Ferguson Riots

Originally posted by Bardock42
Was the innocent girl shot by police, and is the perpetrator caught and known but escaping any consequences anyways?

No not by police, but black lives should matter regardless of who does the shooting. The cops also had the right to shoot the thug who pulled out a gun. So they protested the death of someone who the cops had the right to shoot.

So black lives matter when the cops shoot a thug who pulls a stolen gun on them, but not when some guy that guns down an innocent girl who to my knowledge has not been caught. So protest the piece of shit thug, but not the girl..that is the mentality. That is the problem with the community, not rap music. It's the mentality they can do no wrong and the cops can do no right, and they are always the victims except when it is blacks killing other blacks because they are too stupid to even aim a weapon properly.

They won't destroy shit when the gangbangers don't get caught, strange huh?

No, it's not strange, again, because the protests are regarding the ease with which police officers shoot black people as well as that they then often get away with these shooting. So they are completely unrelated.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, it's not strange, again, because the protests are regarding the ease with which police officers shoot black people as well as that they then often get away with these shooting. So they are completely unrelated.

But this was a justified shooting, so it makes no sense to protest this specific event.

If they are upset over the ease in which cops get away with this, why are they not upset with the ease that gang bangers get away with it? These people are not always caught, most of they go free because nobody will say a god damn word about it. I see this all the time in Chicago, so why the hell can't they multi-task and tackle these issues? More blacks kill blacks and the murders go unsolved compared to cops killing people without justification.

Originally posted by Surtur
But this was a justified shooting, so it makes no sense to protest this specific event.

If they are upset over the ease in which cops get away with this, why are they not upset with the ease that gang bangers get away with it? These people are not always caught, most of they go free because nobody will say a god damn word about it. I see this all the time in Chicago, so why the hell can't they multi-task and tackle these issues? More blacks kill blacks and the murders go unsolved compared to cops killing people for no reason.

Maybe you're correct. But since the protests are about the readiness and lower threshold of police to shoot black people and since it's hard to tell when police is actually justified, and when they just preemptively shoot a black person it's not that clear cut.

Yeah, well, we can multitask, some people obviously feel their time is better spent to protest the police that is charged with protecting people (including black people) when they fail to do their duty.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Maybe you're correct. But since the protests are about the readiness and lower threshold of police to shoot black people and since it's hard to tell when police is actually justified, and when they just preemptively shoot a black person it's not that clear cut.

But then it goes back to what I say about them being so quick to jump on the victim bandwagon without knowing the facts. Whenever a cop shoots a black man now it must automatically be "he was a good boy, he was innocent, he never hurt nobody, he was a gentle giant".

Them feeling the time protesting is better spent protesting cops speaks volumes. The cops cause NOWHERE NEAR the amount of violence that these gang bangers, etc. do. The cops are supposed to protect them, but they have to LIVE with these citizens. The cops aren't killing friggin kids with stray bullets.

The image of the dangerous drugged up black brute is so ubiquitous that it influences police officers in the pursuit of their duty, it makes a lot of sense to show the humanity of the people that get killed.

Originally posted by Surtur
The cops aren't killing friggin kids with stray bullets.

Originally posted by Bardock42
The image of the dangerous drugged up black brute is so ubiquitous that it influences police officers in the pursuit of their duty, it makes a lot of sense to show the humanity of the people that get killed.

But then what you just said multiples by about a thousand when it comes to the crime committed by the ordinary citizens.

Originally posted by Bardock42
http://gawker.com/video-cops-shot-12-year-old-two-seconds-after-arriving-1663814827

Fair enough, but the gang bangers still kill far far far(and about a billion more fars) people with their stray bullets then cops. A lot of these drive bys happen quick and either leave no witnesses or people are afraid to talk, and they get away with it far more often then police officers and nobody talks about it to the degree they talk about cops killing criminals.

Originally posted by Surtur
But then what you just said multiples by about a thousand when it comes to the crime committed by the ordinary citizens.

But that is influenced by distrust in police. If you can't be sure the police will help you (or worse have to be worried they'll wrongfully shoot you when you call them) that creates a climate that will support this kind of lawlessness.

Originally posted by Bardock42
But that is influenced by distrust in police. If you can't be sure the police will help you (or worse have to be worried they'll wrongfully shoot you when you call them) that creates a climate that will support this kind of lawlessness.

This is still a big cop out though. It's no excuse to focus on one thing and not focus on something that kills far more people and does far more damage to the community.

The community flat out does more damage to themselves then the cops. Of course the go to answer for that is to blame it on the cops. It's the victim mentality I spoke of.

