War Hulk & Death Sentry vs. WWH & Voidtry

Originally posted by carver9
Don't know why you keep bringing the Genis fight up though. It really doesn't help your argument.

1. Hulk is either far more powerful than Genis since he was able to achieve something Genis couldn't achieve and that was revert Sentry back to Bob or...

2. Sentry didn't exert close to the amount of power he used against WWH since again, he wasn't fatigued before, during, or after his fight against Genis.

What you are doing is choosing his high showings as him being all powerful and trying to use it as evidence in his fight against Hulk. Let me ask, how was his mentality when he fought Terrax? Was he all powerful or is that another scene we can use that proves he wasn't at peak game against Hulk even though he tells us that he will have to exert more power than ever against Hulk...we have him reverting back to his human form from exerting said powers (something that has never happened).

There is nothing pointing to Sentry holding back. There is nothing showing he was mentally retarded during his fight against Hulk. We have the opposite. He is going all out. Unleashing ALL of his power to stop Hulk and failing to do so at the end while Hulk still had enough power to go super Saiyan.

Like you've said, this doesn't make Sentry weak since again, he fought against one of the most powerful Hulk's ever.

Sentry statements...

It's time to play god.
You're the only one I can hit like THIS.
Does it always feel this good to let go?
Exerts himself to the point of turning into Bob.

Clear to me. Should be to you as well.

Also, huh? He couldn't stop himself because he was mentally messed up? How about he couldn't stop himself because it felt too good not holding back?

"Stark, Richards, what happens next is on your head". He's saying this while pulling back for this punch.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh011.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh013.jpg

Means something bad is about to happen and it's going to hang over their heads. He knew something was going to happen because Sentry is punching him through buildings. When he started fighting back, he knew something good wasn't going to come out of it. Either the death of him or Sentry.

Hulk didn't revert Sentry to Bob, he did but by words not power, Sentry reverted Hulk to Banner but you don't like hearing that.

He exerted far more, eons and eons more in the Genis fight. The reason you deny it is because if it's true (which it is) Sentry is significantly weakened when he fought WWH which makes your argument look weak.

Sentry's stability against Terrax was most likely higher than WWH, he used photokinesis to block a blast then stopped Terrax dead in his tracks with one hand then snapped his axe in 2. He is clearly more stable here.

See you say "Was he all powerful here"

No need to be sarcastic. Sentry's character is based on his mental stability and you know it. If he is performing badly i.e when he stalemated WWH then he unstable. If he can generate power to destroy entire worlds or defeat Terrax in seconds he is more stable, case closed.

"It's time to play god.
You're the only one I can hit like THIS.
Does it always feel this good to let go?"

For the 13th time...

He was losing control, he couldn't compact his power a she was mentally unstable. There is your answer stop misconstruing things and move on now.

I don't want to have to repeat myself for a 14th time.

"Also, huh? He couldn't stop himself because he was mentally messed up? How about he couldn't stop himself because it felt too good not holding back?"

Let me ask you this, if you were mentally ill and you were scared of your strength or going outside but the only way to save someone would be to put them down.

Would you consider yourself if you started attacking them and couldn't stop because you were enjoying killing this person, or you lost control and you didn't know how to stop anymore.

If you have read a book called Of Mice and Men you would know the story of Lennie and Curley. It is the exact same thing.

He knew something would happen.

Why did he tell Sentry he didn't want this fight?

Probably because he knew it wasn't directly his influence under which he intervened.

Sentry said "Please help me god I do"

Doesn't exactly sound like a willing combatant does it. He had no choice.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't think you hate the Hulk but I know you love Sentry and again, I don't mind anyone giving him the majority but "I" disagree (some others as well).

Lol...I never said Hulk could beat a skyfather but I do think WWH strength approaches it.

Maybe you can throw out some trans tiers that is stronger than Hulk. Which ones? I am easily to be convinced in topics like this if you have a solid argument.

