Originally posted by Riot-Gear
How is that? From what I recall they have similar enough feats, that their is no reason to assume it would not be a good fight.In case their is something I have forgotten. Please feel free to present a case for Cap dominating Bats.
Then you need to rewatch the movies, because Caps feats >>>>>> Baleman.
Originally posted by Riot-Gear
How is that? From what I recall they have similar enough feats, that their is no reason to assume it would not be a good fight.In case their is something I have forgotten. Please feel free to present a case for Cap dominating Bats.
you've made me curious....why do you think that specific era batman stands a chance? what feats are you thinking of?
Originally posted by Silent Master
Then you need to rewatch the movies, because Caps feats >>>>>> Baleman.
Actually I think you need to reread my post. As I never suggested Baleman stood a chance in fact I said the opposite, that he would get crushed.
The Batman I said would be a good match for MCU Cap was the one from the Burton/Schumacher films. Some times known as the Batman Anthology.
Originally posted by Riot-Gear
Actually I think you need to reread my post. As I never suggested Baleman stood a chance in fact I said the opposite, that he would get crushed.The Batman I said would be a good match for MCU Cap was the one from the Burton/Schumacher films. Some times known as the Batman Anthology.
tho you have yet to state why you think that
Originally posted by wallman77
you've made me curious....why do you think that specific era batman stands a chance? what feats are you thinking of?
Originally posted by wallman77
tho you have yet to state why you think that
Your right I hadn't got that far yet and before I do it should be noted that so no one in this thread has really given reason for their position on this fight.
To answer your question. Simply put, as I said earlier similar feats.
Now to specifics. Beginning with the physical stuff. Breaking it down to Categories or stats as is often done in these kinds of discussions.
Strength - This is actually kind of to multiple categories. Such "Lifting" power/strength, these are the kinds of feats most often cited to gauge a characters strength and "striking" power, pretty much what it says on the tin, how hard a character can hit, etc.
Regardless getting into it. Captain America lifting the large piece(s) of debris off of Bucky in Winter Soldier is probably the single best feat in terms of "lifting". Of course while not lifting in the proper sense the implied pushing feat of the large tractor from Agents SHIELD, is also impressive. Which is why this kind of strength can be said to favor Cap. By how much is the question though.
That said Batman is by no means weak. As he has been seen to casually lift and hold aloft grown men while conversing with them. He also caught and lifted a falling Vickie Vale while dangling by his finger tips and did something similar with Catwoman.
He's also able to lift and throw grown men a couple of meters in the air and several meters away.
Then we have him, with relative ease lifting and carrying Robin in "Batman and Robin" after Robin was encased in ice. Robin alone probably weighed the better part of 200 pounds, while the ice around him is likely to weigh at least several hundred pounds.
The next one granted not a direct feat for Batman, but in the same movie we see Robin hang on the side ( the outside that is ) of a rocket seemingly headed for orbit. This would take truly impressive amount of strength, given the forces and speed involved. Similarly Catwoman is shown to be able to tear/pull apart metal paneling and carry/drag an unwilling woman up a ladder and across a roof in mere moments. I bring up a Robin/Catwoman feats only because we see Batman over power them a couple of times in the films.
So while Cap has the most impressive feat and has feats to match the above ( mentioned feats ) in spades. It is clear that Batman is by no means weak in terms of shall we say raw strength. Meaning that while Rogers may be stronger and likely is, it is not by such a large margin that he can easily overpower Wayne.
Then there is striking power. These kinds of feats are often used imply a characters overall strength, but the ability to hit with incredible force is different then being able to lift, carry, or throw large amounts.
In this area the margin between Captain America and Batman is even smaller. If one exist at all. As both have demonstrated the ability to kick or punch grown men with enough force to knock them a few feet in the air and several feet back, some times threw walls/closed doors etc.
True Cap does it more often, indicating that it may be easier for him. On the other hand we have seen Batman punch threw the metal/armor plating of the Batmobile and shatter aircraft glass ( which is typically reinforced ) with a head butt. So even if Cap has minute advantage, the difference between them would be so negligible as to make little practical difference.
Lets move on to durability and damage soak.
Right out the gate we have seen both men weather beatings from opponents that can do the work of a demolition team with their hands and feet. Even if both were occasionally dazed by blows from what were supposed to be regular people.
Still on the whole Rogers can jump out of a plane with no parachute and Batman can walk off a plane crash and jump out a helicopter with no parachute. That said more often then not Cap tried to land on his shield when fell and the last drop into the Potomac left him unconscious, granted a lot of that had to do with the damage he took earlier in the fight.
That brings us to the next point of discussion. Gunshots or rather how both deal with being shot. Bats soaks bullets as a matter of course in fact its part of his shtick, he essentially laughs it off and uses it for shock value. Cap on the other hand is hurt by bullets, they slow him down. A fair amount in fact. In those situations he does seem to deal with actual injury of that kind better then Batman though. How much this helps when it’s a lot harder to hurt Batman in the first place is questionable.
No doubt somebody is going to point out that Batman’s durability is because of his armor and it is, but as this is Batman vs. Captain America, not Bruce Wayne vs. Steve Rogers I’m going to assume both are in costume and have their gear. That and outside of his suit we have very little to go on for Bruce, though what we do have suggests that a plain clothes contest in this department would favor Rogers.
