Gladiator vs Heralds

Originally posted by leonidas
do you know how full of utter sh!t that is? 😂

the task is a simple one--prove that said 'amp' was at all involved in that gladiator book. really easy. i'll wait.

i find it hilarious though that this 'amp' ONLY amped his strength and not his durability. lol seriously?? in the old days you used to say glads was beat down because of the radiation from the power plant. i'm happy you gave that idea up finally, but now you've moved on to this. sigh..... i called you on THAT bullsh!t then, like i'm calling you on this one now.

[b]prove he was amped in that book. prove he was in any way stronger--at all--than he had been in books prior. lol at that notion. he's shattered asteroids 2x the earth's size but he must be amped by another universe because he smashed in glads' face? geniuses.... did he eventually gain power from that other universe? obviously. but the connection wasn't established until AFTER that annual--it played no part at all in that battle. the writer did NOT write that book with any 'amp' in mind and i defy you or anyone else to prove it to the contrary. just more and more drivel carver. stick with mindset and stay away from other sites and stop listening to people who don't know anything. you end up looking as bad as they do. [/B]

This post doesn't make a bit of sense. It doesnt have to be referenced in every comic that Hulk is amped when we know that he is. He was amped, deal with it.

Originally posted by leonidas

out of curiosity--was there a definitive showing that demonstrated the...closure of his connection to this other universe?

Yes. Heroes Reborn: The Return #4, and the follow-up issue Incredible Hulk #460.

The other universe that Hulk was connected to was the Heroes Reborn universe. Because Banner existed in one and Hulk in the other, they became a conduit for energy flowing between the two. Once Banner was reunited with Hulk in the 616-verse, the Hulk's connection to the Reborn universe was closed.

Originally posted by leonidas

i find it hilarious though that this 'amp' ONLY amped his strength and not his durability. lol seriously??

Not sure why you find that hilarious - it was referenced in the comics numerous times, beginning with Incredible Hulk #449 in which Hulk expresses confusion as he feels "stronger than ever" but is badly wounded by a normal missile. At the end of that issue he collapses, an early symptom of the universal nexus energies damaging his health.

It was also made very explicit in IH #454 (both from dialogue and from Hulk collapsing into a coma after being attacked by a T-Rex), Deadpool #4 (in which Hulk is impaled on a broken street sign, much to the amazement of both Hulk and Deadpool), and Heroes Reborn: The Return #2.

Whether the writer was treating either the growing strength or the declining durability as a factor in the Gladiator fight is less certain. There's certainly no explicit reference to either element within the fight or annual, but it was published in the middle of this period.

The Gladiator fight is from Incredible Hulk Annual 1997, which was published in May 1997. IH #449 (in which Hulk first notes he is stronger than ever but his new vulnerability becomes apparent) was published in January of 1997. The nature of the Hulk's link to the new universe, and how it was simultaneously making him stronger whilst slowly killing him, was revealed in #450, published in February 1997.

At the start of the 1997 Annual, the Hulk is roaming the country side with Janis. He makes reference to a warning he gave the US Army in the Annual, a reference which must be referring to the "new rules" Hulk lays down at the end of IH #448. That means it must be set after the end of IH #448 (he leaves with Janis on the last page of that issue) and before IH #451 (Hulk takes over an island in Florida in that issue and doesn't leave it until the end of #453, at which point he separates from Janis).

So it is possible that the Annual was set before #449, which was before the Hulk noticed his increased strength and lower durability.

The fact that the Hulk's altered status isn't referenced once during the Annual though suggests to me the writer wasn't thinking of it as a factor when he wrote the Gladiator fight.

Cheers.

Tales to Atonish 92-93
Silver Surfer 1
Incredible Hulk 250

all other fights were draws

and the ONE time that Hulk beat SS. was Planet Hulk when both were depowered and Hulk had help

Originally posted by Estacado
For the Thanos part...

Did people miss that Thanos said "I should deal with him personally."?

As for his return he said "According to scans and my database everything is once again as it was"

Maybe the reason he didnt fight him is because he didnt want to change the flow of events?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Since the Pro-Surfer front can't counter the argument that Thanos wanted to beat the living shit out of Surfer with a smile (Surfer was alone), yet avoided the superior Gladiator who would have been alone too, which means Glads > Surfer in Thanos mind, we can go over to Thanos vs Glads.

I don't want to spoil the fun here but my guess would be. Thanos wants to change the timeline or something like this, a confrontation with Gladiator could unbalance it, while the others were taken into account. Or something along those lines. I don't really think he was afraid of Glads but still think he deems him more dangerous than Surfer who was always Thanos b!tch.

