Originally posted by BackFire
Who are these radicals and what are these radical ideas that they've implemented while governing?
You want me to go over all the idea's, like the 100-200 laws passed a day in California pushed through by Nancy Pelosi and the radicals in state side Sacramento?
Or how California has ousted all manufacturing jobs, which happened to be the biggest state for manufacturing for the last 30-40 years up until the last 5?
Originally posted by Robtard
Do some googling, Obama ranks [somewhat] more conservative than Kennedy when it comes to positions and actions, Kennedy who you claimed would be a Conservative today.
hysterical What?! hysterical Obama? The most Liberal president to ever take the office is...hysterical
All this tells me is that you, and the people you Google are so far left its unbelievable.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
hysterical What?! hysterical Obama? The most Liberal president to ever take the office is...hystericalAll this tells me is that you, and the people you Google are so far left its unbelievable.
Or don't research. No loss to me. But you really shouldn't get all your info from Fox News.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
You want me to go over all the idea's, like the 100-200 laws passed a day in California pushed through by Nancy Pelosi and the radicals in state side Sacramento?
Or you can just name one and explain why it's radical. Or even better would be something on the national stage that is the product of radical liberalism. Or just anything at all that isn't just regurgitated Fox News talking points about vague radicals doing vaguely radical things.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Or how California has ousted all manufacturing jobs, which happened to be the biggest state for manufacturing for the last 30-40 years up until the last 5?
Ousted how? By making companies pay taxes?
Originally posted by Robtard
Do some googling, Obama ranks [somewhat] more conservative than Kennedy when it comes to positions and actions, Kennedy who you claimed would be a Conservative today.
I did some googling. I also used my brain to make a different conclusion than you.
He's right on some issues and left on others. He cannot be cookie-cut as pure leftist or pure right.
He's right on military issues. Far right. More right than Bush. That's scary.
He's left on social issues. Very left.
He's left on Government spending and Government's role.
He's left on taxes.
He's left on environment.
He's super far right on "police-state" stuff. Worse than Bush.
So, overall, I do not see him as either left or right. He cannot be called a moderate because he's too left and too right on issues. Really, he's a politician with varied political beliefs. He is definitely not a moderate. A moderate would not be so far left and right on various issues. He could better be described as a political extremist that is trying too hard to appease the left and right.
he's left on taxes as in he wants to restore the clinton era rates, right? hardly a far left position, considering that tax rates are at the lowest they've been in a very long time. compared to pre-reagan rates his tax policies would be considered reasonably conservative. it is only in the current political context, where the country has shifted to the right somewhat considerably regarding taxes over the years, that his tax policies come across as leftist.
i'd agree he's a leftist in regard to social issues, though still not enough of a leftist for my liking.
i also agree that he's right wing in regard to the military and the police state... though i wouldn't necessarily say he is any 'worse' than bush in terms of his intent. i see it more as he has been building upon a lot of the precedents that bush first set.
edit: i disagree that he's not a 'moderate' because each of these issues you are listing have their own left/right spectrum as the country evolves. for instance... the country has generally been shifting to the left in regard to social issues for some time now. so what was a 'leftist' viewpoint decades ago might be conservative today. same deal as i explained with the taxes above. all in all, with each issue you listed, i'd say obama's stances are more or less aligned with the status quo. both the 'far left' and 'far right' stances you highlighted are well within the bounds of mainstream american political opinion imo.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I did some googling. I also used my brain to make a different conclusion than you.He's right on some issues and left on others. He cannot be cookie-cut as pure leftist or pure right.
He's right on military issues. Far right. More right than Bush. That's scary.
He's left on social issues. Very left.
He's left on Government spending and Government's role.
He's left on taxes.
He's left on environment.
He's super far right on "police-state" stuff. Worse than Bush.
So, overall, I do not see him as either left or right. He cannot be called a moderate because he's too left and too right on issues. Really, he's a politician with varied political beliefs. He is definitely not a moderate. A moderate would not be so far left and right on various issues. He could better be described as a political extremist that is trying too hard to appease the left and right.
My conclusion?
But 👆 looking up positions and comparing.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I did some googling. I also used my brain to make a different conclusion than you.He's right on some issues and left on others. He cannot be cookie-cut as pure leftist or pure right.
He's right on military issues. Far right. More right than Bush. That's scary.
He's left on social issues. Very left.
He's left on Government spending and Government's role.
He's left on taxes.
He's left on environment.
He's super far right on "police-state" stuff. Worse than Bush.
So, overall, I do not see him as either left or right. He cannot be called a moderate because he's too left and too right on issues. Really, he's a politician with varied political beliefs. He is definitely not a moderate. A moderate would not be so far left and right on various issues. He could better be described as a political extremist that is trying too hard to appease the left and right.
