Second Place Sith Lord Battle #3: Darth Caedus vs Vitiate

Started by Fated Xtasy8 pages

Originally posted by Sinious
and you have quote for this?

Vitiate almost never left Dromund Kaas so underrating his feats due to the nexus of that planet doesn't really make sense especially when the author never said anything about him being amped.

And he was weakened cause he tried to pull off possibly the hardest ritual ever and failed. Scourge's entire plan was built on this idea and nothing hints that he reached his full power back before the fight.

Nothing hints at it Sinny, but he was on a Nexus, that's all the proof we need tbh 😬

Originally posted by Nargaroth
My point was that his feats in that instance were neutral actually, because he was both amped, which is self-evident, and you not liking it I'm afraid doesn't change that fact, and weakened, which I never denied, so no, I wasn't lowballing him (at least not for how he performed during that fight).

Do you have any evidence to support the idea that the amp completely offset his weakened state?

Originally posted by Nargaroth
My point was that his feats in that instance were neutral actually, because he was both amped, which is self-evident, and you not liking it I'm afraid doesn't change that fact, and weakened, which I never denied, so no, I wasn't lowballing him (at least not for how he performed during that fight).

I agree, however, that he didn't prepare for that fight, and I actually think that he lost because he underestimated Hot. After all, I don't think he'd take that much seriously an opponent he had already defeated when supported by other Jedi.

Nexus argument is another thing. My problem with it is when people claim he wouldn't be able to achieve what he can on Kaas.

But again, the main thing there is him being weakened. Act 2 ending HoT and act 3 ending HoT don't have THAT much power gap and we can see how he fares against the Emperor when he isn't weakened.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Nothing hints at it Sinny, but he was on a Nexus, that's all the proof we need tbh 😬

No one's denying that buddy, but how much does the nexus effect his powers are unknown and I doubt it makes much difference if any.

Originally posted by ares834
Do you have any evidence to support the idea that the amp completely offset his weakened state?

Conclusive? Probably not, but he wasn't just on Kaas, he was in the Dark Temple, which was powerful enough to drive a thousand slaves mad, and was called by Scourge a place of "vast dark power". It's very hard to imagine that he would be weakened (at least by a lot) even after receiving such an amp.

Originally posted by Sinious
Nexus argument is another thing. My problem with it is when people claim he wouldn't be able to achieve what he can on Kaas.

But again, the main thing there is him being weakened. Act 2 ending HoT and act 3 ending HoT don't have THAT much power gap and we can see how he fares against the Emperor when he isn't weakened.

That's because a Nexus boosts a darksider's power, and that's why amped feats are generally not to be considered. At best, one could include feats that any Force user labelled as very powerful could do, like his Barrier showing against T3, or his feats against other darksiders who would also be amped, like Scourge.

Against the strike team, he most likely had preparation. There is no conclusive proof of that, but considering that he had all the time in the world to prepare while Hot was fighting Scourge, this seems very likely to me.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Against the strike team, he most likely had preparation. There is no conclusive proof of that, but considering that he had all the time in the world to prepare while Hot was fighting Scourge, this seems very likely to me.
And again, almost every big fight involved prep if you approach them with this logic.
Originally posted by Nargaroth
Conclusive? Probably not, but he wasn't just on Kaas, he was in the Dark Temple, which was powerful enough to drive a thousand slaves mad, and was called by Scourge a place of "vast dark power". It's very hard to imagine that he would be weakened (at least by a lot) even after receiving such an amp.

It's very easily actually. Considering the vast discrepancy of power he displays at the end of Act 2 (which doesn't take place on Kaas) and the end of Act 3.

Originally posted by ares834
It's very easily actually. Considering the vast discrepancy of power he displays at the end of Act 2 (which doesn't take place on Kaas) and the end of Act 3.

👆

Originally posted by ares834
He was most definitely weakened. That was kinda the whole point. Beyond that, the next expansion makes it clear that nobody during the TOR era can defeat a full powered Vitiate.

👆

I don't think it's close, either.

Good thing Caedus isn't part of the TOR era

heh, which is why I specified that. TBH, I'm not sure who would win.

He who is far greater than even the Revanchrist shall prevail.

I do like how Ant made this Revan Vitiate. Since the full strength Sith Emperor from Swtor is positively godlike.

Lol@Caedus having a chance.

Without prep, Revan!Vitiate loses after a difficult fight. Peak!Vitiate, in turn, takes it with moderate difficulty imo.

Peak=prepped? Or SWTOR vitiate?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Peak=prepped? Or SWTOR vitiate?

Thats what I've wanted to ask too.

Full powered Vitiate dominates very powerful strike teams. Prepped Vitiate one-shots dark councils. There is a difference.

If Caedus can absorb firepower capable of destroying entire buildings with his bare hands, then he can most definitely handle anything Vitiate throws at him. Vitiate is an immense powerhouse but if his opponent can handle his powers and force a duel on him, he's SOL.

Caedus isn't getting mind-****ed by anyone.

I should probably bring up the fact that Caedus has some of the best shatterpoint feats in the lore.

His Telekinesis feats include rag-dolling Kyle Katarn and his allies with barely any movement. He also Force Waved Jaina whilst in a severely injured state and when you consider Jaina has tanked all kinds of crap with Tutaminis, this is damn impressive.

He has ignored a lightsaber through the stomach, loss of his fore-arm and more.

He has shown ability to cut others off from the Force and easily restore that connection repeatedly, with ease.

He has lightsaber feats superior to basically everyone vs Luke Skywalker, y'know the best duelist of all time.

He is confirmed to be 'much more powerful' than Darth Vader.

He has shown ability to battle meld seventeen Jedi simultaneously and act as a hive-mind, something that only the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, Luke Skywalker, has been able to surpass.

In-fact it is stated that the only person in the entire New Jedi Order that could defeat him was.... you guessed it, Luke Skywalker.

His farsight and precognition abilities are extreme, being able to set the parameter of the visions he has had and thus made them extremely accurate.

His feats with Force Body were exceptional, being able to use the Force in magnitudes not safe for his body, essentially over-loading it and carry on anyway.

Want to talk about illusions? his were nigh indistinguishable from reality, he used the minds of others to choose what they saw and they were so accurate it nearly fooled Luke, who was an unrivaled master of Mind Trick.

His ability to use Lightning was frightening indeed, causing his victims to simply be unidentifiable, charred beyond recognition, he had significant accuracy with his lightning as well, he could paralyze Jedi Masters with it, despite their use of a lightsaber at times.

He was also expert at cutting himself off from the Force to 'the last string', simply to avoid the senses of others.

With a lightsaber he was unrivaled beyond Luke himself as stated earlier, he has the best dueling feats against prime Luke.

Even Jaina was unable to take him on for long and she was considered a master combatant in not just sabers but pretty much every realm of fighting herself. She only killed him because he was almost completely focused on saving his daughter from the Imperial Nano virus.

Force Choking multiple Jedi at once should probably be brought up here as well.

His Speed feats are also ludicrous just to make that clear.

he has Tutaminis feats against the likes of Luke and weaponry meant to level blocks of buildings.

In sabers: Caedus roflstomps Vitiate.

In Force: Close but Caedus takes a slight edge.

Over-all: Caedus wins.

Maybe it's just because the balance of these forums rest on my opposing Neph wherever he goes, but I find Vitiate to be heavily overhyped and overrated, and his fanboys to be paranoid and delusional. Caedus wins, because he has good combat feats that do not occur while prepped in one of the most powerful nexuses in the galaxy.

I don't rule out the possibility of Vitiate winning, but he won't be mind-haxxing Caedus.