Originally posted by Q99
Mutually killed, wasn't it?It can, it just takes awhile.
Dunno, I checked out of that shitty series half-way.
Meh, can it really? I doubt it. And definitely not before Zannah charges up her sorcery to a level far beyond what Jaina can take. Assuming she can't just mind-pwn her off the bat.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Meh, can it really? I doubt it.
Jaina's almost certainly got more mobility than Bane/ is more acrobatic, allowing her to press forward faster. And her mando training means she's a trickier fighter, meaning she's likely to sneak through at some point. She doesn't have to be out-and-out better than Bane to have better ways to pierce defenses.
And definitely not before Zannah charges up her sorcery to a level far beyond what Jaina can take. Assuming she can't just mind-pwn her off the bat.
I really doubt Zannah can do so off the bat. And what about Jaina doing force offense? Her Skywalker-Solo strength in the force should help a lot.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not that overconfident, Jaina is still in the lead thanks to general ignorance and bias. Though I think I'm handily winning the debate portion of the thread.
Originally posted by Q99
Jaina's almost certainly got more mobility than Bane/ is more acrobatic, allowing her to press forward faster. And her mando training means she's a trickier fighter, meaning she's likely to sneak through at some point. She doesn't have to be out-and-out better than Bane to have better ways to pierce defenses.
She's also slower and weaker than Bane, and less powerful in general. So I doubt she could press forward faster, no. And all that would do is push Zannah back, so unless theres a similar environmental trick she can pull it's not going to accomplish much. AND Jaina is less physically powerful than Bane, so she can't wound Zannah in a similar manner if Zannah does fall over or become exposed.
I don't see what her Mando training really gave her to be honest. No really viable "tricks". And you can't really sneak through someones lightsaber defense either.
Originally posted by Q99
I really doubt Zannah can do so off the bat. And what about Jaina doing force offense? Her Skywalker-Solo strength in the force should help a lot.
Maybe, Jaina hasn't got that great mental feats imo. Nor does she have much force offense beyond average-level lightning and throwing large rocks.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not really. You just continue to repeat what you say on every Zannah topic that her defense is unstoppable while every fight besides Set Harth shows differently. And while you can argue they were all circumstantial, the statistics are statistics. Zannah has a very poor track record of defending herself, even despite the hype. Knowing Jaina's expertise, Solo will continue such record. 😉
Statistics aren't everything. Statistically speaking, Sidious has lost most of his lightsaber duels. I guess he sucks, huh. A deeper examination of circumstances and the actual facts about a character are the only thing that determines real worth in a thread. Zannahs defense isn't impenetrable, but Jaina lacks any way to actually penetrate it.
Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
What black-vodoo-magic-looking-sorcery did you use on this thread to get so many replies?
You're guess is as good as mine dude. I thought this thread was gonna bomb lol. Though it could be this Thread has been a Work-in-progress since July/august, even then only a few people knew about it.
Originally posted by ares834
"Average lightning"... Lol it blasted whole through a Vong.
Jaina is a Jedi, I doubt she could attain the levels of rage she had at that time in a standard capacity.
I guess I may have mispoke though. All I meant was that it was no threat to Zannah, who can dodge or defend against it easily enough.
So, I've missed a few posts, but there is disbelief that Jaina Solo would be able to penetrate Darth Zammah's lightsaber defense?
I've read all the novels concerning these two.
Jaina Solo is a top teir Duelest who is 2nd in her era behind only Luke.
She has shatterpoint.
Not sure what else needs to be said on that point.
Zannah's bladework isn't Jaina's problem; her sith sorcery is.
Every time a Zannah debate pops up, the same fallacious arguments tend to come up regarding Zannah's 'impenetrable' defensive prowess.
It's particularly ridiculous to claim that Zannah's defenses can't be broken even by a more skilled contemporary, unless their raw offensive power supersedes Bane's. In reality though, that really isn't how lightsaber duels tend to work. Out of everyone in the mythos, there wasn't a single duelist that could completely wipe the floor with Obi-Wan more consummately than Tyranus. And trust me, he did not have the ferocity of a Darth Maul nor could he replicate the brutal onslaught that Anakin could unleash. He overcame Kenobi's defenses through greater skill and bladework, and it's foolishness to think that the case is any different with Zannah. We saw from the second half of her battle with Bane that her technique could be effectively countered by greater technical proficiency, unorthodoxy, and precision. And it's silly to have thought otherwise in the first place. Soresu is a fighting form, not a durasteel wall.
Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
So, I've missed a few posts, but there is disbelief that Jaina Solo would be able to penetrate Darth Zammah's lightsaber defense?I've read all the novels concerning these two.
Jaina Solo is a top teir Duelest who is 2nd in her era behind only Luke.
She has shatterpoint.
Not sure what else needs to be said on that point.
Zannah's bladework isn't Jaina's problem; her sith sorcery is.
Has Jaina actually used Shatterpoint in a duel though?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Every time a Zannah debate pops up, the same fallacious arguments tend to come up regarding Zannah's 'impenetrable' defensive prowess.It's particularly ridiculous to claim that Zannah's defenses can't be broken even by a more skilled contemporary, unless their raw offensive power supersedes Bane's. In reality though, that really isn't how lightsaber duels tend to work. Out of everyone in the mythos, there wasn't a single duelist that could completely wipe the floor with Obi-Wan more consummately than Tyranus. And trust me, he did not have the ferocity of a Darth Maul nor could he replicate the brutal onslaught that Anakin could unleash. He overcame Kenobi's defenses through greater skill and bladework, and it's foolishness to think that the case is any different with Zannah. We saw from the second half of her battle with Bane that her technique could be effectively countered by greater technical proficiency, unorthodoxy, and precision. And it's foolishness to have thought otherwise in the first place. Soresu is a fighting form, not a durasteel wall.
Zannah's defensive style does largely imitate a wall though. 😬
I'm unsure if I've actually said that you need more raw offense than Bane to get through her defense. All I've pointed out is that there's seemingly no way for Jaina to get passed Zannah's defense and asked if the people supporting Jaina can actually make an argument for it. Just stating "skill" isn't enough. Jaina is NOT a superior duelist to Bane however. She will not accomplish what he couldn't without environmental aid. She hasn't even been established as the better swordsman, people are just assuming Zannah sucks as usual.
And no, Zannah's technique was not "effectively countered". As I've established time and again, Bane was not overpowering or getting through her defense. Nor was he relying on technical proficiency or accuracy. Before that point he unleashed a devastating, complex series of attacks on Zannah which she dealt with without issue. The only thing pushing her back was his constant repositioning and unpredictable pattern of attacks that made her slowly retreat. Could Jaina replicate this? Maybe. But what would it accomplish exactly? By itself it doesn't beat her.
Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
If there was a shatterpoint in Zannah's defense, Jaina would see it. It's innate.
All Jedi can use Shatterpoint. It's innate. Just not to the degree of actually making use of it in combat. The only thing Jaina has done is shatter some stationary objects, not seen through an opponents defense. As far as I know, depsite being taught the technique before fighting him, she wasn't able to use it against Caedus in their duel. Or against anyone else since.