Batman vs Captain America

Originally posted by Deadline
No preNu52 Batman. This is the point I'm and he is making, he has been in millions of situations were he is in dire straits and not pulled any tazers and other stuff.

Batman hadn't been sleeping properly and was tired and still went up against Bane and was just using h2h skills.

Not only that we see him using an explosive earlier on in that arc but didn't use it against Bane, another incident during that arc he was in trouble against Amygadlia, still no tazers. This is why I'm having a hard time accepting it as standard equipment those showings are not the norm and if you're bringing in prerebbot Batman stuff thats even worse.

That was my point.

Using preboot Batman is stupid.

Shabazz shouldn't have brought that in.

As we use current versions.

Shab shouldnt do a lot of the things he does. 😉

Also i see we were treated to creative interpretation of feats 101 by abhi. Always fun.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That was my point.

Using preboot Batman is stupid.

It is? Why? It's not like there is any real difference between the two and I think Bane breaking Batman is still canon. It's not like every thing got retconned.

I don't get your logic.

Current versions.
Its a good rule, because it keeps people from mixing and matching feats snd stats to suit them.
If a version other than current's wanted, its put out in the Op.

Originally posted by Deadline
It is? Why? It's not like there is any real difference between the two and I think Bane breaking Batman is still canon. It's not like every thing got retconned.

I don't get your logic.

My logic was, one is DCnU, where Bane was a markedly different beast, and the other is preboot. So different versions. Forum rules.

Yea but the old Batman isn't a different version he's pretty much the same character. The reason why people make a fuss about pre-crisis is usually to do with Superman because pre-crisis Superman was much more powerful.

Yes but many other characters were as well, and some were less. And some have done things others havent.

I just had to clarify in the Karate Kid Black Panther thread which KK i meant, as even though they're basically all the same some feats only apply to some versions.
You know as well as i in a debate folks will latch on to anything they can yo prop their choice up and knock the other choice down.
This (in theory) saves time.

Originally posted by riv6672
Yes but many other characters were as well, and some were less. And some have done things others havent.

I just had to clarify in the Karate Kid Black Panther thread which KK i meant, as even though they're basically all the same some feats only apply to some versions.
You know as well as i in a debate folks will latch on to anything they can yo prop their choice up and knock the other choice down.
This (in theory) saves time.

Bro. I don't think that post addresses anything I said. The point is old Batman isn't different from the 'new' one.

Yea in the BP thread you could argue at least one of those guys was different. Not sure how I can make myself clearer.

Using your logic I could argue that Mark Waid's Cap was a different version to the other Captain Americas.

Well, sorry i wasted our time then.

And Byrne Superman Vs Curt Swan Superman. No difference? Or different Supermen? 😉

Originally posted by riv6672
Well, sorry i wasted our time then.

And Byrne Superman Vs Curt Swan Superman. No difference? Or different Supermen? 😉

I dunno maybe you are. I just don't see the point in getting rid of decades of feats for Batman on a principle that doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know enough about Superman but you could argue maybe Byrne Superman is diifferent cos I heard he was in some ways weaker than the more 'modern' Superman. Well you tell me.

I could certainly argue that Remender punisher is different from other versions of Punisher because he was different (toughest version of Punisher ever written). Punisher is a bit strange cos he can fluctuate quite a bit depending on what the writers wants, hes kinda unique like that.

EDIT: You might be right though. I see people talking about new52 Superman but I suspect again because there is a significant difference between new52 Superman and old Superman that doesn't apply to Batman. One time I even argued you could use pre-crisis Batman feats... and that's because the character hasn't changed that much.

Originally posted by Shabazz916
batman has all that equipment and yet got his back broke... but thats none of my business

Originally posted by Shabazz916
batman has all that equipment and yet got his back broke... but thats none of my business

Originally posted by Deadline
Well if it is standard equipment Cap is losing. I don't wanna give Bats the win but I might have to.

Lol.

I love you. Great find 👆

Now, I guess we can use this thread with Alberto's stips, and continue our fruitful discussion.

Both fighters are in character.
Random Encounter, No Prep time, No Prior Knowledge.
Bruce Wayne is Post Crisis, Steve Rogers is regular version (No Hydra Cap)
These combatants are fighting in an generic city, 100 feet apart from eachother and visible.
Wins are by Incapitation

PC/New 52 Bats vs 616 Cap

standard gadgets

RIGHT.

Let's go.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deadline
Dunno about that. Normal batarangs will get dodged, explosive batarangs will get dodged. Gas pellets won't neccesarily work because it's an open envinronment Cap can hold his breath and dodge out of the way of the area of effect of the gas. Magnets probably won't work because Cap knows he has all sorts of gadgets and will hold onto his shield. It's possible that Cap could throw the sheild so hard that if Bats try to use megnets it will take his head off. Sonics, well Caps has resisted sonics from Tony Starks after taking a beating from Iron man those sonics were shutting down the brains of other heroes. Sonics are a bit like TP attacks and require willpower to resist, Cap has resisted TP from Red Skull using Xaviers brain.