I honestly don't think Sorrow is bad as a debater at all and he is reasonable, especially when it comes to Hulk, and us Hulk supporters knows when Hulk loses. None of us has said he could beat Skyfathers, etc..we know his limitation...even as World Breaker but again, his fans are rare. I think you had a disagreement with Sorrow and that thread clung to you. Both of you made some solid arguments and I think you should let it go. All of our opinions being different is what makes KMC what it is.

You're right I like the Hulk and I do love Sentry (and you know why as I have mentioned previously)

But I am not stubborn enough to not admit defeat.

Like the Sentry vs Franklin Richards thread. Enzeru himself said Franklin wins. I didn't comment on it as I had nothing else to add.

I know you never said he could beat Skyfathers. I may have misphrased it, but you did say nobody short of Skyfathers can win.

(sadly I can't edit my message anymore I don't think.)

Trans Tiers stronger than the Hulk.

DS Sentry: Equalled or Exceeded the power of every hero on Earth (including the likes of Hulk and Hyperion)

Voidtry: The exact copy of a stable Sentry except he is more willing to kill.

Stable Normal Sentry: (he has defeated the Void who snapped Hulks bones before you questioned that)

Thanos although a serious WWH could take it close but I think Thanos can edge it out.

These are the only solid trans tier I hear about on these forums. If you tell me a list of people who you think are trans I will tell you my opinion.

The problem was the Sorrow never listened and done the old "Concession accepted 👆" thing, which I disagree with.

He's a cool guy but that just annoyed me but after that we PM'd and it's cool now.

Sure all our opinions are different carver doesn't mean you can deliberately have the wrong one (note I mean that in a jokey manner, not rudely).

Gotcha... so we are in agreement that both Hulk and Sentry didn't exert 1% of their power before, during, and after their fight since we base things off of high showings.

With that said, Gladiator fights (who's powers is mentally based) against Masterson Thor, The Phoenix 5, and the elder doesn't count since before hand he withstood a blast that could level a solar system, busted a planet with his fist, swam through a gas giant, etc, etc...

Let's continue because I think this should apply to all, especially the people who's powers are mental based.

Superman fight against HP Doomsday doesn't count because after this he took out some Probes with ease. Withstood a sun going Nova, and survived a black hole. Remember, per some people, Superman powers or mentally driven.

Let's continue...

Wolverine loses doesn't count against Sabertooth because he defeated an army of Super humans, defeated his entire Rogue in less time than it takes for me to type this and after losing to Sabertooth he has fought the Hulk better than most on Earth have.

Let's continue, I know I can do more. Surfer powers are mentally driven as well. Surfer loss against Thanos doesn't count because he created black hole light yrs wide with casual blast. Ripped a planet along with its moon to dust by head butting someone. Caught a star like blast and threw it at someone. Physically defeated someone that was feeding off of a planet. Beat down Beta Ray Bill.

Who else can I do? This is the most craziest way of debating. Just because someone have high fts before and after a fight (remember that, a fight) doesn't mean he wasn't generating all of his power when he was in a fight. Prime example of this is PG Thor and Thanos fighting. Their fight did NOTHING to the room they were fighting in, n.o.t.h.i.n.g but create a barn fire. I don't think anyone that is sane would say Thor with the gem was holding back. How about this, who do you think is more powerful, power gem Thor or the Thor that was fighting Gorr? Simple question.

Nothing in that fight was referenced as Sentry being unable to control his power. It was stated that Sentry stopped holding back. Don't know why you're ignoring this. Then you are clinging to high showings as evidence. You do know it was stated in the WWH fight that Sentry was going to destroy Earth, right? If planet busting is what you are looking for, then it's there.

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha... so we are in agreement that both Hulk and Sentry didn't exert 1% of their power before, during, and after their fight since we base things off of high showings.

With that said, Gladiator fights (who's powers is mentally based) against Masterson Thor, The Phoenix 5, and the elder doesn't count since before hand he withstood a blast that could level a solar system, busted a planet with his fist, swam through a gas giant, etc, etc...

Let's continue because I think this should apply to all, especially the people who's powers are mental based.

