Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not really. The Clone is below Vader in raw power and sabers, the only Vader he being comparable to is TFUII Vader, by his own admission I might add. And Kota isn't Obi-Wan level. The fact of the matter is, EVERYONE, was blown way out of proportion for TFU. Finally, last I checked that tower was a major part of the facility, so I don't see your point.
The clone is far below only in sabers, and he only stated that he could stalemate a Vader who was holding back in that regard, nothing more. It has no relevance with power.
No, not everyone was blown out of proportion, and Kota is in Obi Wan's class. The latter has done most of his feats with moderate effort. Kota has probably better feats, but they required high effort.
That tower was not that huge, and destroying a facility or space station is a showing on Anakin/Vader's class. Kota was stomped by Vader, so...
My point is that Starkiller is top tier, and even if he just disintegrated 50 mt of that ship, his feat still exceeds those of Darth Plagueis.
Originally posted by ares834
Hey NewFuy and Nargorath, quit being noobs. We can't use TFU feats as evidence despite them being every bit as valid and canon as those in TOR.
I don't think the point was about the validity of TFU feats. It was about the validity of those feats from the TFU trailers, and that should be correct, considering that they do contradict the storyline, whereas the events in the TOR's trailers clearly take place before the game and are actually referenced (both in-game and in the Deceived novel).
Originally posted by Nargaroth
The clone is far below only in sabers, and he only stated that he could stalemate a Vader who was holding back in that regard, nothing more. It has no relevance with power.
No, not everyone was blown out of proportion, and Kota is in Obi Wan's class. The latter has done most of his feats with moderate effort. Kota has probably better feats, but they required high effort.
That tower was not that huge, and destroying a facility or space station is a showing on Anakin/Vader's class. Kota was stomped by Vader, so...
My point is that Starkiller is top tier, and even if he just disintegrated 50 mt of that ship, his feat still exceeds those of Darth Plagueis.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Contrary to what you said, not everything is unquestionably canon. The trailers are sufficiently contradicted in the story material to be clearly non-canonical.
Not really.
Starkiller had multiple missions, we pick up with TFU when he's been allowed to kill Jedi, not sent to go get a rogue moff.
Inb4 "but he didnt believe it was possible on Raxus" - There's ways around that that are plainly obvious.
As for Galen's escape in TFU 2, Vader clearly states that he's not the first clone to break out of the Kaminoan center, that was likely one of the other failed attempts.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader outclasses the clone in every way. Seriously.
No, he doesn't. Not in power, where he is clearly outclassed. When Vader can perform the above mentioned feat, (see the quote I posted on page 3) you can call him equal to the Starkiller clone.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Did you just say the guy's who only real feat is losing is comparable to Obi-Wan?
It seems that you're confusing Force power with lightsaber skill. They're not the same thing, and of course Kota is a mediocre duellist compared to Obi-Wan. For power, Kota has also deflected Lightning with the Force (a challenge for even the greatest Jedi Masters as per The Ultimate Visual Guide).
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And Obi-Wan never has been. Not even when Vader was a few years from his peak. Kota's outclassed in every way.
So what? The only reason why Kenobi wasn't wrecked with the Force is that Vader is a brute Juggernaut who prefers to solve problems with a lightsaber, which he admitted in the Book of the Sith.
A younger Kenobi was stomped by Maul and Dooku. Do you want to put them above Vader because of that? They're clearly not.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
😆
What does Plagueis have that puts him above Starkiller in terms of TK? Right, nothing. If he is superior, provide feats. I already have. Laughing won't help your case.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
This isn't even about TOR, in my case, anyway. It's about the Starkiller wank and the Obi-Wan lowballing.
There is no Starkiller wank. His feats are right there and are crystal clear for anyone willig to acknowledge them. You're either wanking Vader or severely underestimating Starkiller. And Kota is a powerful Jedi, so I don't get how Obi-Wan is getting lowballed.
Originally posted by Selenial
Not really.Starkiller had multiple missions, we pick up with TFU when he's been allowed to kill Jedi, not sent to go get a rogue moff.
Inb4 "but he didnt believe it was possible on Raxus" - There's ways around that that are plainly obvious.
As for Galen's escape in TFU 2, Vader clearly states that he's not the first clone to break out of the Kaminoan center, that was likely one of the other failed attempts.
Yes, really. Please explain to me the plainly obvious ways to get around Marek stating its impossible to merely turn a ISD thats in freefall if he'd previously ripped one right out of the damn sky. It's a trailer, it is not canon. You might as well argue the box art is canon next, lol. It's a piece of promotional advertising, not anything actually canon.
Failed attempts, yes. They were all completely insane and unable to be the clone from the trailer. And I don't recall Vader saying others had successfully escaped and I highly doubt any of them went to the exact same arena as is in the game and also happened to fight the Gorog like in the game, which is in another trailer.
Originally posted by Selenial
😂 😂 😂 😆 😆 😆Ahahhaa.... wut?
Oh you're [B]serious?
..... HahhaahhaahahahaDat fanboy. Very strong. Much wow. [/B]
He's right though.
