Sentry vs Ghost Rider

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Uuuuuuuuug!!!!!

I was really excited for GR to be on Thunderbolts, but GR has been heavily treated like garbage in those issues. The fact GR stated Venom had too many sins when he tried to PS him contradicts the very nature of the PS as stated in all the other GR comics. Amount of sins matter not. Now they say Punisher regrets nothing, yet demonic beings or angels who feel no regret in any act they do for god or the various devils cannot tank the PS. Madcap of even Deadpool cannot tank the PS, but Punisher can?

It's official, the Thunderbolts writer really showed he has NO Clue how to handle GR, and proves the writer never read any amount of GR comics.

(Walks away ranting)

Its not really stupid imo

Frank himself hasn't killed innocent people mostly evil folks....its all a matter of perception. Back during WWH some could say the hulk attacking earth out for revenge was evil but the ghost rider didn't think so.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Its not really stupid imo

Frank himself hasn't killed innocent people mostly evil folks....its all a matter of perception. Back during WWH some could say the hulk attacking earth out for revenge was evil but the ghost rider didn't think so.

Yes it's stupid as that is not how the Penance Stare works at all. The Penance does not rely on guilt at all. It's been stated to force you to feel all the pain and suffering you committed. Period. Nothing to do with how you feel about your crimes.

The why didn't the Rider use the Penance Stare back during WWH then

besides what i mentioned in the previous post.

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Actually I own both issues. Looking through them right now and nowhere does GR even tried to PS punisher in them. Both have a very short one sided fight before falling through the roof top which led them to the real villain. Then they are partners through the rest of the arc.

So punisher has never shown to tank a PS prior to Thinderbolts.

Even if i'm wrong, which i doubt, it doesnt invalidate the T-Bolts feat.
It happened, and a lot of GR fans, at least one on this site refuse to acknowledge it because they dont like it.
Well, i didnt like Superman beating Thor, but i'm not going to disregard or lowball it by blaming the writers. Just saying.

Back on topic, without the PS i dont see a clear winner here.

Originally posted by Kazenji
The why didn't the Rider use the Penance Stare back during WWH then

besides what i mentioned in the previous post.

Because the writers then didn't know how it worked.

Because the comic was called WWH, and was meant to showcase how awesome the Hulk was.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because the comic was called WWH, and was meant to showcase how awesome the Hulk was.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Because of inconsistencies..

Because the writers then didn't know how it worked.

Nope

The ghost rider didn't think WWH was doing anything wrong.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Nope

The ghost rider didn't think WWH was doing anything wrong.

Right and wrong doesn't factor in, it's about suffering.

Nor does it have anything to do with the current storyline.

In his lifetime, Hulk has caused people to suffer, ergo the penance stare would harm him.

Originally posted by Kazenji
The why didn't the Rider use the Penance Stare back during WWH then

besides what i mentioned in the previous post.

As others said above, the real reason the Penance Stare did not work is because GR never used it on Hulk. Never did GR tried to state in his eyes face to face and drawn using his PS.

He left Hulk alone because Hulk was not Zarathos target, only Blazes. It states this in the comic at the begining!

Originally posted by riv6672
So GR staring Frank down with the black panel to signify the PS not working was my imagination?
Could be, but i'm not the only one to cite that incident, prior to the more recent example taking the lead.

Even if i'm wrong, which i doubt, it doesnt invalidate the T-Bolts feat.
It happened, and a lot of GR fans, at least one on this site refuse to acknowledge it because they dont like it.
Well, i didnt like Superman beating Thor, but i'm not going to disregard or lowball it by blaming the writers. Just saying.

Back on topic, without the PS i dont see a clear winner here.

Nowhere in the fight does GR get face to face with Punisher nor ever drawn he was using a PS in any way. Just because tons of ignorant people cite the source does not change the fact it was never stated or shown to happen.

Originally posted by CadenceV2

He left Hulk alone because Hulk was not Zarathos target, only Blazes. It states this in the comic at the begining!

And as stated in the final book to do with WWH from Dr Strange

"The Ghost Rider avenges only the innocent"

Originally posted by CadenceV2
Nowhere in the fight does GR get face to face with Punisher nor ever drawn he was using a PS in any way. Just because tons of ignorant people cite the source does not change the fact it was never stated or shown to happen.

Well, dont really care that you think i'm ignorant for misremembering something (IF i am) thats been corroborated for years on various boards.
I myself find people who refuse to acknowledge incidents that HAVE been shown to happen ignorant. 🙂

Originally posted by Kazenji
And as stated in the final book to do with WWH from Dr Strange

"The Ghost Rider avenges only the innocent"

Which the Illuminati were, as it was never them who set the bomb off. Miek did. The Illuminati never killed Caiera, their baby or the planet. Miek amped the bomb as well, IIRC.

Hell, Professor X wasn't even there to vote, and Hulk still rampaged through Westchester.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which the Illuminati were, as it was never them who set the bomb off. Miek did. The Illuminati never killed Caiera, their baby or the planet. Miek amped the bomb as well, IIRC.

Well yeah....it was early on when this WWH Ghost Rider tie-in happened.

As for the fight, stalemate, imo. Really close fight.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by CadenceV2

Each Spirit of Vengeance is a Angle of the Bliblical god who is stated
to created the Marvel World (confirmed in Howard the Duck)
as well created Heaven and Mankind (stated in Ghost Rider comics).

But, in terms of books in general, (various separate Marvel titles) the Celestials seeded the planets with life. (yearS before Pak)

In fact, primarily the Divine hierarchy is only really relevant in Ghost-Rider books.
It's basically like inconsequential concerning the cosmos.

I'd put Yahweh at Sky-Father level, ... if that.

Originally posted by CadenceV2

Yes, Yaweh is the closest thing to biblical god in Marvel comics

Again, Sky-Father at best.

Originally posted by riv6672
Well, dont really care that you think i'm ignorant for misremembering something (IF i am) thats been corroborated for years on various boards.
I myself find people who refuse to acknowledge incidents that HAVE been shown to happen ignorant. 🙂

I understand where your coming from, and when I get home I will post the whe fight so you can see for yourself 🙂

I have no problem admitting it failed on Eddie Venom to a degree, and it flat out failed for no reason at all on Punisher and Flash Venom in Thunderbolts (which in itself is obvious as WIS on the character), but it did not fail on Deadpool or Punisher (first encounter) as many seem to say.

So in short my philosophy is scans or I never happen, in which case I will prove my point on it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yahweh, Lucifer, any angel, and all of heaven, ... is nothing to the Marvel cosmic hierarchy.
Yahweh also has nothing to do with creating 616-Earth or humanity. (single fallacious claim in a "H the D" book isn't suffice to make it a confirmation)
It's no different than Thor books (because they're Thor books) sometimes alluding to Odin as humanity's creator.

But, in terms of books in general, (various separate Marvel titles) the Celestials seeded the planets with life. (yearS before Pak)

In fact, primarily the Divine hierarchy is only really relevant in Ghost-Rider books.
It's basically like inconsequential concerning the cosmos.

I'd put Yahweh at Sky-Father level, ... if that.

True, but the biblical god is not much weight in Marvel.

Again, Sky-Father at best.

I agree Yahweh is sky father at best. However the Recent Ghost Rider took on the entire Avenegers, and did not lose. This included Man Thing (Hell Lord level) Doctor Strange, Wanda (same chick who help beat Phoenix) and Thor himself (he is near Skyfather alone!) proving Ghost Rider Spirits, and by extension Yaweh is Odin level at the least IMO.