages/after school specials that concerned racism in America that I saw as a kid. They're obviously well-intentioned, but what occurs to me now is that they treat racism like a dangerous disease that arises from some people and needs to be stopped before it can spread. They're so deeply humanist--and mind you, I'm a humanist myself--that they don't want to recognize that racism, in varying degrees, is present everywhere and in everyone. They're aimed at fighting overt, high intensity racism from bigots and racebaiters, or on condemning institutionalized racism of the past so that it's never repeated, but it seems to me that the underlying message here is that racism has been more or less beaten, we just need to finish it off; that humans are essentially accepting and that we just need to be reminded that everyone is equal. They overlook the very subtle, subconscious or even unconscious instances of racism that creep up on the most rational and goodhearted people. For example, I lock my car doors when driving through North Miami, a predominately black area, even though I've never been threatened by anyone there and I know the crime levels aren't even that much higher than other parts of the MMA.

As Americans, we have to stop denying that racism is still as strong as it's ever been in a lot of places, that while laws are in place that in theory abrogate institutionalized racism, there are still a lot of assumptions and expectations that put limits on minorities, but especially blacks', acheivements and aspirations.

But most importantly, there is a disturbing complacency with the deaths of blacks, either in gang violence or at the hands of the police.

A colleague of mine said it best when speaking of the controversies over Brown and Garner and others: "They've made me understand that we really don't matter."

I agreed, and told her that if I'd been in Garner's place--a middle class white man with a well-off, respectable family and prospects--the cop who choked me to death would already be off the force, possibly on trial, someone high up in the Staten Island justice system would either be fired or facing calls to fall on his sword, and someone would be writing a law named after me.

There are a lot of white people who don't want to admit that, who'll try to deny it, but racism is very powerful in our society, and black people just aren't valued the same as whites.

👆

It may seem dumb that the thing I choose to focus on is you locking your doors but I have an irrational fear of homeless white men and I lock my doors when they pass my car. I don't do the same to the black men...probably because I grew up around blacks (I've stated this before).

Anyway, to what you said about if you were in Garner's situation, you captured the issue succinctly. I cannot imagine police even caring about me selling cigs on a street corner much less arresting me. Just guessing, but I bet you they though he was selling MJ, at first.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lately I was thinking back to all the public service messages/after school specials that concerned racism in America that I saw as a kid. They're obviously well-intentioned, but what occurs to me now is that they treat racism like a dangerous disease that arises from some people and needs to be stopped before it can spread. They're so deeply humanist--and mind you, I'm a humanist myself--that they don't want to recognize that racism, in varying degrees, is present everywhere and in everyone. They're aimed at fighting overt, high intensity racism from bigots and racebaiters, or on condemning institutionalized racism of the past so that it's never repeated, but it seems to me that the underlying message here is that racism has been more or less beaten, we just need to finish it off; that humans are essentially accepting and that we just need to be reminded that everyone is equal. They overlook the very subtle, subconscious or even unconscious instances of racism that creep up on the most rational and goodhearted people. For example, I lock my car doors when driving through North Miami, a predominately black area, even though I've never been threatened by anyone there and I know the crime levels aren't even that much higher than other parts of the MMA.

As Americans, we have to stop denying that racism is still as strong as it's ever been in a lot of places, that while laws are in place that in theory abrogate institutionalized racism, there are still a lot of assumptions and expectations that put limits on minorities, but especially blacks', acheivements and aspirations.

But most importantly, there is a disturbing complacency with the deaths of blacks, either in gang violence or at the hands of the police.

A colleague of mine said it best when speaking of the controversies over Brown and Garner and others: "They've made me understand that we really don't matter."

I agreed, and told her that if I'd been in Garner's place--a middle class white man with a well-off, respectable family and prospects--the cop who choked me to death would already be off the force, possibly on trial, someone high up in the Staten Island justice system would either be fired or facing calls to fall on his sword, and someone would be writing a law named after me.

There are a lot of white people who don't want to admit that, who'll try to deny it, but racism is very powerful in our society, and black people just aren't valued the same as whites.

