Gremmy vs Kaguya Ootsutsuki

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
That's not true.

Ichibe specifically says, "Go back ANOTHER 1000 ri". This means he already went 1,000 ri, which is about 2,500 miles, in approximately one second. This is around 9 million mph, or 2,500 miles per second, which makes him faster than anything we've seen in Naruto, outside of teleporting or Hiraishin. Not to mention that he performed a feat of blasting Juha Bach across the equivalent of almost all of North America. That's a continent level punch, which is higher than even Gai's taijutsu.

Also, Ichibe isn't even the strongest in Bleach. And how would she deal with Aizen's shikai?

And Madara reacted to been hit by A and Tsunade after they were teleported at the speed of light. That Madara in his weakest form too.

North America, you're so funny.

She'll deal with Aizen useless shikai the same damn way everyone else did. By sensing the idiots energy. Or she could just perform the blast that was going to extinct all life on Earth.

Originally posted by SquallX

She'll deal with Aizen useless shikai the same damn way everyone else did. By sensing the idiots energy. Or she could just perform the blast that was going to extinct all life on Earth.

I'd like to point out that weakness only works if the victim is being attacked directly by Aizen or to be more precise, touching his shikai upon its activation like Yamamoto and Gin did.

Originally posted by SquallX
And Madara reacted to been hit by A and Tsunade after they were teleported at the speed of light. That Madara in his weakest form too.

North America, you're so funny.

She'll deal with Aizen useless shikai the same damn way everyone else did. By sensing the idiots energy. Or she could just perform the blast that was going to extinct all life on Earth.

btw nobody has ever sensed there way outta kyoka only way to avoid its power is to touch the blade or to have never seen the blade at all

Originally posted by SquallX
And Madara reacted to been hit by A and Tsunade after they were teleported at the speed of light. That Madara in his weakest form too.

North America, you're so funny.

She'll deal with Aizen useless shikai the same damn way everyone else did. By sensing the idiots energy. Or she could just perform the blast that was going to extinct all life on Earth.

Wait a second, are you now saying Tsunade and A are light speed?

What kind of drugs are you on? The only characters in Naruto that can achieve light speed, are those with Hiraishin, and that's only a teleporting technique, making it not their actual speed.

Didn't you say Kaguya was "LS+++" just the other day?

Also, watching the anime episode, Madara blitzing Sage!Naruto was pretty damn beast, and then he follows up by shitting on Tobirama and the Biju to boot. I gotta retain that Madara's easily the strongest non-jinchuuriki/non-otsutsuki in the series.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Didn't you say Kaguya was "LS+++" just the other day?

Also, watching the anime episode, Madara blitzing Sage!Naruto was pretty damn beast, and then he follows up by shitting on Tobirama and the Biju to boot. I gotta retain that Madara's easily the strongest non-jinchuuriki/non-otsutsuki in the series.

No, I said her reaction speed is, which is true. She reacted to light speed warping, as did two characters below here(Jyuubidara and Jyuubito).

Also, Madara is by no means the strongest non-jinchuuriki/ootsutsuki in the series. Hashirama was stronger than him by far, as well as Sasuke after getting the rinnegan. Not to mention that even Kakashi got to the point of being a lot stronger than Madara after getting both mangekyo from Obito. Also, are you forgetting about Gai in 8th gate? lol, there are a lot of characters above Madara outside of jinchuuriki and Ootsutsuki...

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Hashirama was stronger than him by far,

What? Not at all, dude; even EMS Madara wasn't that far behind Hashirama.

Madara at his peak had all of Hashirama's powers, Perfect Susano'o, superior stats across the board, and the Rinnegan.

The dude casually stomped Sasuke, Tobirama, all 9 tailed beasts, and Hashirama within 2 chapters.

Sasuke after getting the rinnegan.

I actually thought that would be an interesting thread idea; Sasuke from the LAST going against Madara from the current anime. Both have one Rinnegan, Perfect Susano'o, etc.