I desagree. Surfer was not in the group when Thanos said that about Gladiator.

When Surfer come, Thanos was able to fight 1v1 against him (he never said he could not beat Gladiator in 1v1). Also, BFR Surfer is kinda useless...he would come back to the battlefield in no time.

Originally posted by LGU
Yes. Heroes Reborn: The Return #4, and the follow-up issue Incredible Hulk #460.

The other universe that Hulk was connected to was the Heroes Reborn universe. Because Banner existed in one and Hulk in the other, they became a conduit for energy flowing between the two. Once Banner was reunited with Hulk in the 616-verse, the Hulk's connection to the Reborn universe was closed.

Not sure why you find that hilarious - it was referenced in the comics numerous times, beginning with Incredible Hulk #449 in which Hulk expresses confusion as he feels "stronger than ever" but is badly wounded by a normal missile. At the end of that issue he collapses, an early symptom of the universal nexus energies damaging his health.

It was also made very explicit in IH #454 (both from dialogue and from Hulk collapsing into a coma after being attacked by a T-Rex), Deadpool #4 (in which Hulk is impaled on a broken street sign, much to the amazement of both Hulk and Deadpool), and Heroes Reborn: The Return #2.

Whether the writer was treating either the growing strength or the declining durability as a factor in the Gladiator fight is less certain. There's certainly no explicit reference to either element within the fight or annual, but it was published in the middle of this period.

The Gladiator fight is from Incredible Hulk Annual 1997, which was published in May 1997. IH #449 (in which Hulk first notes he is stronger than ever but his new vulnerability becomes apparent) was published in January of 1997. The nature of the Hulk's link to the new universe, and how it was simultaneously making him stronger whilst slowly killing him, was revealed in #450, published in February 1997.

At the start of the 1997 Annual, the Hulk is roaming the country side with Janis. He makes reference to a warning he gave the US Army in the Annual, a reference which must be referring to the "new rules" Hulk lays down at the end of IH #448. That means it must be set after the end of IH #448 (he leaves with Janis on the last page of that issue) and before IH #451 (Hulk takes over an island in Florida in that issue and doesn't leave it until the end of #453, at which point he separates from Janis).

So it is possible that the Annual was set before #449, which was before the Hulk noticed his increased strength and lower durability.

The fact that the Hulk's altered status isn't referenced once during the Annual though suggests to me the writer wasn't thinking of it as a factor when he wrote the Gladiator fight.

Cheers.

Which means there is a huge possibility that he was amped since it was referenced months before that he was more powerful.

Originally posted by LGU
Yes. Heroes Reborn: The Return #4, and the follow-up issue Incredible Hulk #460.

The other universe that Hulk was connected to was the Heroes Reborn universe. Because Banner existed in one and Hulk in the other, they became a conduit for energy flowing between the two. Once Banner was reunited with Hulk in the 616-verse, the Hulk's connection to the Reborn universe was closed.

Not sure why you find that hilarious - it was referenced in the comics numerous times, beginning with Incredible Hulk #449 in which Hulk expresses confusion as he feels "stronger than ever" but is badly wounded by a normal missile. At the end of that issue he collapses, an early symptom of the universal nexus energies damaging his health.

It was also made very explicit in IH #454 (both from dialogue and from Hulk collapsing into a coma after being attacked by a T-Rex), Deadpool #4 (in which Hulk is impaled on a broken street sign, much to the amazement of both Hulk and Deadpool), and Heroes Reborn: The Return #2.

Whether the writer was treating either the growing strength or the declining durability as a factor in the Gladiator fight is less certain. There's certainly no explicit reference to either element within the fight or annual, but it was published in the middle of this period.

The Gladiator fight is from Incredible Hulk Annual 1997, which was published in May 1997. IH #449 (in which Hulk first notes he is stronger than ever but his new vulnerability becomes apparent) was published in January of 1997. The nature of the Hulk's link to the new universe, and how it was simultaneously making him stronger whilst slowly killing him, was revealed in #450, published in February 1997.

At the start of the 1997 Annual, the Hulk is roaming the country side with Janis. He makes reference to a warning he gave the US Army in the Annual, a reference which must be referring to the "new rules" Hulk lays down at the end of IH #448. That means it must be set after the end of IH #448 (he leaves with Janis on the last page of that issue) and before IH #451 (Hulk takes over an island in Florida in that issue and doesn't leave it until the end of #453, at which point he separates from Janis).

So it is possible that the Annual was set before #449, which was before the Hulk noticed his increased strength and lower durability.