Perhaps the cops would be more friggin trusting of them if the citizens rose up about the utter garbage their community is infested with.

Originally posted by Surtur
But then it goes back to what I say about them being so quick to jump on the victim bandwagon without knowing the facts. Whenever a cop shoots a black man now it must automatically be "he was a good boy, he was innocent, he never hurt nobody, he was a gentle giant".

Them feeling the time protesting is better spent protesting cops speaks volumes. The cops cause NOWHERE NEAR the amount of violence that these gang bangers, etc. do. The cops are supposed to protect them, but they have to LIVE with these citizens. The cops aren't killing friggin kids with stray bullets.

The cops should not be perceived as a threat themselves. Which when they are is a huge problem. It creates distrust between the officers and the people they are supposed to protect.

So while black on black crime is a problem it is a serious problem when some you can not count on the people that are supposed to be helping stop that problem as well.

Originally posted by Surtur
This is still a big cop out though. It's no excuse to focus on one thing and not focus on something that kills far more people and does far more damage to the community.

The community flat out does more damage to themselves then the cops. Of course the go to answer for that is to blame it on the cops. It's the victim mentality I spoke of.

Perhaps the cops would be more friggin trusting of them if the citizens rose up about the utter garbage their community is infested with.

I think people are entitled to focus on the issues that they are most interested in. I am sure a lot of the protesters are also worried about crime rates and similar, however there's very little chance that a protest like this would convince criminals to turn a new leaf, while it may recruit the public to their cause and put pressure on police officers to behave less Rambo-y.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah but it is supposed to be the cops job to protect the innocent from the threats.

The cops should not be perceived as a threat themselves. Which when they are is a huge problem. It creates distrust between the officers and the people they are supposed to protect.

So while black on black crime is a problem it is a serious problem when some you can not count on the people that are supposed to be helping stop that problem as well.

I'm not acknowledging the police thing isn't a problem. But are there so little black people in this country that they can't protest something that does the most friggin damage to their community? Once again though people try to shift the blame to the police.

You know why the can't count on the police? Because there is so many god damn criminals in this city so quick to pullout a friggin gun over stupid shit. Trust goes both ways.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think people are entitled to focus on the issues that they are most interested in. I am sure a lot of the protesters are also worried about crime rates and similar, however there's very little chance that a protest like this would convince criminals to turn a new leaf, while it may recruit the public to their cause and put pressure on police officers to behave less Rambo-y.

Exactly, you just illustrated the problem. The problem being they seem to be more interested in the victim mentality then the everyday problems they face more often.

Protesting cops doing shady things is 100% valid. But now they have tainted it by jumping on the bandwagon every time a cop is involved in the death of a black person regardless of circumstances. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

Originally posted by Surtur
Exactly, you just illustrated the problem. The problem being they seem to be more interested in the victim mentality then the everyday problems they face more often.

Protesting cops doing shady things is 100% valid. But now they have tainted it by jumping on the bandwagon every time a cop is involved in the death of a black person regardless of circumstances. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

I think you are misinterpreting my post. What I said is that a protest against criminals has little chance of being successful, it's not the right tool to use to fight crime. A protest against police brutality and abuses of authority on the other hand can be extremely effective.

Originally posted by Surtur
I didn't say all rap is false, just a lot of it. Most of these guys aren't really the thugs they portray themselves as. Some of them might of been that way prior to becoming successful..but others just plain never were really what they act like in videos. The ones who were like that prior to success usually tend to embellish the stuff they did.

Just take 50 Cent for example. He was shot 9 times, so it's not like he can't say he lived that kind of life, but he also has a bunch of songs talking about getting high all the time. Yet he has gone on record saying he actually doesn't do drugs. Which is something I can believe given how in shape the guy got around the time. So even the guys with a past tend to play things up or just flat out lie to sell records.

But the drug trade sounds like a more legit reason then blaming rap music.

There is also the problem of you saying people don't take tv or games as real. Thing is some people do. I was reading an article recently about Malcolm McDowell and how he got various death threats because he played a character in a movie that killed Captain Kirk. So even though it is fiction it can make people do all kinds of crazy stuff...so you can't brush that off and say music is different.

Even ignoring the crazies think of this another way: kids can indeed have trouble differentiating certain forms of entertainment from reality...and adults are the ones who should know better then to believe everything a rapper says.

Sadly this is not the case.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/03/ronald-ra-diggs-herron_n_6999348.html

An accused New York City gang member was sentenced to life in prison on Thursday for a slew of violent crimes, including three murders, after being convicted in a trial in which prosecutors used his graphic rap lyrics against him.

