Is it hypocritical to not believe in God...

Originally posted by Digi
So you're saying that every atheist needs to leave the country or...what? Say they're hypocrites?

nope.

You realize the absurdity of that statement, yes?

yup.

It's just oversimplifying everything

it IS. And yet we've generated some marvelously complex answers. I realize our paths dont cross often but, i think most people realize i just like posting things to stir up conversation, and often play devil's advocate.
I think this forum deserves more stimulating conversation than multiple hateful islam centric threads.

Originally posted by riv6672

I think this forum deserves more stimulating conversation than multiple hateful islam centric threads.

Word to the wise, Digi can become remarkably touchy when "Hypocrisy" or any variation of that word is used in a post.

Regarding the Islam centric threads, though, if you refer to the poster named eninn, I have to say that there's nothing particularly hateful about what he posts.
Quite the opposite. If anything, the people that RESPOND to him are hateful, but he himself is not.

Try addressing him as respectfully as you would a friend.
You might be amazed at how cordial he can be when given simple courtesy.

Originally posted by riv6672
...yet still spend money? In the US at least.
That whole "in god we trust" thing.
Is it a matter of people not caring enough about their non belief? A convenient overlooking of something that'd make life impossible to live in the US?
What's everyone's take on this?

riv, do you really want to open that can of worms, and talk about the biblical god, hypocrisy and atheism in the same breath?

One can pick relatively any point in the bible and show the hypocrisy of this 'god.'

Anywhere.

When he met with Abraham outside his tent, and told him that Abraham's geriatric wife would bear a son the following spring. Gen 18:9-10; he had, at that time, just sent off two of his underlings to Sodom, to tell Lot of their plans to blow it off the map. There would have been children, babies and some good honest people dwelling in that city.

Wasn't one of the commandments: 'Thou shalt not commit murder?'

The problem with your question also brings up another anomaly that you chose to ignore; which is that if anyone can feed and clothe themselves, whether religious or not, in the west and without the use of money, we all wanna know how.

Even to grow one's own crops, and to rear sheep for clothing one would have to have the wherewithal to buy all the accouterments necessary for such an enterprise.

riv, do you really want to open that can of worms, and talk about the biblical god, hypocrisy and atheism in the same breath?

Well...yeah!

Originally posted by Laurie

The problem with your question also brings up another anomaly that you chose to ignore; which is that if anyone can feed and clothe themselves, whether religious or not, in the west and without the use of money, we all wanna know how.

Unless Canadian money also has "In God We Trust" printed somewhere, few from the western nation known as Canada are wondering how that can be accomplished.

Originally posted by Laurie

Even to grow one's own crops, and to rear sheep for clothing one would have to have the wherewithal to buy all the accouterments necessary for such an enterprise.

See above.

There are many currencies available in our day and age.
The well-to-do atheist need not use American money for his transactions.

And those of more limited means can, if they can find other like-minded individuals, use a system of barter for what they need.

Remember, Riv's contention is that money bearing "In God We Trust" is hypocritical for the atheist to use, not all monies period.

Originally posted by Laurie

When he met with Abraham outside his tent, and told him that Abraham's geriatric wife would bear a son the following spring. Gen 18:9-10; he had, at that time, just sent off two of his underlings to Sodom, to tell Lot of their plans to blow it off the map. There would have been children, babies and some good honest people dwelling in that city.

Are you certain about this?
Sodom and Gomorrah seem to have been known more for being "vice" cities in the mold of Las Vegas as opposed to more utilitarian locales.

And homosexual.

Meaning there wouldn't have been much procreation because there wasn't much heterosexual baby-producing sex.

They didn't have in-vitro fertilization and other advanced 20th century medical technology available then if I recall correctly.

So, few, if any, babies or children.
And, as if to underscore that point, the Bible makes it a point to have Abraham bargain with God to spare the city if he CAN find good honest people.

Read on past what you referenced to Genesis 18 verse 31 on to the end of that chapter:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there.

And he said, I will NOT destroy it for twenty’s sake.

32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there.

And he said, I will NOT destroy it for ten’s sake.
33 And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2018&version=AKJV

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Are you certain about this?
Sodom and Gomorrah seem to have been known more for being "vice" cities in the mold of Las Vegas as opposed to more utilitarian locales.

I can guarantee you that you will find children and babies, and non gamblers in Las Vegas. I'm demmed sure that would have been the same in Sodom and Gomorrah.

And homosexual.

And your point? Are homosexuals not human beings? Can they not lead good and law abiding lives?

Meaning there wouldn't have been much procreation because there wasn't much heterosexual baby-producing sex.

Nonsense! Are you trying to imply that there were no heterosexuals in those cities? Even one child's death would have been a heinous murder of an innocent.

They didn't have in-vitro fertilization and other advanced 20th century medical technology available then if I recall correctly.

So, few, if any, babies or children.

Absolute rubbish. That unsourced implication is unworthy of debate, and you know it. How desperate can one get over their religious belief that they would have to resort to such a naive premise?[/quote]

And, as if to underscore that point, the Bible makes it a point to have Abraham bargain with God to spare the city if he CAN find good honest people.

So now you're saying that your god has to be cajoled and placated not to commit murder by those whom, according to the bible, he exhorted not to commit murder? He was a capricious, narcissistic, war-mongering sadist.

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

The Angel of Death
My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)

...or this...
where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you. I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)

These were all turf wars, and your god was at the head of them, aiding and abetting it all.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there.

