Originally posted by SiniousYou're confusing me now, Revan is Vader-Level. You didn't say he was in the same Tier as Vader, you said he was on Vader-Level, which means specifically that he is just as strong as him, that would mean, by canon defaults, that Revan has 80% of Sidious power'.
Do you think someone 1/5 of Vader would be able to help Vader stalemate Sidious?
Originally posted by Jmanghan
You're confusing me now, Revan is Vader-Level. You didn't say he was in the same Tier as Vader, you said he was on Vader-Level, which means specifically that he is just as strong as him, that would mean, by canon defaults, that Revan has 80% of Sidious power'.
I never said that. I personally think that Vader would defeat Revan in a really close fight but Revan has a decent chance too unlike Maul. Maul is the first and the weakest of Sidious' apprentices and Vader is the last and strongest one.(Not including DE Luke)
My point was that don't be fooled by those numbers. Sidious would destroy Vader if he wanted to.
Originally posted by Sinious
Well Vader got much more powerful after that. His peak (ROTJ) version would TK Maul's ass.
According to what? Between ANH and RotJ Vader has literally no TK feats of note, everything he's accomplished in that area was prior to that match. It's Maul that became vastly more powerful.
That said, Vader did enormously refine his lightsaber technique between ANH and ESB.
Regardless, it's pretty silly to insinuate Maul and Tyranus aren't a match for Vader.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
According to what? Between ANH and RotJ Vader has literally [b]no TK feats of note, everything he's accomplished in that area was prior to that match. It's Maul that became vastly more powerful.
[/B]
📖 Yeah fairly, thats true.
That said, Vader did enormously refine his lightsaber technique between ANH and ESB.
👆
Regardless, it's pretty silly to insinuate Maul and Tyranus aren't a match for Vader.
Never suggested that.
Maul vs Revan isnt a bad fight fight but the there is an obvious victor here.
Originally posted by ares834
So saying Vader is a better duelist than Maul is trolling...Lol, Maul fanboys.
Pretty much. It's common knowledge that Maul is a better Saber Duelist then Vader, Maul is considered one of the best Duelists in the SW Universe, only a handful of people are ahead of him in that regard, Vader is not one of them. Vader has strength, but he can't keep up with Maul in that regard, I actually think that Revan has a better chance at beating Maul then Vader does.
Lol, some characters get seriously wanked on this site.
Revan is not dominating Maul with the Force, at all, nor is Vader for that matter. Neither of them have telekinetically dominated anyone as powerful as Maul, and typically in order to do that to another Force User the disparity in power needs to be as high as Maul/Dooku > Obi-Wan Kenobi, or Sidious > Maul/Savage or Dooku. To say Vader could dominate Maul with the Force is utter nonsense. At best he'd hurl him with TK now and again, but then we're talking about someone who can manipulate gravity, cushion falls, and guide his body away from obstacles with 100% control, in order to survive blunt impacts anywhere from back-breaking falls to 100 foot drops. If Vader was going to defeat Maul, it'd be through a combination of TK harassment and sabers, which it's plain as day to see wouldn't be an easy task.
Likewise, Revan isn't dominating Maul in the Force. He has inferior TK to Maul, going by feats and even by statements (his best TK accolade/feat is being stated that he might be able to bring down a building, where in contrast Maul was threatening to collapse a barracks with a Force scream when he was only 15, and his power increased monumentally in the decades to come).
Revan can and likely would win with his lightning/storms, maybe drain although that's far less likely. Otherwise Maul is faster, stronger, a more skilled duelist by a tier or so, and about a match for Revan tactically. Again, to say Revan would dominate him is preposterous and only shows how little you've chosen to look into the fight itself.
Originally posted by ILS
Lol, some characters get seriously wanked on this site.Revan is not dominating Maul with the Force, at all, nor is Vader for that matter. Neither of them have telekinetically dominated anyone as powerful as Maul, and typically in order to do that to another Force User the disparity in power needs to be as high as Maul/Dooku > Obi-Wan Kenobi, or Sidious > Maul/Savage or Dooku. To say Vader could dominate Maul with the Force is utter nonsense. At best he'd hurl him with TK now and again, but then we're talking about someone who can manipulate gravity, cushion falls, and guide his body away from obstacles with 100% control, in order to survive blunt impacts anywhere from back-breaking falls to 100 foot drops. If Vader was going to defeat Maul, it'd be through a combination of TK harassment and sabers, which it's plain as day to see wouldn't be an easy task.
Likewise, Revan isn't dominating Maul in the Force. He has inferior TK to Maul, going by feats and even by statements (his best TK accolade/feat is being stated that he might be able to bring down a building, where in contrast Maul was threatening to collapse a barracks with a Force scream when he was only 15, and his power increased monumentally in the decades to come).