Kakashi got to the point of being a lot stronger than Madara after getting both mangekyo from Obito.

He was also running on sizable portion of Otsutsuki chakra, though. Even then, I wouldn't count him as a lot stronger than Madara, if at all.

Also, are you forgetting about Gai in 8th gate?

Admittedly forgot about him.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Wait a second, are you now saying Tsunade and A are light speed?

What kind of drugs are you on? The only characters in Naruto that can achieve light speed, are those with Hiraishin, and that's only a teleporting technique, making it not their actual speed.

Never once did i say those 2 were lightspeed.

A and Tsunade were transported into the battlefield by a jutsu that traveled at the speed of light. They both attacked Madara, and he was fast enough to block both of there attacks at the same time.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Wait a second, are you now saying Tsunade and A are light speed?

What kind of drugs are you on? The only characters in Naruto that can achieve light speed, are those with Hiraishin, and that's only a teleporting technique, making it not their actual speed.

teleportation is not light speed

Originally posted by yungz22
teleportation is not light speed

Maybe you should go back and read the chapter before you start to argue against it first.

The pot was said to allow the user to travel anywhere in the elemental nations at the speed of light.

It wasn't used often because of the strain it put on the users body. Few people were able to use it. The only three that were able to use were A predecessor, A himself and Tsunade.

Originally posted by SquallX
Maybe you should go back and read the chapter before you start to argue against it first.

The pot was said to allow the user to travel anywhere in the elemental nations at the speed of light.

It wasn't used often because of the strain it put on the users body. Few people were able to use it. The only three that were able to use were A predecessor, A himself and Tsunade.

once again teleportation isnt light speed

the pot didnt teleport it transmitted them at the speed of light

Originally posted by yungz22
once again teleportation isnt light speed

the pot didnt teleport it transmitted them at the speed of light

An other can use a move anyway he wants in his own medium. It's his world.

No need to go back and read it again then.

Kaguya hands down beats bleach......

Originally posted by SquallX
Never once did i say those 2 were lightspeed.

A and Tsunade were transported into the battlefield by a jutsu that traveled at the speed of light. They both attacked Madara, and he was fast enough to block both of there attacks at the same time.

So why did you bring up the pot thing anyway? Tsunade and A were sent to the battlefield at light speed, and THEN fought Madara. That doesn't make his reaction speed anywhere close to lightspeed. If anything, it proves he isn't, since he couldn't demonstrably react to any of the Kage appearing there.

Originally posted by yungz22
teleportation is not light speed

Since you apparently forgot the last time I embarrassed you by showing the actual definition of teleportation, 'TELEPORTATION: The act or process of moving an object or person by psychokinesis.".

Nothing about speed, genius. 👆

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What? Not at all, dude; even EMS Madara wasn't that far behind Hashirama.

Madara at his peak had all of Hashirama's powers, Perfect Susano'o, superior stats across the board, and the Rinnegan.

The dude casually stomped Sasuke, Tobirama, all 9 tailed beasts, and Hashirama within 2 chapters.

I actually thought that would be an interesting thread idea; Sasuke from the LAST going against Madara from the current anime. Both have one Rinnegan, Perfect Susano'o, etc.

He was also running on sizable portion of Otsutsuki chakra, though. Even then, I wouldn't count him as a lot stronger than Madara, if at all.

Admittedly forgot about him.

PFFT, you're high, lol. EMS Madara needed to cover the FULL(not half, like Naruto used for the entire series) Kyuubi in his perfect Susano'o, and EVEN STILL couldn't manage to wound Hashirama. The ONLY reason Madara survived their fight was because he set Izanagi to go off in one of his eyes, to revive him after the battle, WHICH HE DID DIE IN.

Madara at his peak still wasn't as strong as Hashirama, according to Hashirama himself. That's why he made such a big deal out of Obito absorbing the ten tails, saying he was "ACTUALLY", stronger than him.