Superman fight against HP Doomsday doesn't count because after this he took out some Probes with ease. Withstood a sun going Nova, and survived a black hole. Remember, per some people, Superman powers or mentally driven.

Let's continue...

Wolverine loses doesn't count against Sabertooth because he defeated an army of Super humans, defeated his entire Rogue in less time than it takes for me to type this and after losing to Sabertooth he has fought the Hulk better than most on Earth have.

Let's continue, I know I can do more. Surfer powers are mentally driven as well. Surfer loss against Thanos doesn't count because he created black hole light yrs wide with casual blast. Ripped a planet along with its moon to dust by head butting someone. Caught a star like blast and threw it at someone. Physically defeated someone that was feeding off of a planet. Beat down Beta Ray Bill.

Who else can I do? This is the most craziest way of debating. Just because someone have high fts before and after a fight (remember that, a fight) doesn't mean he wasn't generating all of his power when he was in a fight. Prime example of this is PG Thor and Thanos fighting. Their fight did NOTHING to the room they were fighting in, n.o.t.h.i.n.g but create a barn fire. I don't think anyone that is sane would say Thor with the gem was holding back. How about this, who do you think is more powerful, power gem Thor or the Thor that was fighting Gorr? Simple question.

Nothing in that fight was referenced as Sentry being unable to control his power. It was stated that Sentry stopped holding back. Don't know why you're ignoring this. Then you are clinging to high showings as evidence. You do know it was stated in the WWH fight that Sentry was going to destroy Earth, right? If planet busting is what you are looking for, then it's there.

No I am not agreeing with you,

You can continue to add nothing to the topic of the thread and have a little hissy fit but I am stating facts. Sentry was hindered by his mental state. Try to get over it and realise that is what happened.

With that said, Gladiator fights (who's powers is mentally based) against Masterson Thor, The Phoenix 5, and the elder doesn't count since before hand he withstood a blast that could level a solar system, busted a planet with his fist, swam through a gas giant, etc, etc...

Let's continue because I think this should apply to all, especially the people who's powers are mental based.

Superman fight against HP Doomsday doesn't count because after this he took out some Probes with ease. Withstood a sun going Nova, and survived a black hole. Remember, per some people, Superman powers or mentally driven.

Let's continue...

Wolverine loses doesn't count against Sabertooth because he defeated an army of Super humans, defeated his entire Rogue in less time than it takes for me to type this and after losing to Sabertooth he has fought the Hulk better than most on Earth have.

Let's continue, I know I can do more. Surfer powers are mentally driven as well. Surfer loss against Thanos doesn't count because he created black hole light yrs wide with casual blast. Ripped a planet along with its moon to dust by head butting someone. Caught a star like blast and threw it at someone. Physically defeated someone that was feeding off of a planet. Beat down Beta Ray Bill.

Nothing to do with anything that I said, care to stop going off topic. If you really want to keep that up on your profile do so. you have 5 minutes to delete it, save yourself the misfortune of people accusing you of something you know isn't true. Purely saying it because you are annoyed . Are you prepared to announce all of them characters powers are based on their mental states now?

Make that thread along with the WWH beating all Trans Tier characters carver. I am still waiting.

List me the people you think are trans tiers and I will give you my opinion.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
No I am not agreeing with you,

You can continue to add nothing to the topic of the thread and have a little hissy fit but I am stating facts. Sentry was hindered by his mental state. Try to get over it and realise that is what happened.

Nothing to do with anything that I said, care to stop going off topic. If you really want to keep that up on your profile do so. you have 5 minutes to delete it, save yourself the misfortune of people accusing you of something you know isn't true. Purely saying it because you are annoyed . Are you prepared to announce all of them characters powers are based on their mental states now?

Make that thread along with the WWH beating all Trans Tier characters carver. I am still waiting.

List me the people you think are trans tiers and I will give you my opinion.

