Darth Vader vs. Count Dooku

Originally posted by Nephthys
As for the fight, I say Vaders superior TK is the deciding factor here.

Vader never defeated someone on Dooku's calibre with TK. Only featless jedi he defeated. Defeating Dooku or TCW Maul via TK is not going to happen by Vader. It is up to lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Trocity
You mean the comic they released like a year or two after TPM because people wanted to see how a Vader vs Maul fight would go down, so they obviously made it even to make them both look good, when feats since then clearly show that Vader can kick Maul's ass?

Wtf ? So are we going to make excuses for the battles ? Or are we going to use it as it happened ?

TPM Maul kicked ANH Vader's ass because, you know Vader is crippled half droid half man (said by lucas) and no where near fast as Maul. That is why Maul is superior in combat. They matches in strength and skill. But speed is the determined factor since Vader lacks too much.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku and peak!Vader are both above Maul. They eclipse him in the Force and Dooku at least eclipses him in lightsabers.

Vader is too slow. He can't defeat Dooku or Maul because of that.

Originally posted by Sinious
Didnt Vader die there cause of his hand?

👆

Originally posted by Marco1907
Alright, some people said that I am Dooku hater, but somehow my vote goes to Dooku on this one.

- Vader is officially weak to force lightning.

Taken from ; Star Wars Comics UK Magazine 04

- Vader is too slow for Dooku.

These two point makes me think that Dooku has major advantage. Vader has strength and durability advantage but not that important as his speed and force lightning disadvantages.

Dooku 7 of 10.

Vader is not weak against lightning at all. Your so called "evidence doesn't prove your point. Stating that he is susceptible to LONG bursts of Lightning is a totally unnecessary statement. NO ONE is immune to Ligtning, so saying that Vader is susceptible to it means nothing.

Your source not only doesn't prove anything but it's also an opinion on how a fight between Maul and Vader would go. It also states that Vader is an acrobatic duellist, which you evidently overlooked.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Vader is too slow for this. Vader already had troubles against average jedi masters, and they were no where near fast as Dooku. There is too much speed difference between Dooku and post-suit Vader. If Dooku plays smart, he should win the majority.

Vader has formed a shield out of his blade, deflected many blaster bolts at point blank range, outclassed Aurra Sing (who was fastand agile enough to dodge several blaster bolts from Droidekas) in speed, moved his blade faster than thought, speedblitzed Jedi Knights, dodged Jedi Masters' attacks, moved his blade fast enough to create a blue circle, etc. He is on Obi-Wan's level in speed and the latter was never defeated by Dooku via speed.

Yes, he had trouble against Jedi masters when he was outnumbered, still not used to his suit, and decades before his prime. How shameful on Vader's part to have problems in that circumstance.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Yeah right, I think that's why he died in 10 second with Sidious's lightning, while Luke take the same lightning for 1 minute and survived.

Vader is more machine than man, and he doesn't have any resistance to force lightning. And also slow in comparision with Dooku and Maul.

He tanked the full power of Sidious' Lightning, while already injured. Luke took 1 minute of torture level Lightning. Yeah, great comparison.

The fact that Vader is more machine than man is a statement that holds no value and proves nothing but your preconceived misconception that he MUST be especially weak to Lightning. Facts prove otherwise, and your source doen't contradict them.

Starkiller's Lightning could vaporize stormtroopers, yet Vader tanked it at the beginning of the novel.

Later in the novel he also tanked a highly concentrated burst of Lightning in the side of his armor and all it did was distract him for a moment.

Stop pretending to know what you're talking about when it' clearly not the case.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Clone of TPM Maul already kicked ANH Vader's ass.

TCW Maul >= Dooku > RotJ Vader > TPM Maul > ANH Vader

The clone didn't kick Vader's ass. It was a very close fight for the most part, and Vader both vastly improved in skill and became more powerful after that. And it wasn't a Force fight, but a duel, so I don't see how you put TCW Maul above ROTJ Vader when the former only improved in power after TPM, and Vader is clearly at least noticeably more powerful by feats.

Oh, I almost forgot. The source you posted also states that Maul gives his best in a duel when he wields a double-bladed lightsaber. And that's exactly what he did for most of that fight. Which means that TCW Maul would not have done as well as TPM Maul against Vader.

Vader takes it with difficulty

On that thread I would say: Dooku > Vader.

In this situation I'm basing more of Lucas' ow statements then on EU. Lucas himself stated, that PT Era is "Jedi Prime Era" and "Golden Age of Jedi".
And that Vader is just crippled half-droid half-man.