Also, Sasuke with his one Rinnegan was demonstrably dozens of times stronger than Madara with both of his. Or did you forget that he and Naruto managed to fight on par with Kaguya, and even defeat her? Sasuke with his rinnegan and PS was able to casually cut dozens of meteors into ribbons SUMMONED by Jyuubidara. One of the strongest attacks of double Rinnegan Madara was to summon TWO meteors. Sasuke has fought and defeated people who made Madara look like trash, even with both rinnegan.

What? You think Madara could take on a Perfect Susano'o equivalent to his, but with flight, that also had Kamui, Kamui shurikens, Kamui Raikiri, INTANGIBILITY(that's the big one), technique copying, and one-touch win, with physical Kamui? Kakashi would kill any other character in Naruto that wasn't a teleporter, or massive class speedster, with a GLANCE, literally. Including Madara.

Also, yeah, I could tell you did, lol. It's all good though, it happens.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
So why did you bring up the pot thing anyway? Tsunade and A were sent to the battlefield at light speed, and THEN fought Madara. That doesn't make his reaction speed anywhere close to lightspeed. If anything, it proves he isn't, since he couldn't demonstrably react to any of the Kage appearing there.

Since you apparently forgot the last time I embarrassed you by showing the actual definition of teleportation, 'TELEPORTATION: The act or process of moving an object or person by psychokinesis.".

Nothing about speed, genius. 👆

PFFT, you're high, lol. EMS Madara needed to cover the FULL(not half, like Naruto used for the entire series) Kyuubi in his perfect Susano'o, and EVEN STILL couldn't manage to wound Hashirama. The ONLY reason Madara survived their fight was because he set Izanagi to go off in one of his eyes, to revive him after the battle, WHICH HE DID DIE IN.

Madara at his peak still wasn't as strong as Hashirama, according to Hashirama himself. That's why he made such a big deal out of Obito absorbing the ten tails, saying he was "ACTUALLY", stronger than him.

Also, Sasuke with his one Rinnegan was demonstrably dozens of times stronger than Madara with both of his. Or did you forget that he and Naruto managed to fight on par with Kaguya, and even defeat her? Sasuke with his rinnegan and PS was able to casually cut dozens of meteors into ribbons SUMMONED by Jyuubidara. One of the strongest attacks of double Rinnegan Madara was to summon TWO meteors. Sasuke has fought and defeated people who made Madara look like trash, even with both rinnegan.

What? You think Madara could take on a Perfect Susano'o equivalent to his, but with flight, that also had Kamui, Kamui shurikens, Kamui Raikiri, INTANGIBILITY(that's the big one), technique copying, and one-touch win, with physical Kamui? Kakashi would kill any other character in Naruto that wasn't a teleporter, or massive class speedster, with a GLANCE, literally. Including Madara.

Also, yeah, I could tell you did, lol. It's all good though, it happens.

i just said it isnt lightspeed why reiterate what i said

Originally posted by yungz22
i just said it isnt lightspeed why reiterate what i said

The point was that speed has nothing to do with the definition of teleportation. You can teleport at light speed, at 22 mph, instantaneously, or even back in time. It doesn't matter, teleportation is moving through meta-physical means, which means Hiraishin, which moves the user at light speed, IS teleportation.

EMS Madara needed to cover the FULL(not half, like Naruto used for the entire series)

I wouldn't make such a big deal out of this detail, here. After all, when all is said and done, Naruto&Kurama greatly outperforms solo Full!Kurama on a consistent basis.

Besides, the Kyuubi was only present for part of the fight; Madara did pretty fine on his own as well.

Madara at his peak still wasn't as strong as Hashirama, according to Hashirama himself. That's why he made such a big deal out of Obito absorbing the ten tails, saying he was stronger than him.