Again, where during that fight did it state Sentry mind was mentally unstable? He came there to take Hulk out. Said that he is playing god. Said Hulk is the only person he can hit like THIS. Said it felt good not holding back. You clinging to something that happened hrs if not a day before the fight again isn't helping you. Just because Sentry powers is mentally driven doesn't mean that when he lose he was weakened. Again, if that's the case then you need to share that love with everyone, including Hulk (since his powers are mental as well).

Where in this thread did i say Hulk could defeat trans tier characters? Please quote me.

I don't mind naming all of these characters as long as you apply the rules you are giving to Sentry to those characters. Are you willing to do this? Again, this applies to Hulk since his fts before and after the Sentry fight is far better.

Originally posted by carver9
Again, where during that fight did it state Sentry mind was mentally unstable? He came there to take Hulk out. Said that he is playing god. Said Hulk is the only person he can hit like THIS. Said it felt good not holding back. You clinging to something that happened hrs if not a day before the fight again isn't helping you. Just because Sentry powers is mentally driven doesn't mean that when he lose he was weakened. Again, if that's the case then you need to share that love with everyone, including Hulk (since his powers are mental as well).

Where in this thread did i say Hulk could defeat trans tier characters? Please quote me.

I don't mind naming all of these characters as long as you apply the rules you are giving to Sentry to those characters. Are you willing to do this? Again, this applies to Hulk since his fts before and after the Sentry fight is far better.

Here is your proof showing he was weakened, for your information that whole post me and Enzeru spoke about for a couple of days, and he wrote that based on me telling him about how my Agoraphobia affects me, along with links I shared with him. So you can't say it wasn't well researched.

Originally posted by Enzeru
[b]Sentry Q & A:

Why are Sentry's agoraphobia and his other mental issues such a big problem?

I want to expand on one topic that has already been covered up in this thread: Sentry agoraphobia and his generalized anxiety disorder. I would like to explain it further and in greater detail why these two mental issues are such a big problem for someone and how they affects the mind and the body:

Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder characterized by anxiety in situations where the sufferer perceives certain environments as dangerous or uncomfortable, often due to the environment's vast openness or crowdedness. These situations include wide-open spaces, as well as uncontrollable social situations.
The sufferer may go to great lengths to avoid those situations, in severe cases becoming unable to leave their home or safe haven.

>>> In Sentry's case that is something that has been acknowledged by other characters as well:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108566/4020344-g1.jpg

>>> And the worst case scenario has been shown during the World War Hulk arc, where Sentry was not able to leave his house for days:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108566/3405753-b1.jpg

>>> He also states that there are bad agoraphobic days, where it's simply not working out:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108566/3405753-b1.jpg

Agoraphobia patients can experience sudden panic attacks when traveling to places where they fear they are out of control, help would be difficult to obtain, or they could be embarrassed. During a panic attack, epinephrineis released in large amounts, triggering the body's natural fight-or-flight response. A panic attack typically has an abrupt onset, building to maximum intensity within 10 to 15 minutes, and rarely lasts longer than 30 minutes. Symptoms of a panic attack include palpitations, a rapid heartbeat, sweating, trembling, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, tightness in the throat and shortness of breath. Many patients report a fear of dying or of losing control of emotions and / or behavior.

>>> Sentry also states that he is afraid of losing the control over his powers:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/45138/935886-aa_wwh03_027.jpg

Although the exact causes of agoraphobia are currently unknown, some clinicians who have treated or attempted to treat agoraphobia offer plausible hypotheses. The condition has been linked to the presence of other anxiety disorders, a stressful environment or substance abuse.

>>> With substance abuse being a possible cause for agoraphobia Sentry comes into the discussion yet again, due to him having a history of being a drug addict in the past:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108566/4019856-x1.jpg

>>> However that is not the only possible cause, because anxiety disorders are in that list as well and Sentry suffers from generalized anxiety disorder:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108566/4020314-123.jpg

To quote the scan above: "He (Sentry) also suffers from agoraphobia and generalized anxiety disorder."

