Originally posted by psycho gundamI did read the comics and Surfer not fighting back after trashing the entire group set against him is reading the comics. Quit being a fanboy, sport.
I mean, you could just read the comics.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurderOdin respected him and was unable to put him down. Canon. Praise be Thanos' name.
Odin did B!tch slap Thanos...2nd panel...
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Maybe having his number is too strong a phrase. Has the edge is a better interpretation
True but it's all down to CIS really.
Thor always choosing to face Hulk head on.
Really he could be like Surfer, just keep his distance and keep blasting away at Hulk with a Thousand Hurricanes, God Blasts, and repeatedly throwing Mjolnir at him from a distance. Plus there's nothing ever stopping Thor from teleporting Hulk away somewhere (BFR).
So in terms of power set's I honestly put both Thor and Surfer above Hulk. But when fighting each other your Rock, Paper, Scissors analogy seems to work, simply because of CIS. Thor prefers to fight Brutes like Hulk head to head in a punch up, whilst Surfer would want to keep Thor or Hulk at a distant (usually) which works to Thor's advantage as it forces him to fight smarter using his more exotic abilities, whilst Hulk really has no answer to Surfer's usual preferred combat style.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
True but it's all down to CIS really.Thor always choosing to face Hulk head on.
Really he could be like Surfer, just keep his distance and keep blasting away at Hulk with a Thousand Hurricanes, God Blasts, and repeatedly throwing Mjolnir at him from a distance. Plus there's nothing ever stopping Thor from teleporting Hulk away somewhere (BFR).
So in terms of power set's I honestly put both Thor and Surfer above Hulk. But when fighting each other your Rock, Paper, Scissors analogy seems to work, simply because of CIS. Thor prefers to fight Brutes like Hulk head to head in a punch up, whilst Surfer would want to keep Thor or Hulk at a distant (usually) which works to Thor's advantage as it forces him to fight smarter using his more exotic abilities, whilst Hulk really has no answer to Surfer's usual preferred combat style.
This post is like me saying Surfer holds back against Thor since the only thing Surfer does is blast normal blast when fighting Thor when he can do so much more.
Originally posted by carver9
This post is like me saying Surfer holds back against Thor since the only thing Surfer does is blast normal blast when fighting Thor when he can do so much more.
No. Surfer doesn't hold back. The reason Norrin loses is because he has no answer for mjolnir. He can't blast him because it will just be absorbed and redirected. He can depower him like he would hulk, and once those options are exhausted he tries to go h2h where it's a definitive loss. He'd have to go out of character and create black holes , etc in order to put him down and that's not plausible since the hammer is so duex es that it would just power thru. It's the same issue that every blaster type has with thor/brb.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
No. Surfer doesn't hold back. The reason Norrin loses is because he has no answer for mjolnir. He can't blast him because it will just be absorbed and redirected. He can depower him like he would hulk, and once those options are exhausted he tries to go h2h where it's a definitive loss. He'd have to go out of character and create black holes , etc in order to put him down and that's not plausible since the hammer is so duex es that it would just power thru. It's the same issue that every blaster type has with thor/brb.
Surfer doesnt use a fraction of his power against Thor. If you think blasting is all Surfer can do then you are crazy. A CIS off Surfer would merk any Herald 10/10.
Originally posted by carver9
Surfer doesnt use a fraction of his power against Thor. If you think blasting is all Surfer can do then you are crazy. A CIS off Surfer would merk any Herald 10/10.
But has Surfer ever displayed those abilities in actual combat?
If not it becomes like the speed thing. "Superman will punch Hulk a million times in 1 second", even thought he's never displayed that even against opponents slower than Hulk.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERno Surfer rarely does anything except blast and punch , but changes on KMC when he fights certain character.
But has Surfer ever displayed those abilities in actual combat?If not it becomes like the speed thing. "Superman will punch Hulk a million times in 1 second", even thought he's never displayed that even against opponents slower than Hulk.
You can even ask for proof of this all out Surfer using his powers , you won't get any proof though.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But has Surfer ever displayed those abilities in actual combat?If not it becomes like the speed thing. "Superman will punch Hulk a million times in 1 second", even thought he's never displayed that even against opponents slower than Hulk.