1.) That wasn't Madara at his peak, not at all; he became much more powerful after being revived.

2.) We already saw that Madara and Hashirama (EDO) were evenly matched when they fought during the Juubito battle.

Or did you forget that he and Naruto managed to fight on par with Kaguya, and even defeat her?

Yeah, when running on half of Hagoromo's chakra. Might as well give Madara the Juubi, lol.

You think Madara could take on a Perfect Susano'o equivalent to his

Yes.

but with flight,

Madara's actually has been shown with wings as well, though he never used them. Admittedly though, that was in the anime.

that also had Kamui,

So? Madara has Limbo, dude; the technique that casually took out all 9 tailed beasts simultaneously. Not to mention all of the other Rinnegan techs, which include all of Pain's powers on a vastly higher scale.

INTANGIBILITY(that's the big one),

And Madara has vastly superior taijutsu skills, and instantaneous regeneration that Kakashi lacks.

technique copying,

Madara has the Sharingan too, and Sage Mode to boot.

and one-touch win, with physical Kamui?

Never, ever seen him do this. Regardless, Madara has the Human Path, which is a similar touch-to-kill type technique.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I wouldn't make such a big deal out of this detail, here. After all, when all is said and done, Naruto&Kurama greatly outperforms solo Full!Kurama on a consistent basis.

Besides, the Kyuubi was only present for part of the fight; Madara did pretty fine on his own as well.

1.) That wasn't Madara at his peak, not at all; he became much more powerful after being revived.

2.) We already saw that Madara and Hashirama (EDO) were evenly matched when they fought during the Juubito battle.

Yeah, when running on half of Hagoromo's chakra. Might as well give Madara the Juubi, lol.

Yes.

Madara's actually has been shown with wings as well, though he never used them. Admittedly though, that was in the anime.

So? Madara has Limbo, dude; the technique that casually took out all 9 tailed beasts simultaneously. Not to mention all of the other Rinnegan techs, which include all of Pain's powers on a vastly higher scale.

And Madara has vastly superior taijutsu skills, and instantaneous regeneration that Kakashi lacks.

Madara has the Sharingan too, and Sage Mode to boot.

Never, ever seen him do this. Regardless, Madara has the Human Path, which is a similar touch-to-kill type technique.

No he doesn't. We don't even have any feats from Full Kurama, other than, obviously, having twice the chakra that Naruto's Kurama does, as well as being twice as strong.

Madara summoned the Kyuubi to fight against Hashirama's wooden golem. Realizing his Golem wouldn't be enough to fight against the Susano'o Kyuubi, he summoned a ten thousand hand wood idol, who had finger nails bigger than the Kyuubi. Hashirama was toying with him the entire time, given that he KO'd the Kyuubi by tapping his forehead. 👆

1. No he didn't. Nobody became stronger as a living being than an Edo tensei. Madara was simply able to absorb the Jyuubi while alive, which by his own word, was the only reason he risked being revived and possibly getting killed, in the first place. 👆

2. And again, Madara was using Perfect Susano'o, while Hashirama only used his wood golem. Had Hashirama used his wood idol, and Madara didn't have the Kyuubi, Hashirama would have FLATTENED Madara.

Sasuke and Naruto retained Hagaromo's chakra, dude. It was explained in The Last, and was the entire reason that 1. Naruto could still use all the Biju's chakra, and 2. Sasuke kept his rinnegan in the first place.

Anime only doesn't count, bro. 👆

Madara doesn't have all of Pain's techs. He's only demonstrated weak Jutsu absorption, and planetary devastation. He doesn't have almighty push, hax summons, universal pull, technopathy, Rinne tensei, etc. And what good is limbo against someone who's intangible and can copy other rinnegan abilities?

KAKASHI DOESN'T NEED INSTANT REGEN. He has ten minutes of intangibility, with a 2.5 minute cooldown. And his taijutsu is ridiculously superior to Madara's. Kakashi has fought on par with Itachi in terms of taijutsu, someone who Orochimaru dubbed the strongest of the Uchiha DOZENS of times.