And this is what you need to know, when it comes to that anxiety disorder:

Generalized anxiety disorder is an anxiety disorder that is characterized by excessive, uncontrollable and often irrational worry. This excessive worry often interferes with daily functioning, as the suffering individuals typically anticipate disaster, and are overly concerned about everyday matters such as health issues, money, death, family problems, friendship problems, interpersonal relationship problems, or work difficulties.
Individuals often exhibit a variety of physical symptoms, including fatigue, fidgeting, headaches, nausea, numbness in hands and feet, muscle tension, muscle aches, difficulty swallowing, bouts of difficulty breathing, difficulty concentrating, trembling, twitching, irritability, agitation, sweating, restlessness, insomnia, hot flashes, and rashes and inability to fully control the anxiety.

By reading that it becomes rather obvious that generalized anxiety disorder weakens the body and that is also the case for the Sentry, when he is struggeling with his phobia / illness:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/101942/3189038-1234124.jpg

If you managed to read through all of this, then you should now be able to understand better why people are often talking about a mentally stable and a mentally unstable Sentry. If he is being affected by the agoraphobia and his anxiety, he instantly becomes less potent. The agoraphobia can drain his confidence and prevent him from leaving a safe zone, while the generalized anxiety disorder weakens his body and makes him less powerful.

References:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoraphobia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalized_anxiety_disorder [/B]

Here you go

100% proof right here.

If you want I can post the other 2 pages Enzeru made showing his mental state affecting him, I can paste you them if you want.

Also just name me trans tiers and I will give you my opinion, you really want to know I will tell you. Sentry doesn't come into it. Only the trans tiers you list as far as I am concerned.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Here is your proof showing he was weakened, for your information that whole post me and Enzeru spoke about for a couple of days, and he wrote that based on me telling him about how my Agoraphobia affects me, along with links I shared with him. So you can't say it wasn't well researched.

Here you go

100% proof right here.

If you want I can post the other 2 pages Enzeru made showing his mental state affecting him, I can paste you them if you want.

Sigh*...that isn't proof. This is my last post on the subject. They are talking about his mentally messed up he is and what conditions he have but they are not saying he was mentally compromised at that moment. Yes, we all know he is jacked up, he even knows it but nothing was shown of him being mentally compromised then or during the fight and standing at a door for hrs thinking about a fight that he knows the cost (him losing control as stated in your scan, going all out).

Someone being stronger doesn't mean they can beat someone in that tier. Odin have a thousand ways until Sunday at defeating a lot of people that is physically stronger than him. This includes Surfer as well. Strength doesn't= power.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Also just name me trans tiers and I will give you my opinion, you really want to know I will tell you. Sentry doesn't come into it. Only the trans tiers you list as far as I am concerned.

That Hulk is stronger than?

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh*...that isn't proof. This is my last post on the subject. They are talking about his mentally messed up he is and what conditions he have but they are not saying he was mentally compromised at that moment. Yes, we all know he is jacked up, he even knows it but nothing was shown of him being mentally compromised then or during the fight and standing at a door for hrs thinking about a fight that he knows the cost (him losing control as stated in your scan, going all out).

Someone being stronger doesn't mean they can beat someone in that tier. Odin have a thousand ways until Sunday at defeating a lot of people that is physically stronger than him. This includes Surfer as well. Strength doesn't= power.

You're such a damn liar you really are. It is right infront of you and you still are lying. And look as I catch you out you are making excuses. Just admit you were proved wrong and I caught you out. The more you wriggle out of it the bad your position looks.

And again he was mentally compromised. You just don't want to know it because Hulk is diminished if so.

You see what I meant about Hulk getting a bad rep. You are a prime example.

Just admit you're wrong and this thread and debate between us can be over.

Care to name them Trans Tiers yet?

Originally posted by carver9
That Hulk is stronger than?

No name trans tiers and I will give my opinion on if they defeat WWH, since that's what you asked me to do.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
You're such a damn liar you really are. It is right infront of you and you still are lying. And look as I catch you out you are making excuses. Just admit you were proved wrong and I caught you out. The more you wriggle out of it the bad your position looks.