Revan can and likely would win with his lightning/storms, maybe drain although that's far less likely. Otherwise Maul is faster, stronger, a more skilled duelist by a tier or so, and about a match for Revan tactically. Again, to say Revan would dominate him is preposterous and only shows how little you've chosen to look into the fight itself.
I agree with every part of that, except the part where you said that Maul is a match for Revan as a tactician. Revan is undoubtedly one of the biggest tactical geniuses in THE ENTIRE SW MYTHOS. Not to say Maul isn't. He took over Deathwatch, was able to coexist with the Jedi and Sith as a renegade with his brother.
I also disagree with the TK thing, Revan in recent times has been able to conduct his use of releasing the force in its purest form. If anything, they're equals. No other character in the mythos besides Revan has been able to do something like that.
I agree with every part of that, except the part where you said that Maul is a match for Revan as a tactician. Revan is undoubtedly one of the biggest tactical geniuses in THE ENTIRE SW MYTHOS. Not to say Maul isn't. He took over Deathwatch, was able to coexist with the Jedi and Sith as a renegade with his brother.I also disagree with the TK thing, Revan in recent times has been able to conduct his use of releasing the force in its purest form. If anything, they're equals. No other character in the mythos besides Revan has been able to do something like that.
The esoteric manner in which Revan uses the Force doesn't necessarily translate to how powerfully he's using it.
Originally posted by ILS
What has Revan done tactically that supersedes Maul? In dueling scenarios, I mean.The esoteric manner in which Revan uses the Force doesn't necessarily translate to how powerfully he's using it.
In a duel, nothing. But that's because he usually never has prep time. Revan losing to Vitiate is not his fault. Karpyshyn is the moron, not Revan, Revan could've easily come up with a much better way to kill the Sith Emperor then the way he did it.
Honestly, how many Lightsaber duels has Revan had to be in where he was on equal ground with his opponent?
He outclassed Malak, and then was outclassed by Vitiate. (On a sidenote, Revan defeated Malak in a pure saber duel.)
Well, Maul doesn't really need prep time to incorporate tactics into his duels. When he was fighting Qui-Gon Jinn on Tattooine, Jinn parried his first attack pretty easily. So, as to avoid being predictable, Maul threw out his first fighting strategy and incorporated an entirely different one within seconds.
During the duel at Theed, Maul was pretty easily manipulating the location of the fight to his liking despite the fact he was fighting two very solid duelists at the same time.
Haven't seen Revan do anything to compare.
I would give Revan the edge simply due to powerscaling and accolades. I know it sounds speculative, but when you're comparing characters over such vast separations in eras, this is what you have to go with. Revan's standout abilities and power level in the KOTOR era clearly surpasses Maul's comparatively diminutive status in his own, even one comparable more saturated with powerful Force users.
More substantively, I do not see Maul possessing anywhere near the ridiculous array of Force abilities Revan has acquired, demonstrating clearly the depth and breadth of his mastery and understanding of the Force, nor do I really see Maul lasting more than 2 seconds against Vitiate.
Originally posted by Skybreaker
I would give Revan the edge simply due to powerscaling and accolades. I know it sounds speculative, but when you're comparing characters over such vast separations in eras, this is what you have to go with. Revan's standout abilities and power level in the KOTOR era clearly surpasses Maul's comparatively diminutive status in his own, even one comparable more saturated with powerful Force users.More substantively, I do not see Maul possessing anywhere near the ridiculous array of Force abilities Revan has acquired, demonstrating clearly the depth and breadth of his mastery and understanding of the Force, nor do I really see Maul lasting more than 2 seconds against Vitiate.
So what you're saying is, because Revan is the best of his time (roughly speaking), and Maul isn't quite the best of his time, that Revan must be better?
So how does this line of thinking not fall apart when you realize that the Rise of the Empire Era in general has more quality and quantity in terms of combatants than Revan's lifetime, and that Maul has been noted by numerous sources to be one of the most highly trained, skilled and lethal Sith of the entire order? (Not just his own generation).
Simply put your line of thinking is flawed. Maul is a better duelist. He has better physical feats. He has better battle tactics. He has better telekinetic showings and statements. Revan has more powerful Force abilities and command of the Force i.e lightning, barrier storms ect ect. So Revan could win if he fully utilised his Force power, or Maul could win in a dueling scenario. It has nothing to do with power scaling or who was the best of their time and all the rest of it. It's like saying Xesh from DotJ era is better than Yoda, because Xesh was the best duelist and Force User of his time whilst Yoda was only second best at his prime. It just doesn't work.