Zoom vs Runner...

Originally posted by Laminator_X
The only things we've seen harm the Runner are Thanos with the Time Gem aging him (Elders can age if they don't counteract it)

No I think it was PIS I think they're supposed to be immune to aging.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Hell yeah he could. Thanos has never beaten Surfer that easily...

Plus that whole aging incident was PIS...Runner is thirteen billion years old, what would one million years matter to him? 🤨

Sry I think it was simply that the amount of time Thanos made him age shouldn't have made a difference.

Maybe so. Some of the Elders seem, well, elderly - while others look youthful. I figured that they use their power to counteract aging and stay at an age they like to be. The aging makes about as much sense as the Soul Gem's de-volving power doe, really.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
Maybe so. Some of the Elders seem, well, elderly - while others look youthful. I figured that they use their power to counteract aging and stay at an age they like to be. The aging makes about as much sense as the Soul Gem's de-volving power doe, really.

Could be like the theory behind gamma radiation and cosmic radiation mutation. Personality gets involved in how powers manifest.

This just got super nerdy.

I just realized something going over this thread...the Time Gem, the one that Runner possessed, is completely incapable of increasing someone's actual, physical speed. It ONLY allows the influence of time. Therefore, the argument about the showing vs. Thanos can only be about whether or not he was teleporting via time-jumping and not about whether he was actually running faster, as directly increasing someone's physical movement speed is outside of the Time Gem's capabilities.

Based on the illustration and the dialogue, I think Runner was moving completely under his own power during that exchange.

Throwing that out there.

What is speed?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What is speed?

No no no, none of that semantic tomfoolery. That's why I specifically said "physical movement speed". My point is that you are either arguing that he's teleporting (via time-jumping) in that encounter or you're relenting that he's not using the Time Gem. Only this.

You want to ball-up time-travel into your concept of "speed", fine...but in relation to the encounter with Thanos, he is EITHER teleporting or not using the gem. What happens and what is said on-panel leads me to believe that he is not using the gem in that encounter.

No, because its not teleporting.

Its akin to Zoom, actually, who appears to be moving fast, because speed is distance divided by time, after all.

Shortening the time taken to move somewhere IS increasing your speed, as distance stays constant.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
Maybe so. Some of the Elders seem, well, elderly - while others look youthful. I figured that they use their power to counteract aging and stay at an age they like to be. The aging makes about as much sense as the Soul Gem's de-volving power doe, really.

Oh and I just remembered it could be something like The Eternals. Some Eternals have different ages and that's due to their personality or and choice. There is one Eternal called Sprite who has the body of a pre-adolescent child but I think it has been retconned to him having that form against his choice.

In fact, that's a good way of looking at it.

Zoom is essentially the Time Gem.

The Runner had Space, actually, not that he knew how to use it. Thanos had Time, and used it on the Runner while they were talking.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, because its not teleporting.

Its akin to Zoom, actually, who appears to be moving fast, because speed is distance divided by time, after all.

Shortening the time taken to move somewhere IS increasing your speed, as distance stays constant.

Teleporting via time-jumping. Straight teleportation would be the Space Gem. Hence the "arriving at a destination before knowing what it was" and Thanos making a point to define it as "MENTAL teleportation". In other words, Runner WAS coming up with a destination, but arrived there at a time prior to him doing so due to the subconscious nature of Runner's control (or lack thereof). It's comic-book logic, but it's what's in play.

And again, that's why I specifically said "physical movement speed" i.e. running fast. The Power Gem would be responsible for an increase in physical movement speed.

Like I said, you can argue your point on what "speed" means here all you like, I'm not addressing that. I am specifically addressing the Thanos encounter. Either he was teleporting via time-jumping, or he wasn't using the gem. That is the summation of my point, which is not the one that you are addressing. I'm not arguing what "speed" is, I'm arguing what happened in the encounter with Thanos.

In fact, that's a good way of looking at it. Zoom is essentially the Time Gem.

I wouldn't argue against that. I only have cursory knowledge of Zoom, but I understand he operates on time manipulation rather than physical speed. However, I think the Time Gem would grant powers beyond Zoom's to a knowledgeable possessor. Zoom travels in time but the gem directly controls time.

Originally posted by Laminator_X
The Runner had Space, actually, not that he knew how to use it. Thanos had Time, and used it on the Runner while they were talking.

Doh, you're absolutely right. What I said about the Runner using the Time Gem was completely incorrect.

What I said about the effect it has on the Thanos encounter still stands, though. Either he was teleporting OR he wasn't using the gem. Simple.

I don't think he was using the Space Gem during their encounter, apart perhaps from the initial bushwhack. There's no way to tell definatively of course, but he didn't do anything to Thanos he didn't do just as well to the Silver Surfer before he gained the gem.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What is speed?

Originally posted by Laminator_X
I don't think he was using the Space Gem during their encounter, apart perhaps from the initial bushwhack. There's no way to tell definatively of course, but he didn't do anything to Thanos he didn't do just as well to the Silver Surfer before he gained the gem.

I agree. I don't see anything in the panels presented that would lead me to think he's using the gem.

Originally posted by Tezuseo
Runner isn't even the fastest in Marvel. Makkari beat him already. Zoom stomps

I'd call that a Spider-Man vs Firelord incident. That story is completely inconsistant with all his other appearances, has inconsistencies within the issue itself, and has the Roadrunner handing out medals.

Runner also showed interstellar speeds, walking through walls, and casually strolling around on the surface of a star in his first story back in New Defenders.

Zoom's time warping pseudo speed makes him seem faster in some respects, but how do you figure he's going to hurt the Runner?

Originally posted by Tezuseo
Runner isn't even the fastest in Marvel. Makkari beat him already. Zoom stomps

I dont think anything that happened in the quasar, runner race story by Gruenwald is even canon. Besides all the cartoonish character nods like road runner and a rabbit, a turtle, etc, and the obvious homage to barry allen; in that arc if you reach light speed then you are stuck in a "speed mode" (dimension?). In that "mode" makkari can only interact with other speedsters.
ill post what i got. For some reason I cant find the scan where runner tells makarri that he too can go to that "mode" but he chooses not to in order for him not to be stuck in it.

Pretty stupid. Dont think its canon , because if it is then there wouldn't be anyone in the marvel universe going light speed or past it without being stuck in that speed mode. That race and whatever feats came out it shouldn't be taken seriously.

^that's more or less how waid handled Flash's entry into lightspeed.

Originally posted by Inhuman
I dont think anything that happened in the quasar, runner race story by Gruenwald is even canon. Besides all the cartoonish character nods like road runner and a rabbit, a turtle, etc, and the obvious homage to barry allen; in that arc if you reach light speed then you are stuck in a "speed mode" (dimension?). In that "mode" makkari can only interact with other speedsters.
ill post what i got. For some reason I cant find the scan where runner tells makarri that he too can go to that "mode" but he chooses not to in order for him not to be stuck in it.

Pretty stupid. Dont think its canon , because if it is then there wouldn't be anyone in the marvel universe going light speed or past it without being stuck in that speed mode. That race and whatever feats came out it shouldn't be taken seriously.

Just the fact that he can converse with him implies he was in that mode as well.