Revan and ROTS Anakin vs ROTS Sidious and Dooku

Started by DarthAnt663 pages
DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

I don't mean *exactly* the the wall of light, but a similar attack. Like how Kyle Katarn did against Jerec. NewGuy01 agrees.

Kotor3 Senior Member

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No.....Well yes. That and the fact that everyone else said Revan was more powerful than Malak as well. Seriously. It's not that hard to put two and two together. Malak was a more skilled duelist, but he couldn't compete with Revan Force-wise.

I do not see how Malak wouldn't be able to compete force-wise with a Revan whose memories were not fully restored also while being amp by the SF.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What are your views on rating Revan's relative incarnations?

You place Darth Revan above KOTOR Revan, yet I thought you had KOTOR Revan equal to Novel Revan. Did I miss something?


Grand Master Revan is his most power incarnation, a more advanced incarnation then Revan on the Foundry or against the Sith Emperor. I have very high expectations for him.
Darth Revan would be close to that of Revan when he worked alongside Scourge, but obviously not an equal. The older Revan is clearly superior to the Darth in some aspects.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't mean *exactly* the the wall of light, but a similar attack. Like how Kyle Katarn did against Jerec. NewGuy01 agrees.

Oh yeah? And he's demonstrated the ability to use something similar to it, has he? That is very interesting.

Kotor3 Senior Member

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats a pretty big indicator of it.

How so?

I wouldn't say that Anakin was more knowledgeable in the force than Dooku or more powerful at the time of ROTS. I would state that he had the potential to surpass Dooku at anytime due to his potential in the force .

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh yeah? And he's demonstrated the ability to use something similar to it, has he? That is very interesting.

Nor did Kyle, if you read the book (you didn't.) He just did it without any knowledge on the attack or anything.

Kotor3 Senior Member

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
As someone who places Darth Revan above KotOR!Revan, I find it unlikely Malak ever surpassed his former master until he was amplified by the Star Forge, if even then.

To be clear I am only referring to Malak as being superior while amplified by the SF. That is the only statement I have made.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

I can respect that statement, as there is a nice deal of evidence that supports that. There is also nice collection of evidence that supports otherwise. 👆

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Kotor3
How so?

I wouldn't say that Anakin was more knowledgeable in the force than Dooku or more powerful at the time of ROTS. I would state that he had the potential to surpass Dooku at anytime due to his potential in the force .

When you beat someone 3 or more times in row, despite not being at your full ability.... that's a big indication that you're superior. Anakin only beat Dooku once and at the time hell yeah he was superior. He cut his hands off by choosing to, obviously he was better.

I don't understand how you can think Malak was better than Revan when he lost again and again and again. That's kind of stupid, no offense.

FreshestSlice Eternal Commander

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Forgive me if I'm not recalling the lines correctly, but doesn't Malak pretty much admit his inferiority to Revan after that fight?

He admits that the Light isn't weaker than the Dark and that he could never be the true ruler of the galaxy, or something like that.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nor did Kyle, if you read the book (you didn't.) He just did it without any knowledge on the attack or anything.

Ah, ok. So you don't actually have to provide any evidence for this theory for it to be totally possible. Seems legit. 👆

Ok, so I guess I have to significantly lower my estimation of Kotor Revan. Le sign.

Kotor3 Senior Member

Originally posted by Nephthys
Then how did he win?
Over and over and over again?

You ask these questions as if only inferior force users lose battles. Cleary that is not the case in the Star Wars Universe. How did he win? Through superior skill and most of all because that is the way they wrote the story.

Malak never gave any indication on the SF that he felt that Revan had surpassed him while amplified even though he acknowledge that Revan had a stronger connection to the force.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Nephthys
When you beat someone 3 or more times in row, despite not being at your full ability.... that's a big indication that you're superior. Anakin only beat Dooku once and at the time hell yeah he was superior. He cut his hands off by choosing to, obviously he was better.

I don't understand how you can think Malak was better than Revan when he lost again and again and again. That's kind of stupid, no offense.