Worse is, he lets the country and polls lead him, he went back into Iraq kicking and screaming because of public opinion. He could have gone back in there month or years before or left a small contengency force, but no he just had to pull everyone out and look what happened.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Worse is, he lets the country and polls lead him, he went back into Iraq kicking and screaming because of public opinion. He could have gone back in there month or years before or left a small contengency force, but no he just had to pull everyone out and look what happened.
IIRC, already covered this in another thread. Maybe the ISIS one?
The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement
Originally posted by Robtard
Or don't research. No loss to me. But you really shouldn't get all your info from Fox News.
If I based what I know only on fox news, I would have a lot of very nasty things to say about Obama, but I have never said anything bad about the man. By the way, being the most liberal president is not a bad thing.
Originally posted by red g jacks
he's left on taxes as in he wants to restore the clinton era rates, right?
He wants to cut taxes on the poor and middle class and raise taxes on the rich: a leftist policy in America.
Information is a bit outdated, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_presidential_candidates,_2008#Tax_policy
But you can go to politicalfactcheck.com and go through all of his tax-related promises to see which ones fall on the political spectrum.
There should be no question that he holds leftist tax policies. Any politician that says he or she wants to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor is a leftist on their tax policies: the actual taxes collected compared to historical data is meaningless when talking about whether a tax policy is leftist or right: it is how those taxes are collected that determines where they sit on the political spectrum. I should not that I support a strong tax policy on the "rich." I prefer a flat tax or no income tax, however.
Originally posted by red g jacks
i also agree that he's right wing in regard to the military and the police state... though i wouldn't necessarily say he is any 'worse' than bush in terms of his intent. i see it more as he has been building upon a lot of the precedents that bush first set.
IMO, things like "intent" don't matter nearly as much as what actually happened. Obama has expanded Bush era military operations (while running on a platform that he would pull out of Iraq and close down Gitmo) and made the police state business much worse.
That's worse than Bush regardless of who intended to do what: what actually got done is what makes Obama worse.
Originally posted by red g jacks
edit: i disagree that he's not a 'moderate' because each of these issues you are listing have their own left/right spectrum as the country evolves. for instance... the country has generally been shifting to the left in regard to social issues for some time now. so what was a 'leftist' viewpoint decades ago might be conservative today. same deal as i explained with the taxes above. all in all, with each issue you listed, i'd say obama's stances are more or less aligned with the status quo. both the 'far left' and 'far right' stances you highlighted are well within the bounds of mainstream american political opinion imo.
He's not a moderate, overall, but he can be a moderate on some issues, for sure.
If he were averaged he would be left, for America, but I do not think comparisons like those are fair. If that same average was compared to other countries, he'd be considered right.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If I based what I know only on fox news, I would have a lot of very nasty things to say about Obama, but I have never said anything bad about the man. By the way, being the most liberal president is not a bad thing.
It wasn't a matter of being a "bad thing" concerning your "most liberal president ever" statement. It's a matter of it being incorrect.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, he, in fact, tried to negotiate leaving troops until the very end, but the Iraqi government wouldn't allow it.
I remember that stuff but I thought it was posturing on Bush's part. I didn't know he actually gave the orders to leave: I thought that was all Obama.
Looks like I need to educate myself. 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemonlink doesn't work for me.
He wants to cut taxes on the poor and middle class and raise taxes on the rich: a leftist policy in America.Information is a bit outdated, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_presidential_candidates,_2008#Tax_policy
But you can go to politicalfactcheck.com and go through all of his tax-related promises to see which ones fall on the political spectrum.
There should be no question that he holds leftist tax policies. Any politician that says he or she wants to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor is a leftist on their tax policies: the actual taxes collected compared to historical data is meaningless when talking about whether a tax policy is leftist or right: it is how those taxes are collected that determines where they sit on the political spectrum. I should not that I support a strong tax policy on the "rich." I prefer a flat tax or no income tax, however.we've always had a progressive tax rate so we've always been 'redistributing the wealth.' in fact we do a lot less redistributing of wealth today than we did historically in the post war era.
He's not a moderate, overall, but he can be a moderate on some issues, for sure.i see him as a moderate. he is left leaning yea but ultimately he is way more willing to compromise than most leftists want him to.If he were averaged he would be left, for America, but I do not think comparisons like those are fair. If that same average was compared to other countries, he'd be considered right.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Really?And this whole time, for years, I've been giving Obama credit for that.
🙁
😂
Don't be fooled bud.
Obama pulled the troops, out, he ran his whole campaign on it.
Of coarse people will say thats not Obama saying this and its an impostor.