And he said, [b]I will NOT destroy it for twenty’s sake.

32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there.

And he said, I will NOT destroy it for ten’s sake.
33 And the Lord went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/i]
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2018&version=AKJV [/B][/QUOTE]

And this is why i want to talk about the biblical god, hypocrisy and atheism in the same breath.

Excellent debating by all concerned. 👆

Originally posted by Laurie
I can guarantee you that you will find children and babies, and non gamblers in Las Vegas. I'm demmed sure that would have been the same in Sodom and Gomorrah.

Were Sodom and Gomorrah modern American cities with millions of people I might agree with you. Or even Vegas with its hundreds of thousands.

They weren't cities of hundreds of thousands.
They had a fraction of that number of people.

Originally posted by Laurie

Are homosexuals not human beings?
Can they not lead good and law abiding lives?

1. Human beings are capable of great evil.

2. Good and law abiding? The Bible reckons that differently than your average American might:

http://biblehub.com/romans/3-10.htm

3. Reconcile what you're saying with the following:

Genesis 19:4-9

4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 and they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 and said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. 9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
There's also the fact that the only reason why "In God We Trust" appears on the money (or "One Nation, Under God" appears in the Pledge of Allegiance) was because of McCarthyism and the Red Scare of the 1950s. It was all part of an anti-Communist/Athiest (because 'Commies' were 'godless'😉 propaganda campaign. "Real Americans" were red-blooded, God fearing, capitalist Patriots. Socialists, Communists, and other citizens who held more liberal/'progressive' views on social programs and the role of government were godless monsters hell bent on destroying the American way of life. "In God We Trust" is just a Cold War propaganda relic.

http://www.treasury.gov/about/education/Pages/in-god-we-trust.aspx

It dates back to the Civil War era. The spirit of what Delph says remains in tact though. Originally the motto did not appear until a group lobbied for it someone in power decided it was a good idea and pushed for it.

Essentially the motto IN God We Trust was pushed by a religious agenda to put their God front and center because they thought without it we were doomed.

I wouldn't consider an atheist using the money as hypocritical. Just like I wouldn't consider a religious person using a credit card hypocritical because it doesn't have In God We Trust on it.

👆

Just to clarify, I was only speaking on the history of the slogan on paper currency (why it appears on modern dollars), not coinage.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
👆

Just to clarify, I was only speaking on the history of the slogan on paper currency (why it appears on modern dollars), not coinage.

Yeah I don't think In God We Trust should be on our currency personally.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Explain.

Plz, someone make a logical case for why it could possibly be hypocritical. Is the missing axiom that "If you touch something that has a word written on it, you must believe in the concept the word describes"?

👆

Originally posted by NemeBro
I learned what a nonethical issue is in my Ethics class not too long ago.

That feels relevant somehow.

👆

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Word to the wise, Digi can become remarkably touchy when "Hypocrisy" or any variation of that word is used in a post.

Riv and I haven't been anything but respectful to each even while disagreeing, and this is nothing like the sh*t you and I went through. It's not the word hypocrisy I don't like, or even being called one. It's you. I know how much you like trying to identify hypocrisy in my posts - at times in the past to an absurd, borderline creepy extant - but unless you want to get dragged back into our "discussion", I'd advise you to stop with this.

Originally posted by riv6672

I actually enjoy you playing devil's advocate on a new topic. It's an interesting way to approach topics, and something not enough people do. I just don't think there's much devil to be played here. In any case, I'm glad we seem to be in agreement.

Originally posted by Newjak
Cool and good to know.

Yeah I don't think In God We Trust should be on our currency personally.

It really makes no difference to me. The purpose of money is what matters, not the design. It reminds me of this old Dave Chappelle joke where he said that America made an effort to remove Saddam Hussein's face from all of the currency over there so the citizens could spend money without being reminded of their former dictator and living in fear, but they won't do the same thing for Black People in America despite U.S. Dollars looking like Baseball Cards with Slave Owners on them, and that he refused to use any money other than $5 bills and Pennies because they had Abraham Lincoln's face on them.

Along those lines I suppose as not only an Atheist but also a Black Man I have even more 'reasons' not to use money, right? 😆

Originally posted by MF DELPH
It really makes no difference to me. The purpose of money is what matters, not the design. It reminds me of this old Dave Chappelle joke where he said that America made an effort to remove Saddam Hussein's face from all of the currency over there so the citizens could spend money without being reminded of their former dictator and living in fear, but they won't do the same thing for Black People in America despite U.S. Dollars looking like Baseball Cards with Slave Owners on them, and that he refused to use any money other than $5 bills and Pennies because they had Abraham Lincoln's face on them.

Along those lines I suppose as not only an Atheist but also a Black Man I have even more 'reasons' not to use money, right? 😆

Who knew spending money was oppressing black people. I should have been a money-hungry capitalist a long time ago.

#itsajokepeople
#keepObamaoffthecurrency

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not saying don't use the money.

lol, neither am I. I was referencing a joke about not using money based on imagery or slogans on it.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
lol, neither am I. I was referencing a joke about not using money based on imagery or slogans on it.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Unless Canadian money also has "In God We Trust" printed somewhere, few from the western nation known as Canada are wondering how that can be accomplished.

See above.

There are many currencies available in our day and age.
The well-to-do atheist need not use American money for his transactions.

And those of more limited means can, if they can find other like-minded individuals, use a system of barter for what they need.

Remember, Riv's contention is that money bearing "In God We Trust" is hypocritical for the atheist to use, not all monies period.