In all reality, with the boost Darth Malak should be receiving, he should be like a ****ing god, an easily the most powerful being in the galaxy:

"The Star Forge was a Force-imbued, self-sustaining shipyard. Rakatan. It was destroyed centuries ago, but the Revanites have recovered some of the wreckage. Its technology makes the soldiers nearly immortal. Seizes their minds as well, placing them under the Revanites' full control."
--Lana Beniko (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ah, ok. So you don't actually have to provide any evidence for this theory for it to be totally possible. Seems legit. 👆

Ok, so I guess I have to significantly lower my estimation of Kotor Revan. Le sign.


The evidence is in the Prima Guide.

Lol wut? Beating Malak in his amped state is insane.

FreshestSlice Eternal Commander

Originally posted by Kotor3
I do not see how Malak wouldn't be able to compete force-wise with a Revan whose memories were not fully restored also while being amp by the SF.

Revan regained a shit ton of his Force knowledge in the weeks-months following his defeat at the hands of Malak on the Leviathan. By the end he's mastered the Light Side, or is at least implied to and given the station of master.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Kotor3
You ask these questions as if only inferior force users lose battles. Cleary that is not the case in the Star Wars Universe. How did he win? Through superior skill and most of all because that is the way they wrote the story.

Malak never gave any indication on the SF that he felt that Revan had surpassed him while amplified even though he acknowledge that Revan had a stronger connection to the force.

But your own argument is that Revan was only half-trained and lacked knowledge. Since he'd only had a few months of Jedi experience at that point, whereas Malak had decades. So how was he more skilled?

Malak doesn't need to indicate anything. The game gives us all the indication we need when he loses. And then loses again. And then loses again. And possibly more.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In all reality, with the boost Darth Malak should be receiving, he should be like a ****ing god, an easily the most powerful being in the galaxy:

[b]"The Star Forge was a Force-imbued, self-sustaining shipyard. Rakatan. It was destroyed centuries ago, but the Revanites have recovered some of the wreckage. Its technology makes the soldiers nearly immortal. Seizes their minds as well, placing them under the Revanites' full control."
--Lana Beniko (Star Wars: The Old Republic) [/B]

Well firstly Vitiate, Soa, World Razer, Dread Masters, (possibly) Nihilus, Sel-Makor and the Anchorites >>>>>> Malak no matter what amp he gets.

And secondly that quote does actually imply much of anything. Theres a difference between immortal and invincible.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The evidence is in the Prima Guide.

Lol wut? Beating Malak in his amped state is [b]insane. [/B]

Isn't that just game mechanics?

Nah. Dooku could beat him comfortably.

Kotor3 Senior Member

Originally posted by Nephthys
When you beat someone 3 or more times in row, despite not being at your full ability.... that's a big indication that you're superior. Anakin only beat Dooku once and at the time hell yeah he was superior. He cut his hands off by choosing to, obviously he was better.

I don't understand how you can think Malak was better than Revan when he lost again and again and again. That's kind of stupid, no offense.


None taken. I know you don't think highly of Malak due to him losing to Revan multiple times. Revan has always been a superior combatant. This is shown in the fact that Revan only lost in single combat to a fully empowered Vitiate.

However that doesn’t mean that Malak was inferior in power while amp by the SF which is the topic of discussion here. Not skill, strategy, ability, but power. Power is just one factor in battle. It is obvious that Malak superiority in power was not vastly over Revan while amplified on the SF. But still superior.

DarthAnt66 DarthAnt66

Originally posted by Nephthys

Well firstly Vitiate, Soa, World Razer, Dread Masters, (possibly) Nihilus, Sel-Makor and the Anchorites >>>>>> Malak no matter what amp he gets.

And secondly that quote does actually imply much of anything. Theres a difference between immortal and invincible.


I was referring to KotOR characters. though I find it unlikely the Dread Masters were.

You don't find 'immortal' impressive? Though, I'm not going to really debate it with you until the new update is actually released.

Kotor3 Senior Member

Originally posted by Nephthys
But your own argument is that Revan was only half-trained and lacked knowledge. Since he'd only had a few months of Jedi experience at that point, whereas Malak had decades. So how was he more skilled?
Malak doesn't need to indicate anything. The game gives us all the indication we need when he loses. And then loses again. And then loses again. And possibly more.

My point is not that Revan was half-trained but that he did not have the full knowledge of the force as he did as Darth Revan due to his loss of memories. So he would not have been at the same level of skill or potential as a force user.

However he did regain some of his memories before fighting Malak. So he obviously would have regain some of if not all of his knowledge of the force which would have increase his skill and potential greatly.