Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So when its good for him to take credit for it and run with it for a campaign to win an election and re election, its ok to run on lies. Then when those lies catch up to you, its not a lie cause it really wasn't his fault, is this what you are saying or implying?
I didn't say it's okay to run on lies. But Obama is a full blood politician, he ran his campaign on lies (as much as McCain and Romney did). Like, in his campaigns he pretended to be a left leaning progressive, when actually in action he is a right leaning moderate. I don't like that he promised things that he didn't keep. I'm not a fan of Obama, I think he is a pretty bad president, and he doesn't deserve credit or blame for removing troops from Iraq, cause he didn't.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I didn't say it's okay to run on lies. But Obama is a full blood politician, he ran his campaign on lies (as much as McCain and Romney did). Like, in his campaigns he pretended to be a left leaning progressive, when actually in action he is a right leaning moderate.
Glad we agree they are all liars and cannot be trust, now we can move on. Why do chose to focus on defending this actions here if him and all of them are liars and they deceive us to gain power.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Videos of a presidents speeches is not a credible way to get information?
Not when they're edited down to seem as damning as possible, nor when they're from a site with a blatant agenda against the person in question. There are better, fairer ways to get such information, which others have posted, and you've ignored.
I'm still waiting for you to show me the radical politicians, and all the radical things they did, btw.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Glad we agree they are all liars and cannot be trust, now we can move on. Why do chose to focus on defending this actions here if him and all of them are liars and they deceive us to gain power.
I am not defending his actions. I am pointing out that he didn't act. He didn't remove the troops, in fact, he failed to ensure that they stayed there for longer as he wanted.
Originally posted by BackFire
Not when they're edited down to seem as damning as possible, nor when they're from a site with a blatant agenda against the person in question. There are better, fairer ways to get such information, which others have posted, and you've ignored.I'm still waiting for you to show me the radical politicians, and all the radical things they did, btw.
I feel that you are running from the truth here bro. I really am, I know media slants things, but a video of him saying the same thing over and over again and then when he is asks why, he denies.
In any war we have been in we always left a contiengcy of troops behind such as bases and men. Look at Germany, Japan and all the other military bases around the world. He had the option to leave this and he chose to do a 100% withdraw. Now we are slowly going back in, we had them beat and we ran and they came back.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I am not defending his actions. I am pointing out that he didn't act. He didn't remove the troops, in fact, he failed to ensure that they stayed there for longer as he wanted.
He failed to ensure that they stayed there for longer as he wanted...um wtf? That statement if true contridicts its self.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I feel that you are running from the truth here bro. I really am, I know media slants things, but a video of him saying the same thing over and over again and then when he is asks why, he denies.In any war we have been in we always left a contiengcy of troops behind such as bases and men. Look at Germany, Japan and all the other military bases around the world. He had the option to leave this and he chose to do a 100% withdraw. Now we are slowly going back in, we had them beat and we ran and they came back.
So how long should we have stayed in Iraq? The public wanted that war over, it's one of the reasons Obama was elected.
Also, we did leave some soldiers there after the withdrawal. Roughly 100.
Originally posted by BackFire
So how long should we have stayed in Iraq? The public wanted that war over, it's one of the reasons Obama was elected.Also, we did leave some soldiers there after the withdrawal. Roughly 100.
So then we are going back to that road if we go by these statements.
If the war was ending and Obama didn't order them out, how can he take credit for it?
To train, arm and keep those bases running we had would have required at least a few thousand men on rotation out of combat missions, which Obama claims the men he is sending back in now are not in combat missions.
Originally posted by red g jacks
link doesn't work for me.we've always had a progressive tax rate so we've always been 'redistributing the wealth.' in fact we do a lot less redistributing of wealth today than we did historically in the post war era.
Link showed how Obama adjusted the tax policy to hit the rich much harder while providing relief to the poorer. I do not object to that.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
He failed to ensure that they stayed there for longer as he wanted...um wtf? That statement if true contridicts its self.
He wanted to leave troops in Iraq beyond 2011, but he wasn't able to do it.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Link showed how Obama adjusted the tax policy to hit the rich much harder while providing relief to the poorer. I do not object to that.