Originally posted by red g jacks
where is your family from and what time period? i'm curious.

but really i dunno what you're disagreeing with? i said there is racism by whites against other kinds of whites. italians aren't the only ones. my irish grandad would call them a wop and my italian grandad would call him a mick bastard. but at the end of the day they'd both call a black guy ******.

I disagree with the notion that they were treated as whites because they factually were not. I disagree with the notion that the vast majority could blend in because of our modern understanding that they are considered "whites", now. They weren't, then. They could not readily integrate. Very few Italian immigrants looked white, acted white, or could integrate with White American culture. To put it even more directly and briefly: Italian American immigrants, in general, most certainly did not integrate into white America.

Originally posted by red g jacks
that is crazy and i have heard some ****ed up stories and you're right, i probably don't know the full extent that they went through but i would still say being sold into chattle slavery for generations followed by second class citizenship written into law up until 50 years ago followed by white people finally reluctantly trying to treat them as equals is still worse.

I really can't disagree with your conclusion, at the end. Italian American's "shit-life" only lasted 40-ish years and it got gradually better after 1930. They didn't have 200-ish years of literal institutionalized racism raging against them when they made a huge effort to integrate. But, and here's the difference I think: African Americans are not making a huge effort to integrate into what they call "White-Culture." My opinion is, until they do that, they will continue to experience slow integration.

Originally posted by red g jacks
shouldn't have commented on native american tbh since i really have no experience with how they live.

You were correct, though: reservation life in America is sometimes atrocious. Not because the Government doesn't provide enough money and benefits. That's not the problem, at all. The problem is the tribes and culture on those reservations.

To be a bit more personal with this, my older brother and sister are my siblings. They are part Cherokee: enough to have full tribal rights, and privileges. My brother took advantage of some of those opportunities but he felt guilty about it because he didn't really need them to succeed. But if they both wanted a house, it can be largely paid for by the Cherokee nation. If they want all of their education paid for, including all 12 years it would take to be a Surgeon (which is what my sister was planning to do), they will pay for it all (but you have to work 2-5 years as an MD for the Cherokee Nation hospitals: a very reasonable requirement for paying hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of education, imo). If they want full medical and dental benefits, they have them. I can't even remember all the things that they can have just because they are part Cherokee, but you get the point. African Americans do NOT have nearly as many opportunities as my brother and sister do, however.

Originally posted by red g jacks
those authority figures mean a lot though man that's what i'm saying. you might not be you without them right? you were lucky to have the proper guidance.

You are correct. 👆 I can guarantee I'd be a f*ck-up because I born with a learning disability.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i really am not from money either which i sort of resent since my parents grew up in suburbia and then made dumb decisions and so i grew up broke on account of their dumb decisions but then i stayed broke due to my own dumb decisions and now i'm playing catch up basically.

Well, you seem to have done well for yourself. You seem to have a better education and you are better spoken/read than the majority of America, imo.

Originally posted by red g jacks
but i'm curious where you're from and what your story is like from the way you've been framing it.

My apologies for not making the clearer: Oklahoma. Oklahoma is not very well-to-do. My early childhood was in a poorish town. On the list of top 100 poorest counties in the US, Oklahoma has 4 listed. Oklahoma is also one of the poorest states in the US (41...but that number is very skewed by Tulsa and Oklahoma City which have very rich people living there do to big oil: the income disparity in Oklahoma is skewed by Big Oil). It wasn't a pretty situation. I never went naked but I did go hungry, at times. But those were few and far-between because we got welfare assistance from a church, which was wonderful (this is part of why I became a Mormon, later).

My situation was not nearly as bad as the bottom quintile of African Americans, imo. My father single-handed took us out of poverty and moved us to "rich-white-people town." As soon as he finished school, my shit-life ended. 😐

And even if they did think of arresting you for selling loose cigs, and even if you were the same size and build as Garner, there's no way that six cops would be so frightened that they'd resort to illegal takedown maneuvers to bring you under control.