And again he was mentally compromised. You just don't want to know it because Hulk is diminished if so.

You see what I meant about Hulk getting a bad rep. You are a prime example.

Just admit you're wrong and this thread and debate between us can be over.

Care to name them Trans Tiers yet?

😕

I honestly don't get it. In one scan you have someone in a helicopter talking about Sentry handicap. Key word, talking about it. Not saying he is in that condition at the moment but talking about it, and even if he was in that condition, what does that have to do with his fight against the Hulk? That scene happened before the fight. GOD!!!

When he arrived there his goal was to take out the Hulk just like his goal was to take out Genis, Terrax, the Collector. Sentry was worried about fighting Hulk because he knew the consequences as stated here in your own scan...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/45138/935886-aa_wwh03_027.jpg

Let's put it like this, if it was Ironman who was causing trouble in New York and Sentry had to go take him out, there would have been no stress at all. He knew the stakes, knew fighting this version of Hulk would lead to him using everything at his disposal and thats exactly what happened and it felt good to him. He let go.

Every scan that you posted just now from Enzuru was statements of a condition we all know about, doesn't mean that he was compromised during the fight though unless again you have proof, and ya don't. So again, lets get off of this topic.

Onslaught combined with Nate, Franklin, Professor X, and Magneto is trans tier and Hulk is stronger. There you go, one person.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
No name trans tiers and I will give my opinion on if they defeat WWH, since that's what you asked me to do.

OMG!!!! When did i ask you if a character can defeat Hulk or not in the trans tier category? I'm done. I'm just done.

Originally posted by carver9
OMG!!!! When did i ask you if a character can defeat Hulk or not in the trans tier category? I'm done. I'm just done.

Here you go, want to stop protesting your innocence

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Here you go, want to stop protesting your innocence

Lol... the definition of strong/er...

having the power to move heavy weights or perform other physically demanding tasks.

Definition of beat/defeat...

win a victory over (someone) in a battle or other contest; overcome or beat.

Straight from Google. We are done here. Just stop.

Originally posted by carver9
😕

I honestly don't get it. In one scan you have someone in a helicopter talking about Sentry handicap. Key word, talking about it. Not saying he is in that condition at the moment but talking about it, and even if he was in that condition, what does that have to do with his fight against the Hulk? That scene happened before the fight. GOD!!!

When he arrived there his goal was to take out the Hulk just like his goal was to take out Genis, Terrax, the Collector. Sentry was worried about fighting Hulk because he knew the consequences as stated here in your own scan...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/45138/935886-aa_wwh03_027.jpg

Let's put it like this, if it was Ironman who was causing trouble in New York and Sentry had to go take him out, there would have been no stress at all. He knew the stakes, knew fighting this version of Hulk would lead to him using everything at his disposal and thats exactly what happened and it felt good to him. He let go.

Every scan that you posted just now from Enzuru was statements of a condition we all know about, doesn't mean that he was compromised during the fight though unless again you have proof, and you don't. So again, lets get off of this topic.

Onslaught combined with Nate, Franklin, Professor X, and Magneto is trans tier and Hulk is stronger. There you go, one person.

So you are ignoring the thread and the post I made.

Yes he is saying if he lost control everything was in danger not because he was thinking about losing.

It's a condition that is relevant stop denying it is when it's essential to Sentry's character.

"Onslaught combined with Nate, Franklin, Professor X, and Magneto is trans tier and Hulk is stronger. There you go, one person."

I don't even see how that is relevant.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
So you are ignoring the thread and the post I made.

Yes he is saying if he lost control everything was in danger not because he was thinking about losing.

It's a condition that is relevant stop denying it is when it's essential to Sentry's character.

"Onslaught combined with Nate, Franklin, Professor X, and Magneto is trans tier and Hulk is stronger. There you go, one person."

I don't even see how that is relevant.

😕

Originally posted by carver9
😕

Something wrong?

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Something wrong?

I'm done.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm done.

Why?