Also Cap can pressure point Batman to make it hard from him to fight, he's more skilled and has a stat advantage. If he can do it to Iron Spiderman he can do it to Bats. Another tactic is that Cap could just keep his distance and let Bats throw all his weapons they are all limited to range. So gas won't cover the whole area, neither will sonics.

So you are under the mistaken assumption that Batman only has:
1. Normal batarangs
2.Explosive batarangs
3. Gas pellets
4. Magnets
5. Sonics.

Lol. Ok.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deadline
Oh yeah of course, my argument though is it makes sense for him to hold onto it. If he does throw it however it will be to trick Batman.

[quote]quote: (post)
[b]Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
ok but the fact is in reality without cap holding back he would put a shield through his chest in like .5 seconds. a force going through an armored truck etc that was posted above? that force would kill bats

Lol. Sheer stupidity here. YOUR OWN OP STATES THEY ARE IN CHARACTER. THAT THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF EACH OTHER.

Please post scans of Cap, in character (you even stated its not evil Cap, lol), killing an opponent he has never met before, and has no reason to kill.

But let's get back to the gear.

'Item 42...we have catalogued about 30% of his belt'. If 42=30%, then simple maths means he has 140 items in his belt alone. Now, note that batarangS, PLURAL, are all counted as ONE item:

AND this ignores all the gear stored in his boots, gauntlets, and teeth etc...

Wait, what? Teeth?
https://i.postimg.cc/7Y9SYxpw/detec...scapeartist.jpg

Let Cap keep his shield, as Deadline asserts.

Batman throws his Batarangs (standard procedure, agree?)

*CLANG*

Now, what would the World's Greatest Detective...deduce from that sound? That it is metal?

Why not try magnets?
https://i.postimg.cc/SRW7GCTM/green...netbatarang.jpg

Those are Rocket Reds, btw. An entire group of them.

Shield, gone.

Then?

Grapple line.
https://i.postimg.cc/W4hGHQYj/batma...grapnelgun1.jpg

How strong is this line?
https://i.postimg.cc/J4LQzY0c/batma...grapnelgun2.jpg

15 tons breaking point. If Cap has feats showing he can do lateral raises with 15tons, please post. Not asking for him LIFTING 15 tons, or benching, or pulling - it has to be side lateral raises, which use much smaller muscles.

CAP CAN DODGE! OPEN ENVIRONMENT!

Here, Bats uses a blackout bomb over an entire area:
https://i.postimg.cc/59wwT5gH/batma...blacksmoke1.jpg

Or here, Bats uses flashbangs, over an area:
https://i.postimg.cc/Kjyt44Gv/batma...tflashbangs.jpg

Or here, uses his grappeling gun like Darkseid's Omega Beams (wha?? Click the link to see!):
https://i.postimg.cc/G3YQrnLm/batdk2-omegagun1.jpg

Or here, has capsules which become bat-nets:
https://i.postimg.cc/JhvNVPSX/gotha...t2-batnets2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/2SHdTzw2/gotha...t2-batnets4.jpg

Cap can probably (100% sure, actually) bust out of one net. Two? Three? 10? Whilst he's unable to see where the next attack is coming from? Whilst his shield is gone? Whilst his arms are bound by his side, restrained by Class 15 grappel lines?

He's not dodging anything.

And for Smurph:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Smurph
Also, it's a huge leap to assume that Bats is constantly carrying every gadget he's ever used in a prep-less fight.

The scan of his equipment was for you, btw 😍😍

And yes, he just...packs stuff, randomly, Just In Case:
https://i.postimg.cc/pd7qPDpw/batdefroster3.jpg

Cap is considered the greatest combat vet in history he is faster more skilled more durable and way more experienced he is a true combat Guinness he masters forms in days better than people who have studied them for years he masters in weapon he uses in seconds

Tech can make it a problem but Cap is a extraordinary strategist also...

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Cap is considered the greatest combat vet in history he is faster more skilled more durable and way more experienced he is a true combat Guinness he masters forms in days better than people who have studied them for years he masters in weapon he uses in seconds

Tech can make it a problem but Cap is a extraordinary strategist also...

How will a strategist strategise out of a mass AoE blackout bomb?

Note in my tooth scan, even when the trained soldiers switched to thermal vision, they still couldn't see Batman. Who could see them just fine.

Cap doesn't even have that luxury of thermal vision. And if anyone says he uses his hearing, well.....sonics.

Moreover, being considered ANYTHING is not proof. Batman is considered the most dangerous man on Earth....that doesn't give him the automatic win.

considering cap can almost instantly adapt to any style or situation i guess i cant blame you he has decades of constant combat experiance bats is not going to throw anything at him he has not seen before

So counter an AoE smoke bomb or AoE flashbang.

yes adapt to any situation do you have any clue how much crazy tech he faced against hydra during the war let alone during his more modern time against the Avengers and why are you acting like he has no experience with people like Batman people like black panther or moon knight really

you using basic gadgets he has defeated a 100 times in comics because under this circumstance or that circumstance they were effective that's going to decide it really