Originally posted by riv6672
Again, we can say all non metas are basically useless on super teams, though.
No, we can't at all. It depends on what they bring. For example, your Batman jab falls flat. He's very useful. More than many metas, in fact. You just have to think of something other than a major team-wide brawl for it to be obvious. The Dr. Midnight hate earlier is another prime example of this kind of tunnel vision.
how many times has there been an all out JLA vs villain brawl and Batman is just standing in the chaos taking strategic point for the rest of the team? Maximizing their powers' potential by being the overall strategist and field commander, telling them where to go and all that. Batman being useless is far from the truth hater.
Originally posted by Digi
No, we can't at all. It depends on what they bring. For example, your Batman jab falls flat. He's very useful. More than many metas, in fact. You just have to think of something other than a major team-wide brawl for it to be obvious. The Dr. Midnight hate earlier is another prime example of this kind of tunnel vision.
Well, considering i was joking, and personally am a fan of character over raw power, the human in superhuman if you will, i guess i should add more smilies to my posts...🙂 😉 😄
Which is why i said it COULD be said.
I dont agree with that sentiment, personally. One of the worst things i've seen from fans over the years is basing their like of a character by how many planets, large ones mind you, not puny earth sized, they can take a whiz on and destroy.
To me a guy with a bow and arrow fighting huge odds and quipping is way more interesting...
Re: Re: Useless team member cut
Originally posted by basilisk
Fantastic Four - has to be Ben or Johnny, and if I have to pick one I'll go with Ben.Reed has the brains & tech and considering the things he's done over the years he can do more with prep against more powerful enemies than anyone else on the team. With a little prep he could solo the rest of the team. Sue has the most power and with no prep could solo the rest of the team, and the whole PMS aspect of her modern personality makes her a dangerous opponent. Johnny's flame and flight come in handy too and he has the nova blast, potentially the team's most devastating single attack. As for Thing... he has strength. No speed, no flight, no particular brains, no other powers.
If they need a building held up? Sue can do it with force fields.
Need to smash down a wall? Sue can probably do something with ff or Johnny can blast it.
Need to fight a brick? If he's Thing level or lower Sue can probably beat him with ff. If he's more powerful than Thing she probably still has a better chance with her power levels these days.JLA - Aquaman. The guy can just swim fast. OK just kidding, Black Canary or Green Arrow. They are both kind of redundant and underpowered, but no denying the archers are useful sometimes, just ask Hawkeye.
JSA - that patriot/america guy, or whoever that guy with the whip was. Don't remember him or his name, can't even be bothered googling him. He has no right to be on that team.
Defenders - Nighthawk. I once made a thread about who can Nighthawk actually defeat and I think the conclusive answer was nobody. I don't think he ever won an actual fight. I think he hit Spider-Man across the room once which was probably the pinnacle of his career.
I will have to think about some of the others.
Agreed Thing's the weakest member of the team.
But Sue can't keep her shield up all the time.. Without Ben there to take point and play the tank, there's plenty of times where the team would have been screwed..
Johnny's basically the dps guy, while Ben's the tank. Both guys have their uses, but Johnny's a little more niche, while having a meat shield is useful almost all the time..
Originally posted by Digi
No, we can't at all. It depends on what they bring. For example, your Batman jab falls flat. He's very useful. More than many metas, in fact. You just have to think of something other than a major team-wide brawl for it to be obvious. The Dr. Midnight hate earlier is another prime example of this kind of tunnel vision.
Yeah, and when it comes to team comics, it's usually the brawn that ends up being the most useless guy in the room.
Hell, Superman and Captain Marvel are the last guys you'd call useless, yet when Jurgens and Giffen was writing, they played meat shield while guys like Batman, Booster, Beetle, and even Ice were the ones who saved the day (Ice beat Starbreaker!)
Originally posted by relentless1
how many times has there been an all out JLA vs villain brawl and Batman is just standing in the chaos taking strategic point for the rest of the team? Maximizing their powers' potential by being the overall strategist and field commander, telling them where to go and all that. Batman being useless is far from the truth hater.
Batman is pretty damn useless actually. The JL doesn't need Batman to command anything. Batman is there just to be there and forcing PIS?CIS into the scenario to make him worth something.
Nothing Bruce can come up with that Wonder Woman can't come up with. What's even worse is that Diana is a warrior breed to do combat. Especially in the NDCU, where she learned combat from the God Of War himself.
So tell me, what does Batman have strategic wise against the God Of War himself, or her pupil?
Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, and when it comes to team comics, it's usually the brawn that ends up being the most useless guy in the room.Hell, Superman and Captain Marvel are the last guys you'd call useless, yet when Jurgens and Giffen was writing, they played meat shield while guys like Batman, Booster, Beetle, and even Ice were the ones who saved the day (Ice beat Starbreaker!)
That's PIS/CIS. Especially when it concerns Marvel. The guy has the wisdom of Solomon, yet a mere human can out perform him?
Originally posted by SquallXI agree that often the element of PIS/CIS is there with guys like Batman in order to have them survive fights that even the big guns struggle in.
Batman is pretty damn useless actually. The JL doesn't need Batman to command anything. Batman is there just to be there and forcing PIS?CIS into the scenario to make him worth something.Nothing Bruce can come up with that Wonder Woman can't come up with. What's even worse is that Diana is a warrior breed to do combat. Especially in the NDCU, where she learned combat from the God Of War himself.
So tell me, what does Batman have strategic wise against the God Of War himself, or her pupil?
But as far as the command & strategy aspects go, Batman brings more to it than just combat and tactics - it's often his deductive reasoning and detective skills that allow him to pick up on critical clues and advantages that the others miss. And what does it matter if WW is trained by the God of War? Batman is just overall portrayed as a smarter character - there's no reason why his natural aptitude for that side of things is not at least as good as hers or better. You could send most people to the best mathematics schools in the world for years and they wouldn't turn out to be a mathematician comparable to say Srinivasa Ramanujan with his minimal training. Likewise for people like Edison, Faraday & many others. Bats is just supposed to be one of those exceptional individuals.