Originally posted by Insane Titan
no Surfer rarely does anything except blast and punch , but changes on KMC when he fights certain character.You can even ask for proof of this all out Surfer using his powers , you won't get any proof though.
This^ . Forum Surfer doesn't exist in comics. However people love placing feats on him that simply are figments of their imagination. It'd be awesome if he could create singularities in his opponents eyes, phase their hearts out of their chests, or rearrange their molecules to make their powers null among other things. But he doesn't. He blasts occasionally uses his board to the back of the head, and engages in h2h. And fighting like this Thor will always have his number unless he managed to bfr mjolnir. Which isnt happening.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But has Surfer ever displayed those abilities in actual combat?If not it becomes like the speed thing. "Superman will punch Hulk a million times in 1 second", even thought he's never displayed that even against opponents slower than Hulk.
First, Superman has never fought like that in his entire career. So, that is kind of different than what I am saying. Also, if we are going by fights, Thor tends to swing his hammer against 95% of the people he fights, not only Hulk. It's just the way it is. Hell, he did it against Surfer in their last fight. Thor is as much of a brute as Hulk is.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
This^ . Forum Surfer doesn't exist in comics. However people love placing feats on him that simply are figments of their imagination. It'd be awesome if he could create singularities in his opponents eyes, phase their hearts out of their chests, or rearrange their molecules to make their powers null among other things. But he doesn't. He blasts occasionally uses his board to the back of the head, and engages in h2h. And fighting like this Thor will always have his number unless he managed to bfr mjolnir. Which isnt happening.
And Thor fights different in comics? Don't apply a rule to Surfer when you're not doing the same for Thor. The way Thor fights Hulk, he does that against almost EVERY opponent he face. It's in character for him just like it's in character for Surfer to blast etc... when you go around and change this, saying if Thor fought like this, this should happen, then you need to be broad with it. Don't just apply this to Thor, give it to Surfer or others as well.
Originally posted by carver9
First, Superman has never fought like that in his entire career. So, that is kind of different than what I am saying.
Nor has Surfer ever fought the way your claiming. So the speed analogy was correct.
Originally posted by carver9
Also, if we are going by fights, Thor tends to swing his hammer against 95% of the people he fights, not only Hulk. It's just the way it is. Hell, he did it against Surfer in their last fight. Thor is as much of a brute as Hulk is.
That's true. But he has also fought without resorting to being a brute. Like when he brought the full power of the storms and his anti-force blast while keeping his distance against both The Destroyer and against Thanos. But Ironically only defeated Destroyer when he got up close, went all Brute on him and Teleported him away.
It's ok to mix up the Brute Punching thing with the more Exotic keeping your distance powers. In fact the combination of the 2 is probably the most effective way Thor can fight against most opponents. Also it's smart of Thor to take it toe to toe with Surfer because that's where he has the advantage.
But Mjolnir and the fact that Thor can fly FTL aid him to fight Surfer in ways Hulk never could. So Surfer can't just keep his distance and blast away at Thor.
He can do that against Hulk though. And technically Thor could as well but he never does. And probably never will. Marvel will want to keep the whole Epic Brute showdowns between Hulk and Thor going.
Originally posted by carver9
And Thor fights different in comics? Don't apply a rule to Surfer when you're not doing the same for Thor. The way Thor fights Hulk, he does that against almost EVERY opponent he face. It's in character for him just like it's in character for Surfer to blast etc... when you go around and change this, saying if Thor fought like this, this should happen, then you need to be broad with it. Don't just apply this to Thor, give it to Surfer or others as well.