Kakashi has sage tech's too, due to Obito's chakra he gained. And no one in all of Naruto has displayed the tech copying that Kakashi has. Even with just his two Mangekyo, he is capable of copying RINNEGAN ONLY ABILITIES, like Perfect Susano'o. There's no reason he shouldn't be able to copy all of Madara's too, including Limbo, Planetary devastation, Infinite Tsukiyomi, etc.

Madara DOESN'T have the Human path. He's never used it, so we have to assume he can't. Also, Obito was capable of one-touch winning with only one Mangekyo. Because he could warp anyone he touched into the Kamui dimension, where he controlled everything, similarly to Tsukiyomi. Kakashi has all of his abilities, but TWICE as strong/fast. He could warp Madara to Kamui dimension the second he touched him, which would be easy to do considering he has Kamui teleportation at 2X light speed, intangibility, and a Kamui warping twice as fast as Obito's, which almost caught Minato mid-warp.

1. No he didn't. Nobody became stronger as a living being than an Edo tensei.

Did you... Even read the manga? I mean for one thing, only after being revived was he able to use Limbo, his most powerful technique-and he gained Hashirama's Sage Mode to boot.

Also:

"Madara has somehow regained his past power!"

-Hashirama (Chapter 657)

Sasuke and Naruto retained Hagaromo's chakra, dude. It was explained in The Last,

Show me.

1. Naruto could still use all the Biju's chakra,

No, he couldn't. Not once in the LAST did he ever use any of their chakra natures, dude.

Madara doesn't have all of Pain's techs.

Pain's techs are Madara's techs, dude.

He's only demonstrated weak Jutsu absorption,

Lol, weak? He can absorb any energy-based attacks.

He doesn't have almighty push,

So you're arguing that he can't use Shinra Tensei despite being able to use Chibaku Tensei? You do know that the latter is just a more advanced technique in the same area of gravitational manipulation powers.

Rinne tensei,

Madara can use this too. That's how he forced Obito to revive him, remember?

And what good is limbo against someone who's intangible and can copy other rinnegan abilities?

LOL. Kakashi can't copy kekkei genkai, silly.

Kakashi's taijutsu is ridiculously superior to Madara's. Kakashi has fought on par with Itachi in terms of taijutsu, someone who Orochimaru dubbed the strongest of the Uchiha DOZENS of times.

Dude, you have to be trolling.

RINNEGAN ONLY ABILITIES, like Perfect Susano'o.

...What? PS is not a Rinnegan-only ability.

Obito was capable of one-touch winning with only one Mangekyo. Because he could warp anyone he touched into the Kamui dimension, where he controlled everything, similarly to Tsukiyomi.

He doesn't control shit in the Kamui dimension, he took a half dozen Rasengans to the face there, dude.

Kakashi has all of his abilities, but TWICE as strong/fast.

Lol, Madara blitzed Naruto and Tobirama, and you think Kakashi is twice as fast as him despite having no relevant speed feats?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Did you... Even read the manga? I mean for one thing, only after being revived was he able to use Limbo, his most powerful technique-and he gained Hashirama's Sage Mode to boot.

Also:

"Madara has somehow regained his past power!"

[B]-Hashirama (Chapter 657)

Show me.

No, he couldn't. Not once in the LAST did he ever use any of their chakra natures, dude.

Pain's techs are Madara's techs, dude.

Lol, weak? He can absorb any energy-based attacks.

So you're arguing that he can't use Shinra Tensei despite being able to use Chibaku Tensei? You do know that the latter is just a more advanced technique in the same area of gravitational manipulation powers.

Madara can use this too. That's how he forced Obito to revive him, remember?

LOL. Kakashi can't copy kekkei genkai, silly.

Dude, you have to be trolling.

