Strongest Female Jedi Tournament: Round 1 Battle 19. Darth Zannah Vs Jaina Solo

Originally posted by Nephthys
Zannah's defensive style does largely imitate a wall though. 😬

I'm unsure if I've actually said that you need more raw offense than Bane to get through her defense. All I've pointed out is that there's seemingly no way for Jaina to get passed Zannah's defense and asked if the people supporting Jaina can actually make an argument for it. Jaina is NOT a superior duelist to Bane however. She will not accomplish what he couldn't without environmental aid. She hasn't even been established as a better swordsman, people are just assuming Zannah sucks as usual.

And no, Zannah's technique was not "effectively countered". As I've established time and again, Bane was not overpowering or getting through her defense. Nor was he relying on technical proficiency or accuracy. Before that point he unleashed a devastating, complex series of attacks on Zannah which she dealt with without issue. The only thing pushing her back was his constant repositioning and unpredictable pattern of attacks that made her slowly retreat. Could Jaina replicate this? Maybe. But what would it accomplish exactly?

I saw your post about general ignorance and bias earlier, and wow, the irony was great here. I love it.

Have fun with your show 😄

I'm unsure if I've actually said that you need more raw offense than Bane to get through her defense.

You have.

etc etc etc

I was criticizing a general line of thinking more than the current debate.

I am quite surprised the vote isn't at least closer, I'll note. I expected more support for the Sith lord who did beat Bane.

People are reaching the boiling point of the Zannah worship, apparently. Also, Jaina's really no joke--Perhaps even the strongest Jedi of her day after Luke left the Order, rivaled only by figures like Kyp Durron.

Alright, so In order to spice things up. I'm adding some that will make things interesting. Up until this moment, i have not voted in any of my tournament battles, however as of now, I, The OP will decide on a concluding argument and My vote shall go towards the character that the argument supports. In each round, I will wait for arguments that are well presented and logical and not just vote for people who I consider to be superior.

That said, My vote will not decide the victor, but it will support that character.

This will continue from this Round and into the next ones. This is for fun and makes for a pretty interesting side objective imo. Happy debating and Good luck

Jaina wins solidly, you know how many Soresu masters were in the NJO? like seriously? and she was better than literally all of them bar Luke.

She beat a Vong Warmaster as a CRIPPLE, like seriously wut?

Oh and if you want to talk about mind games, Jaina has faced the Dark Temple with just a migraine, faced ABELOTH who had like reaper indoctrination levels of mind****ery.

Jaina was such a master duelist that both Kyp and Kyle admitted that she knew everything they did and more.

You know what she will do? she'll see that nice long handle of Zannah's and beat the leaving crap out of it.

Zannah gets an injury in on Jaina? no worries she has a near instantaneous healing trance.

People need to realize that Caedus was way more powerful than Bane ever was, he was confirmed to be much more powerful than Vader and Bane is not on Vader's level, no matter how much wank you want to throw at Dessel's way.

Seriously it would take two pages to list Jaina's feats but Soresu is not going to get in her way by any means, Soresu was nearly as run of the mill in the NJO as Shii-Cho and Niman were in the old order.

In-fact I am pretty sure that Kyle said Soresu was antiquated and he was the battle master(whom by the way Caedus TK stomped along with his Jedi pals) of the Jedi Order.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Jaina wins solidly, you know how many Soresu masters were in the NJO?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh and if you want to talk about mind games, Jaina has faced the Dark Temple with just a migraine, faced ABELOTH who had like reaper indoctrination levels of mind****ery.

Walking up to the Dark Temple without collapsing or going insane is not nearly good enough to suggest she'd cope with Zannah's illusions...

Originally posted by AncientPower
Seriously it would take two pages to list Jaina's feats but Soresu is not going to get in her way by any means, Soresu was nearly as run of the mill in the NJO as Shii-Cho and Niman were in the old order.