Could you link that again, because I don't think that Obama raised taxes much at all, and the current tax rate is more favourable to the rich than it has been in a long, long time.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Could you link that again, because I don't think that Obama raised taxes much at all, and the current tax rate is more favourable to the rich than it has been in a long, long time.
Sure.
Here are/were the projected tax changes by income levels (compared to the levels they were at, then):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_presidential_candidates,_2008#Tax_policy
Edit -
Tried a bunch of times. It's the title. The comma is breaking the link. I'll see if my Wikipedia logon is "good enough" to edit the title.
Okay, this is the link: http://goo.gl/UHNQy5
This is just about proposed tax policy changes, though. Do you have a link how taxes actually changed under Obama, because, like we said, Obama has been far more left in his words and promises than in action.
I found this Washington Post write up in 2012, back then he really mostly lowered taxes, extended the Bush tax cuts. He didn't really tax high income people more. Not sure if he did anything like that since then, but tbh I doubt it.
Obama's just not a particular left leaning president.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Okay, this is the link: http://goo.gl/UHNQy5This is just about proposed tax policy changes, though. Do you have a link how taxes actually changed under Obama, because, like we said, Obama has been far more left in his words and promises than in action.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I found this Washington Post write up in 2012, back then he really mostly lowered taxes, extended the Bush tax cuts. He didn't really tax high income people more. Not sure if he did anything like that since then, but tbh I doubt it.Obama's just not a particular left leaning president.
No, do you have a link for that same information you're asking me for? Something recent as 2014? Because some tax changes have happened under Obama from 2009-2014, almost every year.
Source: I pay taxes.
Edit -
Here is a nice list. Should give a much better picture of his tax policies (which show that he is leftist):
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/subjects/taxes/
These 3, in particular, account for the majority of that "tax money" under his tax policies:
He kept the tax cuts for lower incomes and increased taxes on higher incomes: my exact point from earlier. Sure, they are not as far reaching as he wanted. But his other areas where he gets the "rich" are better and I think he kept his promise to repeal the bush-era tax cuts for the super rich.
And this particular tax focus should settle the discussion:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/1111/enact-buffett-rule/
Originally posted by dadudemon
No, do you have a link for that same information you're asking me for? Something recent as 2014? Because some tax changes have happened under Obama from 2009-2014, almost every year.Source: I pay taxes.
Edit -
Here is a nice list. Should give a much better picture of his tax policies (which show that he is leftist):
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/subjects/taxes/
These 3, in particular, account for the majority of that "tax money" under his tax policies:
He kept the tax cuts for lower incomes and increased taxes on higher incomes: my exact point from earlier. Sure, they are not as far reaching as he wanted. But his other areas where he gets the "rich" are better and I think he kept his promise to repeal the bush-era tax cuts for the super rich.
And this particular tax focus should settle the discussion:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/1111/enact-buffett-rule/
So it seems that finally, in 2013, he was able to raise some taxes for extreme high income earners, albeit not as high as they were in the Clinton years, which I believe was the point that people here made regarding Obama's "not that left" stance.
Originally posted by Bardock42
So it seems that finally, in 2013, he was able to raise some taxes for extreme high income earners, albeit not as high as they were in the Clinton years, which I believe was the point that people here made regarding Obama's "not that left" stance.
No, he's left on his tax policy and he's very outspoken about it. His stances vs. what he has been able to accomplish can definitely vary.
IMO, Obama is quite the neutered president...self-imposed neutering.
Perhaps his plans have been shit on, left and right, by the GOP?
He wanted to repeal the tax cuts for the super rich and give more tax breaks to the middle class and poor....didn't get that shit done until recently. It took him 5-6 years to get to a point where he can say, "Yeah, I pretty much delivered on that 2008 campaign promise."
Also, he wanted a genuine universal healthcare system (not necessarily a single payer). We saw how all of that worked out (again, the GOP "rescued" us from a universal healthcare solution). 😐
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, in the subsequent post.
You didn't. It was outdated. Obama has done some good stuff on taxes from 2012 - 2014.