So back to Batman vs. Captain America. Bats and Cap have displayed similar levels of blunt trauma soak. Still Batman’s ability to walk away from a hail of gunfire. Does indicate better over all durability. How much that matters when neither is likely using a gun is a worth while question and the question that basically re-levels the playing field. Much like above in reverse while this stat may favor Batman by a small margin, it not by enough for it to net him the win.
Lets see speed. Caps probably got the edge in running speed based on the Winter Soldier opening and the fact that Batman doesn’t really run. On the other hand he does seem to scale buildings rather rapidly a couple of times.
Now for the other kind of speed, as in reaction speed or reaction time. In Avengers there are moments when Cap blocks with his shield and/or dodges Chitauri weapons fire seemingly after it fired and is rather adept in all is movies at blocking incoming fire as the shooter is aiming or firing. Remember though Chitauri energy bullets don’t travel at near the same speed as bullets, as we can track their movement across the screen with the naked human eye. Still Cap is presented as a relatively high end aim dodger.
Batman on the other hand has blocked a bullet after it was fired as well as similar aim dodging feats in regards to gun fire. In other word Batman has better reaction time feats, but once again given Cap dancing threw Chitarui blasts it not by enough that Cap wont be landing blows.
I could and will keep going if you want me to, but I think the above is a good demonstration of my position. That being that it would be a good fight and the winner is by no means clear.
Note that if you believe I've over looked or am in error about something by all means let me know.
Similarly If you want further specifics or have questions regarding feats mentioned with out sourcing. Just ask.
Originally posted by 80sBaby
Wasn't Burton's Batman getting rocked by a normal human goon in the 1st film?
I'm guessing you mean Joker's big guy in the Cathedral fight. If so a couple of things to remember this fight takes place just after Batman was in a plane crash and fought a few other guys and secondly this same "normal" human was able to catch Batman mid air and toss him across the room, when Bat's tried to dive tackle him from several feet above. In other words the guy wasn't exactly normal and Batman wasn't exactly at his best.
Re: Captain America vs Batman
Originally posted by relentless1
Ive been debating this one with a friend for the evening, I say Batman would win. And before all you Cap fanboys jump on here, representing your cap denominator let me just point out; Bats vs Cap can really be distilled down to three categories: Physicality, Fighting Skill, Gadgets; Cap wins Physicality for sure, he can bench 1200, Bats can press 1000; Cap is faster and more durable BUT Batman has more fighting skill; Cap knows about 12 martial arts while Batman has mastered 127, meaning that anything Cap can throw at Batman h2h will be countered. gadgets is also a no brainer for Batman because while Caps shield is very durable and quite versatile he doesnt have explosives, gas attack, projectiles, tazers etc like Batman does, more versatility in weaponry equals Batman finding a way around the shields defence. 2 out of 3 categories go to Batman. Its a helluva fight but Batman wins 6/10
lol
Originally posted by Based
wat
Originally posted by relentless1
Ive been debating this one with a friend for the evening, I say Batman would win. And before all you Cap fanboys jump on here, representing your cap denominator let me just point out; Bats vs Cap can really be distilled down to three categories: Physicality, Fighting Skill, Gadgets; Cap wins Physicality for sure, he can bench 1200, Bats can press 1000; Cap is faster and more durable BUT Batman has more fighting skill; Cap knows about 12 martial arts while Batman has mastered 127, meaning that anything Cap can throw at Batman h2h will be countered. gadgets is also a no brainer for Batman because while Caps shield is very durable and quite versatile he doesnt have explosives, gas attack, projectiles, tazers etc like Batman does, more versatility in weaponry equals Batman finding a way around the shields defence. 2 out of 3 categories go to Batman. Its a helluva fight but Batman wins 6/10
Originally posted by Riot-Gear
I'm guessing you mean Joker's big guy in the Cathedral fight. If so a couple of things to remember this fight takes place just after Batman was in a plane crash and fought a few other guys and secondly this same "normal" human was able to catch Batman mid air and toss him across the room, when Bat's tried to dive tackle him from several feet above. In other words the guy wasn't exactly normal and Batman wasn't exactly at his best.
True. But Cap, in contrast, took a beating from several specialized SHIELD agents, jumped out of a (very) high-rise window to land on concrete yet still got up quickly and took down a jet fighter with just his shield.
Hell, in Avengers, Cap went down in the jet with Hawkeye and Black Widow, while not being strapped in and went on to fight a ground war, pretty much solo. He then got blown out a window, landed on a car so hard it caved in the roof and still got up to fight alongside Thor. Then got shot in the stomach and was still ready for more. It was only after all of this did he look anywhere near as wiped as Bruce did after being shot down.
And you forgot about Cap lifting a motorcycle, with 3 grown women on top, for several USO tours.
Cap also punched through submarine glass, which has to be extremely reinforced due to the massive pressures at ocean depths. And he punched through it while underwater, so he couldn't generate as much force as normal, and then he threw the guy from the water onto the dry dock which was a good 15-20 feet above him.
Considering they are trying to say that Batman surviving a plane crashing from maybe a couple hundred feet while strapped into his seat is an equal durability feat to Cap surviving jumping out of a plane without a chute and that they're using the argument that bullets are harder to see thus they must have been faster than the energy weapons, do you really expect them to admit to how impressive Cap's feats are?