Originally posted by Nephthys
They could have done a fight and had Maul run away. Or gain the upper hand through indirect means.Hell, what if they're fighting then Anakin and Obi-Wan burst in and they call a temporary truce to take out the Jedi, Maul vs Kenobi + Anakin vs Dooku. That would have been badass.
That would have been so cool, I would have hated them for life for not making the episodes.
But since the comic was pretty s*** I'm not too bothered they didn't make it.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Even Dooku who's not really prone to such talk tells Yoda.
"I've become more powerful than any Jedi, even you."
Even Dooku ? Dooku is selfish and proud man. That is why he told that to Yoda.
That's exactly proves my point, someone who is a proud man like Dooku was not saying that '' Wtf ?! I am stronger than you''
They are at the same level at worst, if Maul is not stupid enough to ask that of course.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Even Dooku ? Dooku is selfish and proud man. That is why he told that to Yoda.That's exactly proves my point, someone proud man like Dooku is not saying that '' Wtf ?! I am stronger than you''
They are at the same level at worst, if Maul is not stupid enough to ask that of course.
No...Dooku said he's more powerful than Yoda. That should be taken with as much weight as Maul saying Dooku serve me.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Even Dooku ? Dooku is selfish and proud man. That is why he told that to Yoda.That's exactly proves my point, someone who is a proud man like Dooku was not saying that '' Wtf ?! I am stronger than you''
They are at the same level at worst, if Maul is not stupid enough to ask that of course.
Your really clinging to straws here.
Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Darth Power should be commended for his patience, and Marco for his diligence.Dooku>Maul in both Sabers and the force. Wiggle all you want, but that won't change it. The discussion was interesting though.
Maul is physically much stronger than Dooku and that's all he need to kick his old wimpy ass. (see: Anakin and Savage Opress)
Since there is no vast difference in speed (unlike with Darth Vader) Dooku can't use his other advantages against Maul.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Maul is physically much stronger than Dooku and that's all he need to kick his old wimpy ass. (see: Anakin and Savage Opress)
He's fended off Anakin multiple times, and completely embarrassed Opress in their 1 v 1 training sessions.
Not that it matters because Maul is not as strong as either of those 2.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Since there is no vast difference in speed (unlike with Darth Vader) Dooku can't use his other advantages against Maul.
Dooku is the more skilled swordsman (master of ultimate fencing style), the more skilled combatant (look at his combined attacks fencing and physical and tk together), has better TK (look what he does to Obi-Wan and Ventress) and he is faster- (Maul is no faster than Obi-Wan in their fights, whilst Dooku is faster than Obi-Wan as confirmed by Rise and Fall of Darth Vader, and Dooku dances around Opress and Ventress).
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
In Sabers meaning in a Saber fight without use of TK.That happens in TCW Season 6. Dooku owns Kenobi a couple of times through physical attacks (so yeah technically not saber slashes).
Keep in mind that while Kenobi was able to fight both Maul and Opress, Maul himself could fight Windu and Secura, which is both very impressive and comparable to how Dooku could fight Anakin and Kenobi.
That indicates that saber prowess of these characters is not that different. Force wise, however, Maul was able to Force handle Kenobi on more than one occasion. Cos of that I can't really see how Dooku is is firmly superior to Maul in anything. I am still willing to give Dooku slight advantage because he can consistently pull out things, while Maul needs to get proper angry before doing anything truly impressive.
Originally posted by Arhael
That's not really owning, more like gaining distance.Keep in mind that while Kenobi was able to fight both Maul and Opress, Maul himself could fight Windu and Secura, which is both very impressive and comparable to how Dooku could fight Anakin and Kenobi.
That indicates that saber prowess of these characters is not that different. Force wise, however, Maul was able to Force handle Kenobi on more than one occasion. Cos of that I can't really see how Dooku is is firmly superior to Maul in anything. I am still willing to give Dooku slight advantage because he can consistently pull out things, while Maul needs to get proper angry before doing anything truly impressive.
I think the difference is that Dooku was beating Kenobi while fighting off Skywalker. Kind of like how Kenobi was beating Opress while fighting off Maul.
Maul hasn't really defeated Kenobi using Tk. He's just pushed/blasted him away. And your right that it may have been a rage enhanced blast as well. That's why I see Dooku's Tk above Maul's. Also like you said Dooku pulls out that stuff more often and more randomly which adds to his overall combat prowess.
That's why in an all out situation (tk and sabers and physical hits- everything) I see Dooku as solidly above both Maul and Kenobi. And even without TK I'd at least give Dooku the edge.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I think the difference is that Dooku was beating Kenobi while fighting off Skywalker. Kind of like how Kenobi was beating Opress while fighting off Maul.Maul hasn't really defeated Kenobi using Tk. He's just pushed/blasted him away. And your right that it may have been a rage enhanced blast as well. That's why I see Dooku's Tk above Maul's. Also like you said Dooku pulls out that stuff more often and more randomly which adds to his overall combat prowess.
That's why in an all out situation (tk and sabers and physical hits- everything) I see Dooku as solidly above both Maul and Kenobi. And even without TK I'd at least give Dooku the edge.
Bottom line is that Dooku with half attention on Anakin can't possibly be more effective combatant than both Maul and Opress fully focused on Kenobi. It's all circumstantial. Maul proved himself in the fight against Windu and Secura that inability to defeat Kenobi with help of Opress is more to do with Kenobi's defensive capabilities rather than Maul's inferior skill.
Yes, you are right that Dooku is more consistent with his offensive Force capabilities, that's his advantage. That doesn't prove he would defeat Maul cos of that.