Every day, drunk white college kids put up way more resistance than Garner did and don't even get tazed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
👆

It may seem dumb that the thing I choose to focus on is you locking your doors but I have an irrational fear of homeless white men and I lock my doors when they pass my car. I don't do the same to the black men...probably because I grew up around blacks (I've stated this before).

I don't lock my doors when women of any race are nearby, even though I know that if a woman opened my door at a red light and put a knife to my throat I'd be just as frightened and carjackable as if it were a man (well, a man of similar build, anyway). So in addition to being subconsciously racist I'm also subconsciously sexist, probably to an even greater degree.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Well, you seem to have done well for yourself. You seem to have a better education and you are better spoken/read than the majority of America, imo.

basically i flaked out in high school cause i basically didn't give a shit. unlike you i grew up broke but not starving so really being poor wasn't a big deal to me. and even though they told me in high school go to college get a career and all that at the time i was a dumb teen and i thought man i can find happiness without being rich or having a career, life is just meant to be lived and all that dumb shit.

i was basically able to pass their standardized tests and all that without any real effort but i wouldn't dedicate myself to doing homework and shit. i stopped showing up a lot for a while... there was one semester where i actually had straight f's.

it took having my back against the wall with bills and dead end jobs to convince me maybe college wasn't such a bad idea. and looking back that was the same stress my parents were dealing with when i was growing up i was just sheltered from it cause i was the kid so i didn't have any bills. we were evicted countless times, i've bounced around different states as well.. but all in all i had a pretty decent childhood cause my parents were laid back and fun.

truth be told though i'd love to go back in time and slap teenage me.

My apologies for not making the clearer: Oklahoma. Oklahoma is not very well-to-do. My early childhood was in a poorish town. On the list of top 100 poorest counties in the US, Oklahoma has 4 listed. Oklahoma is also one of the poorest states in the US (41...but that number is very skewed by Tulsa and Oklahoma City which have very rich people living there do to big oil: the income disparity in Oklahoma is skewed by Big Oil). It wasn't a pretty situation. I never went naked but I did go hungry, at times. But those were few and far-between because we got welfare assistance from a church, which was wonderful (this is part of why I became a Mormon, later).

My situation was not nearly as bad as the bottom quintile of African Americans, imo. My father single-handed took us out of poverty and moved us to "rich-white-people town." As soon as he finished school, my shit-life ended. 😐

lol... see the immature old me wants to call you guys pussies. i don't lock my doors for shit if i'm driving. it would have to be a really ****ed up neighborhood. you can try to ambush me but if i'm in the car that's probably not going to end well for you cause i wont think twice about stepping on the gas.

It's not just about personal safety, there's also the danger that while you're stopped at a light, someone can open a door and just snatch something from inside your car and run.

Really, unless you're driving on the highway you should always keep your doors locked and your windows up.

It's just I've noticed that I only remember to do this when I'm (1) in a city like Miami and (2) around black people and/or homeless people.

oh my drivers door is the only one that wouldnt be locked by default. but i drive with the windows open so it doesn't matter anyway. i never really considered anyone opening my car door and grabbing some shit. not sure what they'd grab tbh lol they wouldn't get much from me. probably you drive a much nicer car then anything i've ever had and so really you're smart to keep it locked.

but tbh... if you have to stop in certain neighborhoods, a locked door might not cut it.

-edit talking about this has made me glad i moved to nc. in this town you can get out of the car and leave it running with the keys in the ignition to go in to the store. still probably not the smartest thing to do, and i don't do it myself out of habit, but i've seen a bunch of people do it and haven't heard of anyone getting robbed yet. and that's in a racially mixed lower-middle income area with a decent amount of black people and mexicans. some times i love this small town. other times it bores the shit out of me and i can't wait to leave.

Originally posted by pump6
Another Race-Based Attack In St. Louis:

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/12/05/Another-Race-Based-Attack-In-St-Louis-Black-Thugs-Drag-Bosnian-Woman-Out-Of-Her-Car-and-Beat-Her

This time the victim is a White Bosnian woman

This after the hammer attack on that Bosnian man.