The fact that the Hulk's altered status isn't referenced once during the Annual though suggests to me the writer wasn't thinking of it as a factor when he wrote the Gladiator fight.

Cheers.

Not taking sides, but this is exactly what happened to a T. I would have said something earlier, but it happened so long ago that I forgot the finer details. Your retelling of events have jogged my memory. Carver is correct here. The Hulk was amped to an unknown degree. This may mean that the Hulk would be unable to defeat Gladiator under normal circumstances. I say may not, because he still had healing issues, and his durability seemed to be below its normal state.

Originally posted by carver9
Which means there is a huge possibility that he was amped since it was referenced months before that he was more powerful.

In my opinion, it isn't just possible, he was amplified in terms of strength, while at the same time being weaker than ever in terms of durability, and healing. The Hulk was basically like a snowman slowly melting away. I think that you and Leo are both correct to a degree.

Originally posted by carver9
Which means there is a huge possibility that he was amped since it was referenced months before that he was more powerful.

He had noted that he felt stronger than ever prior to the publication of the Gladiator fight, absolutely. The serious side-effects of the universal nexus hadn't really begun to kick in by that point though - for example, he didn't begin to glow uncontrollably with the extra energy until Incredible Hulk #453 (which was published in the same month as the 1997 Annual, but had to take place after the Gladiator fight because immediately after #453 Hulk left Janis and disappeared to the Arctic).

It's also probably worth pointing out that the extent of the strength amp is a very open question. Hulk noted he felt "stronger than ever" once, Strange commented that he would grow in strength as time passed in #450, and the narration commented on it much later on, but it was hardly a World War Hulk-type set-up in which it was noted every single issue and by just about every single character that Hulk was stronger than he'd ever been.

His strength increase also wasn't a steady thing - it seemed to come in peaks and troughs. He was on the verge of losing to Mr Hyde in IH #458 before Mercy restored some of his strength. He was exhausted after beating the Abomination in #459 and noted it would take time for his strength to return etc etc.

It might also be worth noting that one of the editors suggested that the Hulk no longer possessed the ability to grow stronger with anger due to his separation from Banner:

That was in the letters page of IH #452, published the month before the Gladiator fight.

So yes, from a strictly in-continuity point-of-view, it is possible that the Hulk who fought Gladiator was stronger (but notably less durable) than usual. However it is also possible that he no longer had the ability to grow stronger with rage. Does a higher base strength that had only just begun growing at the time of the Gladiator fight really make up for the loss of Hulk's key power?

Like I said though, none of these things are mentioned during the Gladiator fight itself. Whether the writer was considering any of them as factors in the fight, or just telling the story he wanted to, we can only guess at.

Cheers.

I think if canonically the characther has a downgrade or upgrade, dont matter if the writter was thinking in that or not.

Originally posted by LGU
He had noted that he felt stronger than ever prior to the publication of the Gladiator fight, absolutely. The serious side-effects of the universal nexus hadn't really begun to kick in by that point though - for example, he didn't begin to glow uncontrollably with the extra energy until Incredible Hulk #453 (which was published in the same month as the 1997 Annual, but had to take place after the Gladiator fight because immediately after #453 Hulk left Janis and disappeared to the Arctic).

It's also probably worth pointing out that the extent of the strength amp is a very open question. Hulk noted he felt "stronger than ever" once, Strange commented that he would grow in strength as time passed in #450, and the narration commented on it much later on, but it was hardly a World War Hulk-type set-up in which it was noted every single issue and by just about every single character that Hulk was stronger than he'd ever been.

His strength increase also wasn't a steady thing - it seemed to come in peaks and troughs. He was on the verge of losing to Mr Hyde in IH #458 before Mercy restored some of his strength. He was exhausted after beating the Abomination in #459 and noted it would take time for his strength to return etc etc.

It might also be worth noting that one of the editors suggested that the Hulk no longer possessed the ability to grow stronger with anger due to his separation from Banner:

That was in the letters page of IH #452, published the month before the Gladiator fight.

So yes, from a strictly in-continuity point-of-view, it is possible that the Hulk who fought Gladiator was stronger (but notably less durable) than usual. However it is also possible that he no longer had the ability to grow stronger with rage. Does a higher base strength that had only just begun growing at the time of the Gladiator fight really make up for the loss of Hulk's key power?

Like I said though, none of these things are mentioned during the Gladiator fight itself. Whether the writer was considering any of them as factors in the fight, or just telling the story he wanted to, we can only guess at.

Cheers.

Makes sense. I guess it's debatable.

Originally posted by carver9
Makes sense. I guess it's debatable.