Windu is above both Maul and Dooku, yet, he did not Force handle Maul despite help from Secura. He doesn't seem have great skill in offensive Force use but it didn't stop him from defeating Sidious.
Originally posted by ArhaelBottom line is that Dooku with half attention on Anakin can't possibly be more effective combatant than both Maul and Opress fully focused on Kenobi.
Well that's not necessarily true. If Dooku is more skilled and faster than either Maul or Opress then he could be more capable of getting in hits on Kenobi than both of them. But I see your point.
Originally posted by Arhael
It's all circumstantial. Maul proved himself in the fight against Windu and Secura that inability to defeat Kenobi with help of Opress is more to do with Kenobi's defensive capabilities rather than Maul's inferior skill.
Agree it's all circumstantial. What helps Maul's case is that Kenobi never actually put him down. What doesn't help Maul's case is that he's never taken Kenobi out, even with help.
But looking at Grievous owning Kenobi in the unfinished Kyber Crystal arc, it seems as if Kenobi brings his A - Game to the table when fighting Maul, but he doesn't fight to that level in the majority of his fights.
Originally posted by Arhael
Yes, you are right that Dooku is more consistent with his offensive Force capabilities, that's his advantage. That doesn't prove he would defeat Maul cos of that.
Windu is above both Maul and Dooku, yet, he did not Force handle Maul despite help from Secura. He doesn't seem have great skill in offensive Force use but it didn't stop him from defeating Sidious.
I don't believe Windu is above Dooku just because he beat Sidious the one time. Like you said it's all circumstantial. Had Sidious not had to blitz 3 other Jedi first and begun the fight with his superior force powers like he did against the Maul Brothers, it would have been a very different fight.
Also had the Maul vs Windu and Secura fight gone on, then maybe Windu would have overpowered Maul with TK at some point in the fight. Like you said, Dooku doesn't TK Kenobi right away.
Dooku consistently beats the likes of Ventress and Kenobi. In fact he'd most likely beat them both together looking at his record of fights against them. Pretty sure that's above Maul. But looking at Maul's feats of Stomping Opress in seconds, shoving a Jedi craft, force choking Kenobi before he could even engage him and engaging Windu/Secura together, it's obvious Maul would make Dooku work hard for the win.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He's fended off Anakin multiple times, and completely embarrassed Opress in their 1 v 1 training sessions.Not that it matters because Maul is not as strong as either of those 2.
Dooku is the more skilled swordsman (master of ultimate fencing style), the more skilled combatant (look at his combined attacks fencing and physical and tk together), has better TK (look what he does to Obi-Wan and Ventress) and he is faster- (Maul is no faster than Obi-Wan in their fights, whilst Dooku is faster than Obi-Wan as confirmed by Rise and Fall of Darth Vader, and Dooku dances around Opress and Ventress).
- That's debatable. Anakin and Maul have same level strength tier, since Savage already ragdolled Anakin twice, while Savage never ragdolled Maul (in fact humiliated via martial art) Maul doesn't use djem-so like Anakin but he is using martial arts in lightsaber combat, his physical advantage is still valid. And since he is using juyo, he has kinetic power as well.
- Dooku may better duelist due to makashi, their TK level are close, and their speed is close. Maul is faster than Obi-Wan as well, just because Obi-Wan managed to deflect attacks of Maul that doesn't mean they are at the same speed, Anakin was faster than Obi-Wan but still they fought equally. TCW Maul is even faster than his TPM version, TCW Maul speedblitzed magnaguards which is never done by Obi-Wan, TCW Maul also tagged Darth Sidious I doubt Obi-Wan could do that. And TCW Maul also moved faster than Grievous can react (SoD 02) and subdued him with ease. Fought against Mace Windu (who is at least fast as Dooku and Fisto) and kicked Aayla Secura at the same time, I doubt Obi-Wan could do that.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Had Sidious not had to blitz 3 other Jedi
Btw, Sidious didn't blitzed Kit Fisto, I can show you the book part where says Kit Fisto tagged Sidious for a while in that battle if you want.
Kit is faster than most of jedi council members (probably faster than Obi-Wan as well)
Originally posted by Marco1907
- That's debatable. Anakin and Maul have same level strength tier, since Savage already ragdolled Anakin twice, while Savage never ragdolled Maul (in fact humiliated via martial art) Maul doesn't use djem-so like Anakin but he is using martial arts in lightsaber combat, his physical advantage is still valid. And since he is using juyo, he has kinetic power as well.
Yeah but Dooku has fended off Anakin in Sabers plenty of times. So he can fend off Maul too.
Originally posted by Marco1907
-- Dooku may better duelist due to makashi, their TK level are close, and their speed is close.
Yeah but if Dooku's only a little superior in each of those categories, it adds up and makes him noticeably superior all out.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Maul is faster than Obi-Wan as well, just because Obi-Wan managed to deflect attacks of Maul that doesn't mean they are at the same speed,
Don't see how. Kenobi blocked and/or dodged every one of Maul's attacks in 2 relatively lengthy duels.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Btw, Sidious didn't blitzed Kit Fisto, I can show you the book part where says Kit Fisto tagged Sidious for a while in that battle if you want.Kit is faster than most of jedi council members (probably faster than Obi-Wan as well)
Well even in the movie, Fisto did trade a few blows with Sidious.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why do words only carry weight when they support you, but not when everyone in mythos, and outside including the author, say Maul is below Dooku?
Because Maul is his favorite character. I was there once, I used to think Exar Kun was the second strongest Sith after Sidious. He will learn.
Eventually.