So in my opinion, most of PT trylogy duelists are superior to Vader: Maul, Windu, Dooku, Sidious, Yoda, Anakin, Obi-Wan.

Vader's only hope is his command of the Force, but he has never shown, that he's able to overcome top-level enemies with his TK for example.

It's over.

This thread is probably quite useful http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=651022

Not feeling that as a legit vaporization. Looks more like laziness and crappy effects.

I'd say Dooku takes this even though Vader is more powerful on paper.

Vader is physically stronger, more durable, more powerful in the force, has dar superior TK, and his Djem so is perfect to wear Tyranus down. He takes his with difficulty of course, but assuming he starts tk use his forfe abilities its over for Dooku

Originally posted by McP
On that thread I would say: Dooku > Vader.

In this situation I'm basing more of Lucas' ow statements then on EU. Lucas himself stated, that PT Era is "Jedi Prime Era" and "Golden Age of Jedi".
And that Vader is just crippled half-droid half-man.

So in my opinion, most of PT trylogy duelists are superior to Vader: Maul, Windu, Dooku, Sidious, Yoda, Anakin, Obi-Wan.
.

Finally ! I have waited for this comment.

%100 Agreed.

This is the part where Lucas says Vader is half droid half man and slower than prime jedi.

YouTube video

@carthage

Vader never defeated someone at Dooku's level via TK, only featless & fodder jedi. Unless you show me that Vader defeating someone who has very good TK level, this is up to lightsaber combat.

And I agree Vader much stronger and durable, but this is irrelevant since Vader is too slow to keep up with Dooku. Anakin was much faster than Vader, that is why he managed to beat him ; speed + strength combination.

Originally posted by McP
On that thread I would say: Dooku > Vader.

In this situation I'm basing more of Lucas' ow statements then on EU. Lucas himself stated, that PT Era is "Jedi Prime Era" and "Golden Age of Jedi".
And that Vader is just crippled half-droid half-man.

So in my opinion, most of PT trylogy duelists are superior to Vader: Maul, Windu, Dooku, Sidious, Yoda, Anakin, Obi-Wan.

Vader's only hope is his command of the Force, but he has never shown, that he's able to overcome top-level enemies with his TK for example.

In my opinion that statement was about Anakin's strenght/potential in the Force.

Which is directly related to how strong you are with a lightsaber, but even if it wasn't Vader is still Vader, Obi-Wan is still Obi-Wan, Sidious is still Sidious, and none would suddenly forget their lightsaber styles just because Lucas made a comment about choreography.

I doubt it. Anyway, as a duelist, I believie that Count Dooku is much better then 80% of Sidious.

Anyway, Vader had to change his style because of his limitations, and could never be as good as he was before Mustafar.
On the other hand, Vader was superior Force user to Anakin. Anakin was more powerful, but Vader was much more skilled. However, Vader has never shown, that he's able to beat strongest enemies with his Force powers. He was losing to Maul, he had hard time with Dark Woman. Even TESB Luke was able to hit his armor. He could become stronger after TESB, and he could be much more powerful Force user on a paper. But I don't see him winning against masters like Dooku or Windu. Maul also was a superior swordmaster to him.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I lol'd @ Outdated Commentary > showings, did you know Lucas also calls Vader 80% Sidious, the most overused line in arguments everywhere. Count Dooku isn't even close to that.

And do you know that Lucas said Maul, Dooku and Vader, all they are at the same level ?

Means that %80 indicates to Maul and Dooku as well.

Originally posted by McP
Maul also was a superior swordmaster to him.

No, he was not.

Originally posted by McP
I doubt it. Anyway, as a duelist, I believie that Count Dooku is much better then 80% of Sidious.

Anyway, Vader had to change his style because of his limitations, and could never be as good as he was before Mustafar.

On the other hand, Vader was superior Force user to Anakin. Anakin was more powerful, but Vader was much more skilled.

However, Vader has never shown, that he's able to beat strongest enemies with his Force powers.

He was losing to Maul, he had hard time with Dark Woman. Even TESB Luke was able to hit his armor.

He could become stronger after TESB, and he could be much more powerful Force user on a paper. But I don't see him winning against masters like Dooku or Windu. Maul also was a superior swordmaster to him.

I have noticed another strength feat for Maul ;

Maul lifts Obi-Wan with one hand only.

Now I am sure that ; Savage >= Maul > Anakin >= Obi-Wan