In-fact I am pretty sure that Kyle said Soresu was antiquated and he was the battle master(whom by the way Caedus TK stomped along with his Jedi pals) of the Jedi Order.

"Antiquated" means outdated, suggesting that it is not widely practiced, and would be more akin to what Makashi was for the old order.

Kyle Katarn said it was, not the entire order. I will list out users of Soresu and/or it's evolved Form V variant Shien:

Kyle Katarn
Saba Sebatyne
Luke Skywalker
Darth Caedus
Anakin Solo
Tionne Solusar
Kyp Durron

I can name others but keep in mind the old forms were merged with the new ones eventually, so whilst many are excellent defensive fighters, Soresu nor Shien may be the source of this.

But regardless defensive lightsaber combat was seen as the staple of the NJO due to the number of wars being fought.

Jaina Solo herself was seen as wielding Form V combat described by Caedus as: 'conservative, brutal, ruthless, designed to deal damage without suffering any in return.'

But moving on... let us not forget that Jaina can even beat Zannah at her own game... stealth.

Jaina was very well skilled in the arts of infiltration and could even shut down her connection so as to be invisible to Force Sense techniques and even Force Bonds, rendering any of Zannah's pre-cog abilities useless.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
People are reaching the boiling point of the Zannah worship, apparently. Also, Jaina's really no joke--Perhaps even the strongest Jedi of her day after Luke left the Order, rivaled only by figures like Kyp Durron.

I amused how people assume that Jaina is not going to penetrate Zannah's defense because Bane couldn't as if he is somehow superior to Jaina. What's even more hilarious is that Bane did disarm her in a few swift moves anyway.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
People are reaching the boiling point of the Zannah worship, apparently. Also, Jaina's really no joke--Perhaps even the strongest Jedi of her day after Luke left the Order, rivaled only by figures like Kyp Durron.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Jaina wins solidly, you know how many Soresu masters were in the NJO? like seriously? and she was better than literally all of them bar Luke.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kyle Katarn said it was, not the entire order. I will list out users of Soresu and/or it's evolved Form V variant Shien:

Kyle Katarn
Saba Sebatyne
Luke Skywalker
Darth Caedus
Anakin Solo
Tionne Solusar
Kyp Durron

Don't give a shit about Shien. Who are the actual Soresu masters and what does that mean anyway? Just because Jaina was supposedly better than the Soresu masters in the NJO (which is wrong, since she was only noted as equal to any of them) doesn't mean she'd beat Zannah. Lol at putting Anakin and Jacen on the list though, since she was explicitly inferior to both while they were alive.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh and if you want to talk about mind games, Jaina has faced the Dark Temple with just a migraine, faced ABELOTH who had like reaper indoctrination levels of mind****ery.

So has Cipher 9 and Boba Fett. It has nothing to do with Jaina's force defenses or mind abilities.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Jaina was such a master duelist that both Kyp and Kyle admitted that she knew everything they did and more.

And Zannah wasn't a master duelist?

Originally posted by AncientPower
You know what she will do? she'll see that nice long handle of Zannah's and beat the leaving crap out of it.

No she won't. Bane is a far more intelligent duelist than Jaina and he never tried it. No-one has ever even attempted to go for Zannah's hilt.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Zannah gets an injury in on Jaina? no worries she has a near instantaneous healing trance.

I think you got this the wrong way around. 😉

Originally posted by AncientPower
People need to realize that Caedus was way more powerful than Bane ever was, he was confirmed to be much more powerful than Vader and Bane is not on Vader's level, no matter how much wank you want to throw at Dessel's way.

No and no. Caedus isn't confirmed as much more powerful than Bane or Vader. He was said to have become more powerful than Vader on the non-canon blurb of a book. It's irrelevant.

Also I don't really understand your point. Since Caedus was also way more powerful than Jaina ever was as well. 😬

Originally posted by AncientPower
Seriously it would take two pages to list Jaina's feats but Soresu is not going to get in her way by any means, Soresu was nearly as run of the mill in the NJO as Shii-Cho and Niman were in the old order.

