His (Dooku) own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head.---Source : Return of the Sith Novel
Juyo (and Vaapad) can produce more kinetic power than Djem So.
Juyo employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Djem So.---Source : Jedi vs. Sith - The Essential Guide to the Force
Originally posted by Marco1907
Juyo (and Vaapad) can produce more kinetic power than Djem So.
"head to head"........
Makashi is a pure fencing style. And the best fencing styles don't concentrate on brute strength, and doesn't attempt to block with power strikes. Check out S1E3 of Game Of Thrones. They'll teach you that. It's all about quick, precision thrusts.
"especially while fending off a second attacker"
Dooku's not facing a second attacker here when we are talking about Dooku vs Maul or Dooku vs Savage.
However both those points were thrown out of the window when we saw Dooku stalemate Anakin+Kenobi in TCW Season 6.
Plus both those points ignore how talented Dooku is in combining Tk/Fl attacks mid battle with Saber attacks. And Dooku's force powers are greater than either Maul or Opress's.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Here is the quote says why Dooku get ass kicked ;.
Except Dooku never got his ass kicked at that point in the fight. In fact he went onto smacking the wind out of Skywalker flooring him for a decent amount of time. How was he able to do that if he's weak to Skywalker's form? Why wasn't Skywalker kicking Dooku's ass at that point.
Not to mention again, TCWS6 Dooku stalemated both Anakin and Kenobi in Sabers. So clearly Dooku isn't weak to Skywalker's form. Otherwise he would have got his ass kicked in S6.
Honestly I could kill Stover for putting that absolutely pointless line in the ROTS Novel.
I don't know, I think that is why TCW showed that Dooku always had trouble with Anakin while he doesn't have any trouble with Obi-Wan.
TCW is very consistent in new canon universe, I really like how they showed characters weaknessess and advantages, while Dooku can't deal with Anakin's and Savage's kinetic power, while Obi-Wan and Maul easily can. And clearly Maul, Savage and Anakin doesn't have sword mastery to beat Obi-Wan that easy as Dooku did always or Dooku is fighting against 3 nightsister while blind that is something Maul couldn't do.
Comparing lightsaber and fighting styles are much better and logical than putting it emotional issues, especially since Obi-Wan was hindered as Anakin in mustafar duel.
^ Dooku always had trouble with Anakin in TCW but always held his own, never got his ass kicked, and always seemed to have the edge when Force powers came into play.
Just goes to show, Dooku's not simply losing to someone if they have kinetic energy, or if they are really strong.
He can always go on the defensive, give ground and rely on his mid-battle physical or tk or fl attacks.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Here is the quote says why Dooku get ass kicked ;And Soresu has no kinetic power. That is why Obi-Wan always fails against Dooku.
😂 Yeah, if you have zero knowledge about Star Wars, then don't you ever **** with me.
I can't even continue to argue with some guy who thinks ; [B]Maul's fighting style = Obi-Wan's fighting style
This is beyond dumb. [/B]
The quote says it doesn't have the Kinetic Energy to meet someone head to head...except that's not Dooku's style at all, Makashi is for deflecting blows. Also, this is pretty much n-canon because we ****ing see Dooku deflecting Skywalker and Kenobi's blows with one hand in ROTS.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
Am I missing something here? Dooku should be able to solo. Dooku gave Yoda a respectable fight; Maul was put on his ass by Sidious like a little *****. And it's not as if this duo has the same synergy as Anakin+Obi Wan, or that Maul is remotely as powerful as Skywalker circa RotS.
Maul puts up a better fight than Jedi council did.
Source ; Dave Filoni - supervising director of TCW
Dave Filoni : He puts up a better fight than jedi council did.
Link : www.starwars.com/video/wrath-of-the-sith
Problem ? 😎
Maul should win via kinetic and physical advantages against Dooku, I mean he kicked Sidious and kicked Aayla while fighting with Mace Windu, Dooku can't escape from Maul's kicks nor his kinetic strength ; Juyo.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Maul puts up a better fight than Jedi council did.
So what? 😕
Maul should win via kinetic and physical advantages against Dooku,
You mean the same way General Grievous routinely tools and makes Dooku his *****?
I mean he kicked Sidious
LOL
and kicked Aayla while fighting with Mace Windu,
😆
Dooku can't escape from Maul's kicks nor his kinetic strength ; Juyo.
You act as though the fact that Dooku could not handle a peak performance from The Chosen One means that he's immediately helpless whenever a guy in his 20s with a lightsaber shows up at his door, as though he weren't consistently capable of manhandling General Grievous, and as though he didn't regularly best Mace Windu in one on one duels during his time in the Order. And it's not as though Dooku, a legendary dueling master who obsessively sparred against anyone, hadn't ever developed a defense against juyo, even though he was close friends and sparring partners with Mace Windu.
Dooku has given Master Yoda a good fight; Maul would not be a challenge for him at all, kicks or no.
Do you ever considered that Yoda was holding back ? If not, he should able to force push Dooku just like he did to Sidious in RotS.
And Grievous is no where near physically strong as Maul in official canon. Otherwise that would be stupid. Here your proof ;
Not to mention Grievous is not using Juyo, or he doesn't have H2H combat mastery like Maul has, nor he is fast as Maul is.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Do you ever considered that Yoda was holding back ?
Sure he was holding back, but he was nonetheless clearly exerting himself, whereas Sidious didn't really struggle against the brothers at all. Any reasonable viewer of the two confrontations would conclude that Dooku gave Yoda more of a fight than Maul and Opress gave Palpatine.
