RotS Dooku vs DoE Bane

Originally posted by carthage
Dooku can minimize Bane's superior strength like he did to Savage by either dodging him or utilizing his superior force abilities. Dooku is faster than Bane

Again Dooku is likely more powerful (hurling tons of boulders onto Tholme, ragdolling Ventress, Vos, and Kenobi, hurling down a crane with a gesture, and collapsing caves are all superior feats to anything displayed by DOE Bane.

His lightning is far superior to Dooku's and so is his TK. Hurling boulders and overpowering middling Force users doesn't compare to Bane's feats. Stating that he can't even compete is insanity.

Originally posted by Nephthys
His lightning is far superior to Dooku's and so is his TK.

What are Bane's top TK feats as of DoE?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Stating that he can't even compete is insanity.

Dooku would be severely fvcked if Bane hit him with it.

Destroying the enormous Lehon temple, ragdolling Qordis, lifting a massive stone block held in place by sorcery, mangling people into pulp, casually smashing through a giant blast door with orbs, disintegrating a dozen droids with orbs, disintegrating metal while weakened, smashing a blastdoor off its hinges and across a room while weakened, pulping innards while weakened and other stuff I forgot.

Um... you know this is DoE Bane so no Orbalisk for him. There's also no nexus like Lehon here...

So we can just take the orbalisk amp into account. Bane easily exploding a massive twenty meter wide, thirty meter tall blast door with the Force is still very impressive even accounting for the amp. And so is him disintegrating a dozen technobeasts, when we account for him doing it easily and being able to continue fighting for hours and performing the feat multiple times afterwards. So although it would take him more effort and maybe only disintegrate 10 technobeasts without the orbalisks, that's still a highly impressive feat.

The Lehon temple was freaking enormous and very durable. Even accounting for the nexus which Bane wasn't stated to be drawing on, destroying it is unbelievably impressive and Bane did it at his weakest incarnation.

Plus DoE Bane improved his force mastery from the previous books anyway.

Destroying the enormous Lehon temple,

A temple that happens to be one of the most powerful wellsprings of Dark Side energy in history.

A testament to this is the fact that Kas'im was able to block it--You don't really think the likes of him is a superior force user to Dooku, do you?

ragdolling Qordis,

Ragdolling Kenobi>>

casually smashing through a giant blast door with orbs,

Orbalisk feat.

disintegrating a dozen droids with orbs,

Orbalisk+(Potent)Nexus feat.

disintegrating metal while weakened,

When?

smashing a blastdoor off its hinges and across a room while weakened,

Good, but it's not like that's outside of Dooku's ability.

pulping innards while weakened

Yeah, this is likely his best TK feat.

Spoiler:
And it's still not as good as casually lifting dozens of obelisks.

I'd probably give Dooku the TK edge. Even if Bane did have raw power surpassing Dooku's, his precision and application of it in combat is strikingly inferior. That said, Bane has lightning on him by a mile.

Bane's lightning is not far superior to Dooku's at all. The difference is only slight. Dooku has left Maul's body charred with nothing but a short blast of Lightning that was only intended to torture Maul, not kill him.

In spite of Maul's incredible durability (which is not negated by his indefensible position), Dooku still charred Maul's body and made him scream in pain.

Bane's Lightning by DOE was powerful enough to incinerate mercenaries. Impressive, but Dooku would most likely be able to do the same. Why? It's simple. If Dooku can char Maul's body with torture level Lightning, it is not preposterous to conclude that he would be able to incinerate people that are nowhere near as durable as the Zabrak Sith with lethal Lightning.

In spite of all this, I still regard Bane's Lightning as a tad bit more potent, as the latter disintegrated stone (though it was just a small portion of a wall) while still hindered by drugs. Dooku should still be able to use Tutaminis/Force Deflection on it, considering how easily he deflected his own Lightning.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
A temple that happens to be one of the most powerful wellsprings of Dark Side energy in history.

A testament to this is the fact that Kas'im was able to block it--You don't really think the likes of him is a superior force user to Dooku, do you?

And was like a hundred meters tall and survived turbolaser fire. And this was just Bane in PoD.

Kas'im blocked a small portion of a large Wave. I don't think he's as powerful as Dooku no, but I do think that blocking even that much indicates Kas'im was a very powerful Sith with like, Obi-Wan level power or whatever. It was said that if the wave had hit him it would "shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid."

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Ragdolling Kenobi>>

Maybe, but again, this was just in PoD.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Orbalisk feat.

Orbalisk+(Potent)Nexus feat.

You see, I hate it when you guys just dismiss orbalisk feats out of hand without thought.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
When?

He he escaped prison.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Good, but it's not like that's outside of Dooku's ability.

Yeah, this is likely his best TK feat.

Spoiler:
And it's still not as good as casually lifting dozens of obelisks.

I know. But Bane was weakened by force-inhibiting drugs.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'd probably give Dooku the TK edge. Even if Bane did have raw power surpassing Dooku's, his precision and application of it in combat is strikingly inferior. That said, Bane has lightning on him by a mile.

