Originally posted by Vorpal RuinIn POD he was ignorant but lets not forget that in the very next book he took on Raska who I would put as an equel to Kas'im in duel blades while she was amped and being aided by two other amped jedi.
If he said he knew everything Kas'im could throw at him, and he didn't, it kinda seems like a lie. A lie born from ignorance is still a lie.
Bane made up for his ignorance against duel blades, they aren't a problem for im
Originally posted by WildBantha88
In POD he was ignorant but lets not forget that in the very next book he took on Raska who I would put as an equel to Kas'im in duel blades while she was amped and being aided by two other amped jedi.Bane made up for his ignorance against duel blades, they aren't a problem for im
I agree with all of this, however, that has no bearing on my previous statement. Bane didn't know all of Kas'im's tricks, just as Kas'im planned. That Bane eventually improved to overcome that is fantastic, but he was still incorrect in his assessment.
Originally posted by Arhael
Like me you started attributing seemenly irrelevant things to strength of will.
Originally posted by Arhael
As I said strength of will cannot be quantified. What's more impressive is subject to opinion.
Originally posted by Arhael
Zannah showed ability to drive people insane, ok. Jaina demonstrated ability to erase memories. I guess I should start claiming that Zannah has no defense against it.
I cannot think of a single instance where Jaina has actually used memory rub, and I have never seen it applied in combat before.
Abeloth effortlessly fooled Luke into thinking she was Mara Jade:
"Luke." He fell silent, regarding her. She searched his eyes for a moment, then the specter of Mara Jade Skywalker said quietly, " Whomever you were with on the Jade Shadow.... it wasn't me."....
Who else could it -
And he knew. Horror and repugnance buffeted Luke. He tried to speak, but nothing came out. Luke forced back the shock and nausea. It would serve nothing now.
"No, it wasn't," he managed finally, his voice raw. "I should have known. I'm sorry."
Her brilliant green eyes were kind. She was beyond annoyance or jealousy. "You couldn't have. She is ancient, and powerful, and dangerous. Very dangerous.
Drives Gavar Khai insane, yet again with ease:
As she spoke, Gavar Khai's gaze dropped to Eliya's cleaved body, and his eyes widened with horror. He brought his blade up and began to slash at the air, pivoting an dodging as though he were in combat. Twice, he cringed as though he had taken a blow. Each time, a deep, anguished sigh gusted from his mouth, and his movements grew less confident and energetic. He began to flinch more quickly and retreat, his motions becoming awkward and slow, his posture stooped and elderly.Finally, Khai simply turned his back on the corpse and, screaming, began to totter away. Had his daughter not flicked a hand in his direction and buckled his knees with a Force blast, he might have kept going until he left the village - and perhaps even the island. As it was, he simply covered his head and lay on the ground wailing - an embarrassment that caused his daughter to render him unconscious with a second Force blast.
She turns an entire group of Sith insane:
Before Taalon could reply, Sith all over the village began to scream and hack at the air. Sometimes they hit Fallanassi, sometimes they hit a tree fern of a fungus-covered hut, occasionally they even hit one another - but most of the time they struck nothing at all. Still, they universally began to cringe and wince as thought taking blows, and within seconds they began to retreat into defensive squares that did nothing at all to diminish their panic.
it is confirmed that this was due to Abeloth's illusions:
It appeared the Sith were being swarmed by translucent green figures. These phantasms had ghastly, distorted faces and thin tentacles lashing from their fingertips, and every couple of seconds one of them would belch a cloud of green vapor into the face of a warrior. The victim would age a dozen years in a heartbeat, the face wrinkling and the posture growing more stooped.But it was the tentacles that were the most gruesome. They would shoot out from the ghost's fingertips to lodge themselves in the eyeballs or nostrils or ears of an intruder. What looked like thumb-sized drops of dark Force energy would pulse down the tentacles, and with each globule, the phantasm seemed to grow a bit more solid and real looking.
As the ghosts grew more opaque, they stopped belching brown fumes and started to spew flame. Before long, there appeared to be wildfires springing up everywhere, driving the Sith toward the edges of the village, screaming and stumbling just as Gavar Khai had done. Within seconds, the fastest Sith had reached a low stone wall that separated part of the village from a thousand-meter plunge to the sea.