TF are you talking about? I originally said. Thor has Surfers number. Hulk has Thors number. Surfer has Hulks number. Nowhere did I say what you're suggesting. I honestly don't even know what your argument is. You originally said show you where Hulk showed inferiority to Surfer. I pointed out three instances where he was owned. You tried to refute that but was proven wrong. Then you stated that cisless Surfer would mop the floor with Thor. CISless Surfer doesn't exist. Reference a comic where he does such feats. You're basing your opinion of what you think he could do as opposed to what he's actually done. Hulk has proven time and time again he's stronger than Thor. That's not even a debate. More powerful? No as Thor has esoteric abilities that are simply beyond him. But he NEVER or RARELY uses these so it's not even worth mentioning except by fanboys who don't want their idol to lose. Stop debating like a child.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
TF are you talking about? I originally said. Thor has Surfers number. Hulk has Thors number. Surfer has Hulks number. Nowhere did I say what you're suggesting. I honestly don't even know what your argument is. You originally said show you where Hulk showed inferiority to Surfer. I pointed out three instances where he was owned. You tried to refute that but was proven wrong. Then you stated that cisless Surfer would mop the floor with Thor. CISless Surfer doesn't exist. Reference a comic where he does such feats. You're basing your opinion of what you think he could do as opposed to what he's actually done. Hulk has proven time and time again he's stronger than Thor. That's not even a debate. More powerful? No as Thor has esoteric abilities that are simply beyond him. But he NEVER or RARELY uses these so it's not even worth mentioning except by fanboys who don't want their idol to lose. Stop debating like a child.
I'm not debating like a child, but, I guess somewhere between this, I misunderstood you. My bad.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nor has Surfer ever fought the way your claiming. So the speed analogy was correct.That's true. But he has also fought without resorting to being a brute. Like when he brought the full power of the storms and his anti-force blast while keeping his distance against both The Destroyer and against Thanos. But Ironically only defeated Destroyer when he got up close, went all Brute on him and Teleported him away.
It's ok to mix up the Brute Punching thing with the more Exotic keeping your distance powers. In fact the combination of the 2 is probably the most effective way Thor can fight against most opponents. Also it's smart of Thor to take it toe to toe with Surfer because that's where he has the advantage.
But Mjolnir and the fact that Thor can fly FTL aid him to fight Surfer in ways Hulk never could. So Surfer can't just keep his distance and blast away at Thor.
He can do that against Hulk though. And technically Thor could as well but he never does. And probably never will. Marvel will want to keep the whole Epic Brute showdowns between Hulk and Thor going.
Understand able but the only thing I'm asking is 'be consistent with it'.
The way Thor fights the Hulk is how he normally fights. We agree, he should mix it up a bit when fighting someone but, he doesn't...it's in character for him to swing that hammer. His fight against Tutinax probably would have played out a Lil better if he used his versatility but oh well.
Originally posted by carver9
Understand able but the only thing I'm asking is 'be consistent with it'.The way Thor fights the Hulk is how he normally fights. We agree, he should mix it up a bit when fighting someone but, he doesn't...it's in character for him to swing that hammer. His fight against Tutinax probably would have played out a Lil better if he used his versatility but oh well.
I think the issue is Hulks stock is so high that marvel can't let him lose to Thor who is a relative newbie popularity wise.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I think the issue is Hulks stock is so high that marvel can't let him lose to Thor who is a relative newbie popularity wise.
But Thor popularity is just as high as Hulk is though. I think they are overdoing Hulk stock a bit (Hickman saying Hulk is the most powerful being on the Avengers team when that is a complete lie when we have people like Captain Universe and Starbrand on that same team), but I don't think Hulk is more popular than Thor.
I just think writers see Hulk different than what we do. Hell, Pak said that Hulk can beat a merged Superman and Doomsday (Superdoom). He's being wanked everywhere (and I'm loving it).
^ It's a great brute rivalry between the 2 most powerful bricks on Marvel Earth. I don't think Marvel will ever totally sway away from that rivalry by making it an outright stomp one way or the other.
Originally posted by carver9
Understand able but the only thing I'm asking is 'be consistent with it'.The way Thor fights the Hulk is how he normally fights. We agree, he should mix it up a bit when fighting someone but, he doesn't...it's in character for him to swing that hammer. His fight against Tutinax probably would have played out a Lil better if he used his versatility but oh well.
True he does like to slug it out. But let's not pretend he's never kept his distant and blasted away at opponents. Or that he's never teleported opponents away either. He has done those things in the past, and can do them again.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ It's a great brute rivalry between the 2 most powerful bricks on Marvel Earth. I don't think Marvel will ever totally sway away from that rivalry by making it an outright stomp one way or the other.True he does like to slug it out. But let's not pretend he's never kept his distant and blasted away at opponents. Or that he's never teleported opponents away either. He has done those things in the past, and can do them again.
👆 agreed.