...What? PS is not a Rinnegan-only ability.

He doesn't control shit in the Kamui dimension, he took a half dozen Rasengans to the face there, dude.

Lol, Madara blitzed Naruto and Tobirama, and you think Kakashi is twice as fast as him despite having no relevant speed feats? [/B]

Okay, I guess you are right about the sage mode thing. I forgot you had to be alive to use Nature energy.

That's the reason Naruto was able to use the Special Kyuubi cloak in the manga, that only those with Asura's chakra could use.

Pain's techniques are not Madara's techniques. Why do you think Obito's jinchuriki paths couldn't use the Pain abilities? Or Madara didn't use them in the first place? If Madara could have absorbed half of the attacks that hit him while alive, he would have done so. Or if he could have one-shotted Naruto or Sasuke with a grab. Or if he could have used Almighty push/Universal pull.

Yes, weak. The strongest energy based attack he has demonstrated the ability to absorb, was Sage Naruto's base Rasen-shuriken. That attack is ridiculously weak, compared to later energy attacks, like Biju bombs, Amaterasu, Biju-sen-shuriken, planetary rasengan, planetary Rasen-shuriken, etc. lol, do you think he could absorb Toneri's moon slicing ray, or Kaguya's planet busting biju bomb? lulz.

When was it said that someone who can use Planetary devastation can use Almighty push? Are you saying Sasuke/Naruto can also use Almighty push? Sasuke used planetary devastation on all the biju at once, and Naruto and him together used it to seal Kaguya, but NEITHER of them can use Almighty push OR Universal pull. 👆

Um, what? Madara planned on Nagato using Rinne Rebirth to revive him. How does that mean Madara could use Rinne Rebirth? By that logic, Kakashi, and damn near everyone in the leaf Village could also use Rinne Rebirth, considering they could be brought back with it too. Nice logic, pal.

LOL. Kakashi copied Sasuke's PS with wings. If a Rinnegan-only Susano'o isn't a kekkei genkai, then I don't know what it. Clearly he got that ability with his dual Mangekyo. And in response to your next point, yes, PS IS a Rinnegan only ability. Show ONE example of someone with anything less than rinnegan, other than Kakashi, using PS. Sasuke couldn't use it until he got Rinnegan, Madara had to activate Rinnegan to use it, and the only other one to use it was Kakashi, who managed to copy it with ONLY two Mangekyo sharingan.

Nope. Kakashi, in a weaker form than Madara, has fought on par with Taijutsu power houses that Madara couldn't have dreamed of fighting hand-to-hand. Madara's fighting style is just drowning the enemy in an ocean of jutsu, and energy attacks. Or simply cutting everything down with PS, which won't work, since Kakashi has it as well.

What? He literally only took one rasengan to the face there, and that was only after being caught off-guard by someone much faster and stronger than him. And I didn't mean that he controls everything, I meant that he can make any genjutsu part of reality, which is why I compared it to Tsukiyomi. That's why he could conjure genjutsu versions of young Obito, and Rin, with just a thought. My point is that in the Kamui dimension, the user of Kamui has a massive advantage, at least of being able to conjure real-life genjutsu illusions.

I said Kakashi has all of Obito's abilities, but twice as strong/fast. It was established that Kakashi/Obito's Kamui's were twice as strong/fast with both eyes in their possession, which is why Kakashi was able to double Obito's warp speed, to out-speed even Jyuubidara's Goudama, his strongest/fastest attacks.

Kakashi was blitzing Obito in the Kamui dimension, someone who was on par with Madara in terms of chakra capacity, and approximately speed. Kakashi managed to fight on par with several biju AT ONCE, while Madara was getting rofl-stomped by them, until he got his second rinnegan and was able to summon the Gedo statue to absorb them. Madara was still physically NOTHING to the Biju, without his second rinnegan to use PS with. Kakashi managed to actually fight on par with them, with just clones.