And Grievous is no where near physically strong as Maul in official canon.
Sure he is. Maul can do more physical damage because he has the Force to augment his own strength and impede Grievous's. Skywalker can do the same, and his raw strength in the Force clearly far outstrips Maul's. So I'd ask you where you got the idea that because Dooku struggles against Skywalker at peak performance, he would struggle against Maul, as though he were immediately rendered helpless by any strong guy in his 20s and not, you know, only the Chosen One.
Not to mention Grievous is not using Juyo
Grievous knows every lightsaber form.
or he doesn't have H2H combat mastery like Maul has
Trivially important, and unsubstantiated. Grievous has engaged in hand to hand combat multiple times, and has a ridiculous list of advantages (feet with repulsorlifts, 360 degree torso and wrist rotation) that would surely outweigh any teras kasi or whatever Maul had, were it not for the latter's command of the Force, which is itself not on the same level as Anakin's.
nor he is fast as Maul is.
Yoda is clearly far faster than Maul, and Dooku could keep up with him. He is also on the same tier as Mace Windu throughout much of TCW. He is firmly above Maul.
Originally posted by ILS
Dooku is a tier 9 duelist. Maul, Kenobi and Ventress are all tier 8s. Maul and Kenobi would most certainly take Dooku in a 2v1 and you'd be kidding yourself to think otherwise.Dooku and Ventress would be able to defeat these two in an extremely hard-fought duel.
Originally posted by Arhael
Dooku is never confirmed to be level 9 duelist. Although it is possible. He didn't look a single bit inferior during fight with Yoda. Him running away might have more to do with the fact that he would tire out quickly due to being less powerful.
He is indirectly confirmed by the plethora of quotes citing him being on par with and in some instances superior to Mace.
Dooku clearly expected to be able to take on Anakin and Obi Wan together, so much that he was willing to toy with them from the start. That he was forced to get serious is a testament to how powerful Skywalker and Kenobi had gotten by RotS, but I don't see how replacing Skywalker with Maul leads to the same results. RotS Anakin >>>> Maul.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
, or that Maul is remotely as powerful as Skywalker circa RotS.
I think Skywalker's Power is pretty variable and ranges anywhere starting from around Maul level to a peak level more on par with the likes of Windu.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
You act as though.... he's immediately helpless whenever a guy in his 20s with a lightsaber shows up at his door,
I LOL'd.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
Dooku has given Master Yoda a good fight; Maul would not be a challenge for him at all, kicks or no.
Agree with the Yoda example. And agree Dooku is solidly above Maul, but I do think Maul would be a challenge for Dooku, and that it wouldn't be an Obi-Wan type stomp. That's how I feel the situation is for now as of TCW. But the gap between them could decrease over time given that Maul is still alive after all 😛
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I think Skywalker's Power is pretty variable and ranges anywhere starting from around Maul level to a peak level more on par with the likes of Windu.
I think Skywalker circa RotS is solidly above Maul, even at his baseline.
Agree with the Yoda example. And agree Dooku is solidly above Maul, but I do think Maul would be a challenge for Dooku, and that it wouldn't be an Obi-Wan type stomp.
I agree that it would be a challenge in the sense that Dooku would have to be on guard and on point, just as anyone would have to be in a lightsaber duel against an opponent of any respectable caliber. I do not think that Maul has any legitimate shot of winning, barring a fluke. And I also disagree with your reference to Obi Wan; by RotS Dooku only overpowered him with the Force; it's not clear that he would "stomp" Kenobi in a lightsaber duel.
But the gap between them could decrease over time given that Maul is still alive after all 😛
This is true. But I'd place bets on Obi Wan being the one to finish him.
Originally posted by Arhael
Dooku is never confirmed to be level 9 duelist. Although it is possible.
My guess- He's probably on the border of an 8 and a 9. So if he fights defensively he can probably stalemate a 9. If he however tries to overpower a 9, he would likely get overpowered himself.
But those levels were made solely for the fight choreography of the movies, and not sure they would hold up very well if applying them to every EU character like Opress, TCW Maul or Ventress.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
I think Skywalker circa RotS is solidly above Maul, even at his baseline.
I dunno, at baseline he did get kick smacked on the floor. Actually according to the novel and script he was already getting stronger by then.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
I agree that it would be a challenge in the sense that Dooku would have to be on guard and on point, just as anyone would have to be in a lightsaber duel against an opponent of any respectable caliber. I do not think that Maul has any legitimate shot of winning, barring a fluke.
I don't think it's a Dooku vs Ventress type situation. I think Maul would be a legitimate threat to Dooku, but a threat Dooku would defeat almost every time.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
And I also disagree with your reference to Obi Wan; by RotS Dooku only overpowered him with the Force; it's not clear that he would "stomp" Kenobi in a lightsaber duel.
I'm talking about the All-Out, not just Sabers.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
This is true. But I'd place bets on Obi Wan being the one to finish him.
Maul and Kenobi will always be portrayed as peers when pit against each other Imho. And they'll likely both be portrayed as having grown more powerful since TCW/ROTS (assuming they do both show up in Rebels).
But yes Kenobi will probably land the killing blow, to keep him as the guy who killed Darth Maul. But it will likely be portrayed as a fight that could have gone either way.- Just my guess.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
RotS Anakin >>>> Maul.
😆 How did you figure this out ? Let me guess, because Anakin speedblitz 4 magnaguard right ? Wait that was Maul. Or he stomped Savage, instead of ragdolled with Obi-Wan ? Wait that was Maul again. Or did he beat Obi-Wan via force attacks ? Wait that was Maul again.
