Originally posted by Skybreaker
It makes it pretty absurd for you to suggest that Palpatine easily immobilizes them with a gesture, and then decides to engage in a lightsaber duel in which, by your reckoning, he needs to fight for his life. He was obviously so far beyond the brothers that he had no need to go all-out in sabers; the only reason why he would want to is if he wanted to end the fight quickly without threat to his person, but if that were his objective [b]he would have just killed them from the outset! [/B]
You do realize he was actively attacking them with that initail Immobilzation right?
They were able to move again when he put his hands down. But were they KO'd? Were they disarmed? So how exactly were they outright defeated already?
In Revival, Maul levitates Kenobi (seemingly casually as well), has him frozen, then puts him down at his own by his own will.
Does that mean Maul was fooling around after that? Does that mean Kenobi was already beaten?
Stop just for a second and think comparatively in the medium we are talking about, and stop pretending this fight was the only time someone has pinned someone else, and proved beyond a doubt the fight was over, just so you can try and pretend you have any basis at all for your initial baseless assertion that the fight lasted as long as "Sidious wanted it to."
Originally posted by Skybreaker
Are you f*cking kidding me? You seriously don't recognize the insurmountable tactical advantage having your enemies pinned helplessly against a wall gives you?
Again depends what he could do from there, considering he was actively holding them there.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
OK, let's take your assertion at face value, and run with it. Sidious initially doesn't take Yoda very seriously, but then Yoda knocks his ass on a chair, and take a look at Palpatine's reaction; he's suddenly very, very afraid. Now, please explain to me where that change in sentiment, that realization that he had severely underestimated his enemy, appears in his fight against the brothers. Just FYI, that was a rhetorical request; you won't be able to find it, because in this case he didn't underestimate his opposition at all.After getting a wake-up call against Yoda, Palpatine does utilize every tool in his disposal to walk out of that chamber alive, including trying to flee. The one time when he clearly does something tactically unwise - laugh while flinging his latest pod down at Yoda - not only did he actually have a rather large tactical advantage, but he was also [b]punished
for his inaction and nearly killed. Afterwards, you can see that he demonstrates palpable fear, and resorts to FL when Yoda again appears. This isn't remotely analogous to his fight with the brothers, as much as you'd like to continue to parrot it. [/B]
LOL You're acting as if Palpatine didn't know Yoda was the most powerful Jedi alive and clearly a threat to him.
You're acting as if Palpatine needed to fight Yoda to realize he may be a threat.
Oh and do you not see the tactical advantage of having your most dangerous opponent knocked out in front of you LOL
Stop using double standards and think for a second. It's clear from the Yoda example that it's IN CHARACTER (do you know what that means?) to act a bit cocky at times. That however doesn't somehow mean he's not trying the rest of the fight. Or that things things can't shift a little once Sabers are out and in play.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
If you're going to appeal to out of universe intent, just consider the ratings difference one would see between Sidious killing the brothers with a gesture, and Sidious engaging the two in a visually entertaining, but ultimately pre-determined lightsaber exchange. You are, either way, clearly desperate when your only path to run to is to speculate about what they "wanted" to show.
Yes your right, IF they actually made it blatantly obvious that Sidious has won any second he wants to win(as was the case with Yoda and Ventress), then yeah the fight would look stupid as hell. And would lose ratings/dvd sales. They've said it straight, it was a "Legitimate" fight, and an Epic Lightsaber battle is what they wanted.
And yet your claiming that is the case, that it was blatantly obvious that the fight was lasting as long as Sidious allowed it. That he could have finished it any second he wanted.
I'm telling you straight, That IF THAT WERE to be made blatantly obvious, it would have been done with nothing to debate like it was with Yoda/Ventress. They could have had the Brothers about to strike at Sidious, but Sidious freezes their strikes (as Yoda does to Ventress). Then they could have kept fighting. Then later in the fight they could have had Sidious draw their weapons into his hands, while he inspects them, and then gives them their weapons back (again as Yoda does to Ventress in the same damn show) and then kept on fighting.
Now THAT would have been Blatant that Sidious ALLOWED the fight to continue as long as he wanted to.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
That's essentially what Palpatine did; he pinned them against the wall, laughed, then let them draw their weapons and try to fight him.
So I guess Maul LET Kenobi get back up ignite his Lightsabers and chop off Opress's arms.
I guess when Opress ragdolled Skywalker and Kenobi smacking them against a wall in "witches of the mist" with their Sabers deignited, yet he didn't attack them again TK, or continue his TK assault, I guess he LET Kenobi and Skywalker get back up to continue the fight.
Have you actually seen any other fights in TCW and Objectively judging how fights in that particular medium work, or are you just coming up with your own assumed s*** based on what YOU THINK you found Obvious in that fight and nothing else.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
Sidious also visibly shows fear for his wellbeing on multiple occasions during his confrontation with Yoda. His face reflects such a struggle exactly [b]once during his duel with Maul.[/B]
Since I'm not arguing the Brothers were anywhere close to the challenge Yoda was, I fail to see why you are bringing up pointless and irrelevant s***.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
You and I obviously have different definitions of "legitimate". They were using real lightsabers and using real moves; this does not suggest that Sidious was fighting against the brothers with the same level of intensity as he was fighting Mace Windu.
If Mace Windu pushed him harder than the brothers, then obviously Sidious would have been forced into a harder fight with Windu.
How exactly does that mean he didn't TRY to defeat the Brothers.
And just so you know Maul was able to engage Windu and Secura so clearly is capable of putting up a fight against Windu. Probably a similar level of fight he put up against Sidious, but without all the easy Force ragdolling.
And it was actually the Supervising Director who called the fight a "Legitimate One." Not me.
So again you're bringing up irrelevant points and ignoring any ACTUAL PROOF.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
Your curious logic tells us that Palpatine decided to go all-out against the brothers despite obviously not needing to, which suggests that he wanted to end the fight quickly, but decided not to kill them when he could have with a wrist flick at the start of the fight. It has been explained time and time again to you that this doesn't make any f*cking sense, and you've done absolutely nothing to defend it, incongruous analogies to Yoda notwithstanding.
It's been explained to me many times through half ass speculations. It has not however been proved to me.
The fact that the Supervising Director, specifically credited even Opress for the fight he put up against Sidious however, is CLEAR PROOF, that the Maul brothers DID in fact put up a fight.
And this IS PROOF which YOU'VE BEEN TOLD time and time again.
But you know, just ignore ACTUAL PROOF and stick to your own half ass speculations, pretending that your actually making some kind of real argument here.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
Yeah, Palpatine had clearly demonstrated his ability to separate the two of his own volition. It kind of works that way when the disparity in Force power is sufficient to ragdoll the others at your whim.
And he did just that when he got the chance, or was in need to.
When being booted off the balcony he used his Force powers to bring the Brothers down with him.
When being cornered by the Brothers, he KO's Maul with TK.
Your ability to bring up points that actually support my argument and not yours, is frankly Outstanding.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
So Palpatine went all-out in sabers but not in the actual holistic sum of his abilities? Do you realize how absurdly self-contradicting this is?
What he didn't use his other abilities on the Brothers? He didn't KO Maul with TK, or throw the Brothers off the Balcony.
No what I'm saying is that JUST BECAUSE he didn't press an advantage he had with his Tk at the beginning, does not mean he did not TRY the whole rest of the Damn Fight.
And any Objective analogy of other fights in the same medium or of the way we've seen Sidious act cocky and fight in the past would show that.
But let's just forget any Objectivity and Proof from the Supervising Director here in favor of the Way YOU SEE THE FIGHT.