When Luke saw the first warrior vault over the wall and drop screaming out of sight, all doubt about the woman before him vanished. No Adept of the White Current would have used her art to kill any being so casually.
Luke immersed himself within the Current again. The scene before him changed from horror to simple madness, with the Fallanassi standing pressed against their huts while the Sith flailed at the empty air and rolled in the moss, trying to smother flames that did not exist. Whether the Adepts were contributing to the illusion or just standing aside while Abeloth alone tormented the intruders, Luke could not say. But it seemed clear to him that the Fallanassi were under Abeloth's influence, or they never would have permitted the White Current to be defiled in this way.
Ship confirms that Abeloth has a stronger will than Jaina:
You're working with Abeloth.I am programmed to obey a strong will. The girl is strong, you are stronger, Sword of the Jedi, but neither of you can break the hold she has on me. She is older and more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Abeloth actively attempted to mind control Luke and Jaina but she failed, they resisted it.
Want some Jaina lightsaber feats to go with that?
"Perhaps they feared Luke Skywalker just that much.
And that was a mistake.
Luke Skywalker was not the Sword of the Jedi. Jaina was, and now the Sith had trapped themselves inside a locked temple with her."
-Page 116 of FOTJ: Apocalypse
"...from killing two Sith in three seconds..."
-Page 166 of FOTJ: Apocalypse
"On most days, that would have been an easy job for two Jedi Masters and Jaina Solo, who, as Sword of the Jedi, had proven time and again that she was the combat equal of anyone in the Order."
-Page 325 of FOTJ: Apocalypse
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I just have to ask... when did Jaina face Abeloth in combat?And could you provide more details and context on her attempting to control Jaina and Luke?
Jaina and Boba Fett traveled to some planet together to blow something up, and Abeloth followed them and there was a fun little fight there.
I wish my books were all digital on my pc instead of being paperback in storage, because ctrl+f would be fantastic to find this info.
Originally posted by Nephthys
All I know is that I distinctly remember trying to find out how the blithering fvck Boba Fett managed to kill an Abeloth avatar and Tahari was there too.
Writers wank Boba. He should be useless in any fight against Force users.
That being said, we can't assume every Abeloth avatar is of equal power, given that she weakens herself the more she has. I think she put more power into the one facing Luke than the one facing a bounty hunter and a trash-tier Jedi.
Originally posted by Nephthys
So basically the main evidence people have brought up for Jaina tanking Zannah's mental attack...... never actually happened? 😆
Hello my wonderful and lovely pieces of pumpkin spice lattes. So after reading through the thread pages(five times) I've decided.
Jaina is one of the greatest duelist in the mythos, strong, ruthless, brutal and efficient, she achieved what powerful duelist/warriors like Kyle Katarn, could not. She is incredibly talented and powerful. The Sword of the jedi, is a fitting name for her. However, her feat of defeating Caedus was incredibly circumstantial as in their first bout he[caedus] was injured by a sniper while Jaina was being helped by Luke Skywalker[it should be noted that after the illusion dropped, jaina "felt the energies of the force leave her"] and in their second battle he lost an arm and still fought on par with his sister. Jaina's win over caedus is impressive, but it was quite circumstantial.
Zannah held her own against her master - a brutal master duelist in his own right, and managed to successfully defeat him, something legendary masters with amplified powers, couldn't do. She demonstrated tactical genius against Bane and should herself to be a true master of form III. Many would argue that she was amplified by a Nexus and they would say that perhaps i am biased as i do not take the argument into account therefore I respect Zannah more, to those people i say. Look at how i wank Jaden, he's been on strong Nexus' and never have I used that argument.
To me, these two are equal as Duelists, with one being a bit above the other(you decide which one it is) However as force users, I have to give Zannah the win, Thanks to her powerful spells & Illusions, Because of this, I deem Darth Zannah, to be the victor. My vote goes for her.
Props to everyone, especially Neph who managed to convince a lot of people to Vote Zannah, props to you all. That was an awesome debate, it was fun reading through your respective arguments have a good one!