Did i answer your question

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Did i answer your question

Nope.

Originally posted by LGU
He had noted that he felt stronger than ever prior to the publication of the Gladiator fight, absolutely. The serious side-effects of the universal nexus hadn't really begun to kick in by that point though - for example, he didn't begin to glow uncontrollably with the extra energy until Incredible Hulk #453 (which was published in the same month as the 1997 Annual, but had to take place after the Gladiator fight because immediately after #453 Hulk left Janis and disappeared to the Arctic).

It's also probably worth pointing out that the extent of the strength amp is a very open question. Hulk noted he felt "stronger than ever" once, Strange commented that he would grow in strength as time passed in #450, and the narration commented on it much later on, but it was hardly a World War Hulk-type set-up in which it was noted every single issue and by just about every single character that Hulk was stronger than he'd ever been.

His strength increase also wasn't a steady thing - it seemed to come in peaks and troughs. He was on the verge of losing to Mr Hyde in IH #458 before Mercy restored some of his strength. He was exhausted after beating the Abomination in #459 and noted it would take time for his strength to return etc etc.

It might also be worth noting that one of the editors suggested that the Hulk no longer possessed the ability to grow stronger with anger due to his separation from Banner:

That was in the letters page of IH #452, published the month before the Gladiator fight.

So yes, from a strictly in-continuity point-of-view, it is possible that the Hulk who fought Gladiator was stronger (but notably less durable) than usual. However it is also possible that he no longer had the ability to grow stronger with rage. Does a higher base strength that had only just begun growing at the time of the Gladiator fight really make up for the loss of Hulk's key power?

Like I said though, none of these things are mentioned during the Gladiator fight itself. Whether the writer was considering any of them as factors in the fight, or just telling the story he wanted to, we can only guess at.

Cheers.

so, like i said--the amp didn't have any effect at that point. in fact, since it was so early and he wasn't even sick, his strength was likely BELOW normal as he wasn't amping from rage AND his durability was lessened. so, a weaker and less durable hulk than usual beat glads down. glad that was cleared up. 👆

anyway, fair enuff. i'll go ahead and trust this, if only because it keeps me from having to go through and research it all myself. it bears repeating of course--there is still absolutely zero proof suggesting that the hulk that beat glads to a pulp was in any way stronger than any other hulk before him, nor do i think for one second the author took the circumstances into consideration. and that hulk CERTAINLY wasn't stronger than wwh who, (as the arc stated several times over and was in fact the whole POINT of the arc) was the strongest hulk ever to that point.

so, yeah. hulk wins.

When did hulk beat gladiator to a pulp?

😕
Did they have a second fight or is all the BS overlooked in their first fight?

Originally posted by carver9
Nope.

Tales to Astonish 92 93
Silver surfer 1
IH 250

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Tales to Astonish 92 93
Silver surfer 1
IH 250

In tales of Astonishing if I remember correctly, he absorbed Hulk's gamma energy.

Same in Surfer 1.

Don't consider either ownage.

250 didn't even end. Then you brought up Planet Hulk saying Surfer was weakened but failed to mention the same thing about Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
In tales of Astonishing if I remember correctly, he absorbed Hulk's gamma energy.

Same in Surfer 1.

Don't consider either ownage.

250 didn't even end. Then you brought up Planet Hulk saying Surfer was weakened but failed to mention the same thing about Hulk.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Surfer quit fighting back. That is very important context since prior to he was beating on Hulk and the Warbound.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk's mindset was completely different in both encounters. This is what I am trying to tell you. He was out for blood with Gladiator, the words he said against Surfer was as if he was talking to a friend during the end.

The Hulk was the aggressor during the fight. Surfer was treating the Hulk like a friend, not the other way around. At the end Surfer told the Hulk that dying wasn't so bad. Hulk got pissed and jumped away.

Originally posted by carver9
In tales of Astonishing if I remember correctly, he absorbed Hulk's gamma energy.

Same in Surfer 1.

Don't consider either ownage.

250 didn't even end. Then you brought up Planet Hulk saying Surfer was weakened but failed to mention the same thing about Hulk.

In Tales to Astonish 92 Hulk admitted that the Surfer's power cosmic was stronger than he was. In Tales to Astonish 93 the Surfer knocked out the Hulk with a single cosmic blast and treated him like an annoyance.

In Hulk #250 Surfer drained the energy out of the Hulk(twice) and took his power. Banner was left falling to Earth and would have died had the Surfer not saved him.

In Planet Hulk both were weakened but Surfer was tooling Hulk and his Warbound until they broke the obedience disk.

Ownage. 😂