In-fact I am pretty sure that Kyle said Soresu was antiquated and he was the battle master(whom by the way Caedus TK stomped along with his Jedi pals) of the Jedi Order.

That's nice.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I can name others but keep in mind the old forms were merged with the new ones eventually, so whilst many are excellent defensive fighters, Soresu nor Shien may be the source of this.

But regardless defensive lightsaber combat was seen as the staple of the NJO due to the number of wars being fought.

Jaina Solo herself was seen as wielding Form V combat described by Caedus as: 'conservative, brutal, ruthless, designed to deal damage without suffering any in return.'

None of this means anything. Soresu was popular in the PT so any PT master can get through Zannah's defense? WTF? This issue isn't whether or not Jaina is knowledgable on Soresu, it's whether Jaina possesses the ability to penetrate Zannah's defense. A faster, stronger, more powerful and overall better duelist like Bane couldn't get through Zannah's defense straight up. And he knew Zannah's style inside and out since he freaking taught it to her. 😬

Originally posted by AncientPower
But moving on... let us not forget that Jaina can even beat Zannah at her own game... stealth.

Jaina was very well skilled in the arts of infiltration and could even shut down her connection so as to be invisible to Force Sense techniques and even Force Bonds, rendering any of Zannah's pre-cog abilities useless.

So can Zannah.

Originally posted by Arhael
I amused how people assume that Jaina is not going to penetrate Zannah's defense because Bane couldn't as if he is somehow superior to Jaina. What's even more hilarious is that Bane did disarm her in a few swift moves anyway.

Bane is superior to Jaina. And Bane disarmed an apprentice Zannah. I'm sure if I looked I could find Jaina getting shat on as a padawan as well. It's irrelevant to her skills at her best.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane is superior to Jaina. And Bane disarmed an apprentice Zannah. I'm sure if I looked I could find Jaina getting shat on as a padawan as well. It's irrelevant to her skills at her best.

Bane is superior to Jaina - is your assumption, not a fact, so I don't have to agree.

Bane disarmed Zannah in their final fight. Oh yes, she was still an apprentice, until she killed him, right?

It's not an assumption, it's a highly established position with lots of evidence behind it.

I misunderstood what you were referencing. Bane disarmed Zannah in that fight after she was wounded and while much of her power was fueling the tentacles. Don't act as if Bane easily got through Zannah's full defenses.

Hey Neph, who you got for Bane vs The Ones? We can take away Orbalisk if it's unfair

Which One? 😛

Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]It's not an assumption, it's a highly established position with lots of evidence behind it.

I misunderstood what you were referencing. Bane disarmed Zannah in that fight after she was wounded and while much of her power was fueling the tentacles. Don't act as if Bane easily got through Zannah's full defenses.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kyle Katarn said it was, not the entire order. I will list out users of Soresu and/or it's evolved Form V variant Shien:

Kyle Katarn
Saba Sebatyne
Luke Skywalker
Darth Caedus
Anakin Solo
Tionne Solusar
Kyp Durron

Originally posted by AncientPower
But regardless defensive lightsaber combat was seen as the staple of the NJO due to the number of wars being fought.

Originally posted by AncientPower
But moving on... let us not forget that Jaina can even beat Zannah at her own game... stealth. Jaina was very well skilled in the arts of infiltration and could even shut down her connection so as to be invisible to Force Sense techniques and even Force Bonds, rendering any of Zannah's pre-cog abilities useless.

You also didn't respond to a fairly big point. Jaina's mental fortitude. Because fighting Abeloth and walking up to the Dark Temple without losing her shit are not proof by any means that she'd be able to overcome Zannah's illusions. And if there's no proof she'd overcome them, that's where she'd fall...

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's why Katarn called Form III antiquated and why most duels in that era ended up with the winner being injured as well?

Going with Zannah after a long consideration. It would be a really close fight though. The gap between votes on both sides is ridiculous.