Dadude is right again.

There are dozens of programs for African Americans in the US.
All they need is to give a little effort on their part, and they can find a way to escape the ghettos.

I personally have black American friends (most of them from Brooklyn) who took advantage of the privileges from those government programs.
Now they're working with decent pay, raising a family, living in a peaceful community.

The main problem, IMO, is the mentality of the majority of black Americans.
If they abandon their thuggish ways, they'd be seen in a better light.
If the Jews and the Italians could change America's outlook on their peoples, then blacks definitely can.
Starting with trying to adapt to their society. Then maybe getting a decent education.

OT:
Yes, it's true there is still racism towards black people. But racism is not exclusive to America.
I heard it's even worse in European countries, like UK or Germany. I have different cousins living in both countries. They say foreigners (Asians and Blacks especially) are not treated well by the locals.

> implying people choose to be poor and thuggish.

Excellent lulz ITT.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
> implying people choose to be poor and thuggish.

At first, I was agreeing with you. Then I realized you were wrong on both accounts once I thought about it.

You would be correct if you said, "Lol, people don't choose to be born into poverty."

People definitely definitely choose to be thuggish. Once you start leaning so far into libtarded ideas such as, "Poor people can't help but be criminals!!!", you commit the same type of racism that the old-timey KKK had for black people. That racism being that they are too dumb to choose for themselves and they have a natural disposition towards violence, stealing, and lying. If you want to pretend this conversation is about poor people rather than black people, then you're committing classism. But we both know that we're talking specifically about black people so classism is out.

You need to amend your thinking quite drastically. People do have a choice on whether or not to be criminal thugs. Until thinking like yours disappears, we are going to continue to have racism against black people and other poor minority groups. Why would you think it is okay to expect criminal behavior from black people? Why do you not see that as racism? Maybe you do think that and I'm stupid for even responding.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Excellent lulz ITT.

I don't find it funny. I find perspectives like your sad.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Dadude is right again.

There are dozens of programs for African Americans in the US.
All they need is to give a little effort on their part, and they can find a way to escape the ghettos.

I personally have black American friends (most of them from Brooklyn) who took advantage of the privileges from those government programs.
Now they're working with decent pay, raising a family, living in a peaceful community.

The main problem, IMO, is the mentality of the majority of black Americans.
If they abandon their thuggish ways, they'd be seen in a better light.
If the Jews and the Italians could change America's outlook on their peoples, then blacks definitely can.
Starting with trying to adapt to their society. Then maybe getting a decent education.

OT:
Yes, it's true there is still racism towards black people. But racism is not exclusive to America.
I heard it's even worse in European countries, like UK or Germany. I have different cousins living in both countries. They say foreigners (Asians and Blacks especially) are not treated well by the locals.

And even more racism from you.

The majority of blacks are not thugs. The majority are victims of the thugs and criminals in their neighborhoods. =/

Originally posted by dadudemon
At first, I was agreeing with you. Then I realized you were wrong on both accounts once I thought about it.

You would be correct if you said, "Lol, people don't choose to be born into poverty."

People definitely definitely choose to be thuggish. Once you start leaning so far into libtarded ideas such as, "Poor people can't help but be criminals!!!", you commit the same type of racism that the old-timey KKK had for black people. That racism being that they are too dumb to choose for themselves and they have a natural disposition towards violence, stealing, and lying. If you want to pretend this conversation is about poor people rather than black people, then you're committing classism. But we both know that we're talking specifically about black people so classism is out.

You need to amend your thinking quite drastically. People do have a choice on whether or not to be criminal thugs. Until thinking like yours disappears, we are going to continue to have racism against black people and other poor minority groups. Why would you think it is okay to expect criminal behavior from black people? Why do you not see that as racism? Maybe you do think that and I'm stupid for even responding.

I don't find it funny. I find perspectives like your sad.

Fundamental lack of knowledge on sociology and how socio-economic status influence peoples' dispositions ITT. It's nice not being the Uncle Ruckus in a thread for once, though.