Team stomps rather viciously.
Originally posted by Nargaroth
Nargaroth I skimmed your Vader respect thread early this morning. It was really good, though I've not yet read it thoroughly. Also, I'll get back to your reply to me on comic vine some time later. TBH, though, I'd rather you make a Vader vs Orbalisk Bane, as comic vine is very strict about going off-topic. Or if you can or want, you can PM me. I'm just curious as to why you put Orbalisk Bane solidly above Vader. As for your comment about Plagueis being solidly above Vader, I disagree. Plagueis force knowledge and speed are above Vader's, but as far as their power output, well, I think Plagueis is overrated and some of his feats are taken out of context (for example, he's never scorched anyone to ash with lightning).
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Team stomps rather viciously.Nargaroth I skimmed your Vader respect thread early this morning. It was really good, though I've not yet read it thoroughly. Also, I'll get back to your reply to me on comic vine some time later. TBH, though, I'd rather you make a Vader vs Orbalisk Bane, as comic vine is very strict about going off-topic. Or if you can or want, you can PM me. I'm just curious as to why you put Orbalisk Bane solidly above Vader. As for your comment about Plagueis being solidly above Vader, I disagree. Plagueis force knowledge and speed are above Vader's, but as far as their power output, well, I think Plagueis is overrated and some of his feats are taken out of context (for example, he never scorched anyone to ash with lightning).
So you're Dominis. Didn't know you were a member here.
I suggest you PM me on CV for the other question if you wish to know what I think, or create a thread yourself on that site. This is not the right place.
Originally posted by Nargaroth
So you're Dominis. Didn't know you were a member here.I suggest you PM me on CV for the other question if you wish to know what I think, or create a thread yourself on that site. This is not the right place.
Yes, that's me. I knew who you were because you referenced your Fay respect thread on here.
I'll PM you there later. I know this isn't the right place. I just brought it up in this thread since you're currently posting here and no one cares about going off-topic here, but I wasn't trying to start a debate with you on the matter here; it was just easy to get your attention and I don't too much log in on comic vine while on my phone.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I think Plagueis is overrated and some of his feats are taken out of context (for example, he's never scorched anyone to ash with lightning).
I wouldn't really use this as a concrete establishment of his power (or lack there of.) Unless of course you believe Darth Nyriss to be stronger than Plagueis. 😕
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yes, that's me. I knew who you were because you referenced your Fay respect thread on here.I'll PM you there later. I know this isn't the right place. I just brought it up in this thread since you're currently posting here and no one cares about going off-topic here, but I wasn't trying to start a debate with you on the matter here; it was just easy to get your attention and I don't too much log in on comic vine while on my phone.
I see. Oh, I have just created that thread if you're interested. And of course it's better not to debate her, because we're already OT.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I wouldn't really use this as a concrete establishment of his power (or lack there of.) Unless of course you believe Darth Nyriss to be stronger than Plagueis. 😕
Of course not. Plaqueis is immensely powerful, and he's displayed his raw power in other areas. I just believe he's a bit overrated and that some of his feats are taken out of context. I didn't use that example as a way of lowballing him (he is one of my favorite characters, after all); I used it because many use that particular feat as one of his best displays of raw power, but it's really not, and it's usually taken out of context. The particular feat doesn't make him weaker just because it's usually taken out of context, IMO, it's just not one of his best feats, and he wasn't exactly using his maximum output in that single attack.
Originally posted by Nargaroth
I see. Oh, I have just created that thread if you're interested. And of course it's better not to debate her, because we're already OT.
Which thread, the one of Master Fay?
TBH, I actually just wanted a brief analysis from you concerning Bane/Plagueis vs Vader, as I could probably learn from you. If, however, I don't agree with it, it may lead to a debate, but that's not my intention.
Edit: never mind. You meant here, not her.
I'll take a look at it later. Don't know how fast I'll be with the replies, BTW, so if I take long, don't take it as I forgot and that I just wasted your time.
Originally posted by Nargaroth
No, he doesn't. Not in power, where he is clearly outclassed. When Vader can perform the above mentioned feat, (see the quote I posted on page 3) you can call him equal to the Starkiller clone.
It seems that you're confusing Force power with lightsaber skill. They're not the same thing, and of course Kota is a mediocre duellist compared to Obi-Wan. For power, Kota has also deflected Lightning with the Force (a challenge for even the greatest Jedi Masters as per The Ultimate Visual Guide).
So what? The only reason why Kenobi wasn't wrecked with the Force is that Vader is a brute Juggernaut who prefers to solve problems with a lightsaber, which he admitted in the Book of the Sith.
A younger Kenobi was stomped by Maul and Dooku. Do you want to put them above Vader because of that? They're clearly not.
What does Plagueis have that puts him above Starkiller in terms of TK? Right, nothing. If he is superior, provide feats. I already have. Laughing won't help your case.
There is no Starkiller wank. His feats are right there and are crystal clear for anyone willig to acknowledge them. You're either wanking Vader or severely underestimating Starkiller. And Kota is a powerful Jedi, so I don't get how Obi-Wan is getting lowballed.