Ronald "Ra Diggs" Herron, 33, was sentenced to 12 terms of life in prison plus 105 years by U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis in Brooklyn, New York.

The sentencing came after a jury in June 2014 found Herron guilty of all 23 charges against him, from racketeering to drug trafficking to gang-related killings between 2001 and 2009.

The reason I found out about this guy is because I was just listening to some random rap and I actually liked him. Here we have a clear case of a rapper who was influenced by gangsta rap and actively lived the life it portrayed. A far more recent example is of course the case of Bobby Schmurda, whose hit song portrayed the life that would eventually lead to a long incarceration. Same can be said about Gucci Mane and and Max b and numerous others. This is not counting the countless number of rappers who were previously criminals, such as 50 Cent.

Then we have these guys:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mafia_Family

A crime enterprise who associated with rappers such as Jay Z, Fabulous, and Young Jeezy, amongst others. Rick Ross even made a song celebrating them. The kind of criminal activities they committed were and are depicted and glorified by said rappers and many others.

Music targeted at a specific demographic glorifying rather vilifying the very real crime and street violence occurring in impoverished neighbourhoods is without a doubt, going to inspire people of that demographic, especially those in impoverished neighbourhoods where ignorance and desperation thrive because the gangsta rap music that glorifies crime and violence traps them in culture that likes crime and violence, and DEFINITELY when you've been listening to said music and experiencing the culture since youth.

Then that leads to my original post. As shown, record companies purposely flood the market with this stuff, even getting people who never were or are no longer are criminals to keep glorifying the lifestyle, which results in the culture of street violence plaguing black America.

As stated, there is a difference between a kid playing GTA, which one can automatically tell is fake, or listening to Metallica, whose lyrics are grim storytelling, but again not literal, and perpetually listening to music that glorifies and celebrates the very real criminal activity occurring in their neighborhood. The music isn't just noise with a beat. It created a culture, one that has blacks trapped in one of violence and ignorance because crime seems cool.

Then, cops see blacks committing crimes and then hear blacks enjoying music that glorifies those exact crimes, and then a stereotype is formed. Then blacks wonder why cops treat them with such disrespect and in return get hostile, which leads to a new cycle of violence.

Why? Because a culture of glorification of crime and violence has been created and now blacks are trapped in it. How? As shown with the two videos, the media purposely suppresses positive rap and floods the market with ignorance, which of course leads to ignorance, as shown with the article.

Originally posted by Surtur
Exactly, you just illustrated the problem. The problem being they seem to be more interested in the victim mentality then the everyday problems they face more often.

Protesting cops doing shady things is 100% valid. But now they have tainted it by jumping on the bandwagon every time a cop is involved in the death of a black person regardless of circumstances. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

I completely agree with this. As stated though, it is that music and culture, that causes them to ignore and in fact create, rather than solve their problems. It's a large and complex issue, but I believe gangsta rap plays a rather prominent part in it.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm not acknowledging the police thing isn't a problem. But are there so little black people in this country that they can't protest something that does the most friggin damage to their community? Once again though people try to shift the blame to the police.

You know why the can't count on the police? Because there is so many god damn criminals in this city so quick to pullout a friggin gun over stupid shit. Trust goes both ways.

I feel like you're problem is that they aren't acknowledging the problem of Black on Black crime. I think it's a side issue and everyone knows it is a problem. It's doesn't take away from the gravity of the issue that is police brutality, especially against African Americans. In fact the cops should be the people helping stop the first problem you want addressed. All it does create mistrust where there shouldn't be mistrust.

Trust goes both ways but the problem is that people getting killed aren't the ones betraying that trust. It's not the innocent or unarmed person betraying that trust. They are in fact doing what they are supposed to be doing and not pulling weapons out. It's the job of the cop to realize who is who and exercise restraint. They have been failing at that part of their job.

I admit some cops have been failing, but people in the community have been failing as well. It's the chicken and the egg. I'm not saying a protest for the non cop issue could make any changes in the government or anything, but I'm wondering where is the outrage, where is the looting, where is all that over this?

People can protest when a community gets out of control, it doesn't have to be directed at any specific person. But it's a much bigger problem that needs attention drawn to it, which protesting can do.

Plus like I said before, this is leading to people protesting no matter what, regardless of the circumstances. That doesn't help when you have people protesting stuff like that does it? Every time a cop kills a black man now it's automatically an act of racism and the person was innocent.