I guess that's a fair assessment based on what your willing to assess.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Bane's lightning is not far superior to Dooku's at all. The difference is only slight. Dooku has left Maul's body charred with nothing but a short blast of Lightning that was only intended to torture Maul, not kill him.

In spite of Maul's incredible durability (which is not negated by his indefensible position), Dooku still charred Maul's body and made him scream in pain.

Bane's Lightning by DOE was powerful enough to incinerate mercenaries. Impressive, but Dooku would most likely be able to do the same. Why? It's simple. If Dooku can char Maul's body with torture level Lightning, it is not preposterous to conclude that he would be able to incinerate people that are nowhere near as durable as the Zabrak Sith with lethal Lightning.

In spite of all this, I still regard Bane's Lightning as a tad bit more potent, as the latter disintegrated stone (though it was just a small portion of a wall) while still hindered by drugs. Dooku should still be able to use Tutaminis/Force Deflection on it, considering how easily he deflected his own Lightning.

He didn't char Maul, he just made a bunch of smoke and steam. Which is typical of any lightning because of the heat and other effects. It's hardly impressive.

Dooku's lightning has never really impressed me. It gets blocked by Kenobi with ease in AOTC and then Dooku somehow thinks he can take Yoda with it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He didn't char Maul, he just made a bunch of smoke and steam. Which is typical of any lightning because of the heat and other effects. It's hardly impressive.

Except that lightning doesn't automatically work like that. A few examples? Mighella's lethal lightning didn't do anything like that to Maul. Sora Bulq was not left smoking by Dooku's lightning (because the Count was probably holding back even more than he did against Maul). So wasn't Ventress. Vitiate didn't produce those effects on the Jedi strike team (no, I'm not comparing Dooku to the Sith Emperor). There are many other instances of this that I don't remember now, but I think this should be enough.

So no, lightning doesn't necessarily do what you said, and certainly even less often to someone like Maul.

Regardless, my point was that if Dooku can do this to Maul with torture level Lightning, he can incinerate mercenaries, whose durability is laughable compared to Maul's, with killing lightning. That's not difficult.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Except that lightning doesn't automatically work like that. A few examples? Mighella's lethal lightning didn't do anything like that to Maul. Sora Bulq was not left smoking by Dooku's lightning (because the Count was probably holding back even more than he did against Maul). So wasn't Ventress. Vitiate didn't produce those effects on the Jedi strike team (no, I'm not comparing Dooku to the Sith Emperor). There are many other instances of this that I don't remember now, but I think this should be enough.

So no, lightning doesn't necessarily do what you said, and certainly even less often to someone like Maul.

Regardless, my point was that if Dooku can do this to Maul with torture level Lightning (wether it was charring or not), he can incinerate mercenaries, whose durability is laughable compared to Maul's, with killing lightning. That's not difficult.

I apologize for the double post.

Ninja'd by NewGuy01 and Nargaroth, good job guys 👆

What I woud dlike to add is that let's not blow Bane's Lehon TK feat out of proportion.

1. It was performed on a potent force nexus.
2. Kas'im was able to block it anyway, so someone of Dooku's caliber would casually shrug it off.
3. Bane's force push did not bring down the whole temple. It brought down a pillar that supported the temple. Then the domino effect took place. Not to mention the temple was ancient....

Kas'im blocked a small portion of a large Wave. I don't think he's as powerful as Dooku no, but I do think that blocking even that much indicates Kas'im was a very powerful Sith with like, Obi-Wan level power or whatever.

Except that lightning doesn't automatically work like that. A few examples? Mighella's lethal lightning didn't do anything like that to Maul. Sora Bulq was not left smoking by Dooku's lightning (because the Count was probably holding back even more than he did against Maul). So wasn't Ventress. Vitiate didn't produce those effects on the Jedi strike team (no, I'm not comparing Dooku to the Sith Emperor). There are many other instances of this that I don't remember now, but I think this should be enough.

So no, lightning doesn't necessarily do what you said, and certainly even less often to someone like Maul.

Regardless, my point was that if Dooku can do this to Maul with torture level Lightning (wether it was charring or not), he can incinerate mercenaries, whose durability is laughable compared to Maul's, with killing lightning. That's not difficult.

Originally posted by Arhael
Good point that charring indicates nothing. It's down to how it is portrayed in media. But Dooku's lightning is still weak. Best indication is that it can be blocked by others without much effort. That doesn't mean he is less powerful than Bane though.

Two of my examples (Mighella/Bulq) are from the comics. And lol at Dooku's lightning being weak because it can be blocked with a lightsaber. Against Obi-Wan, he evidently wasn't using his full power. Against Obi-Wan and Tiplee, he was firing a short, one handed burst that spread across two lightsabers.

And going by your route, I could easily argue that Sidious' lightning is weak because Luke briefly managed to use Tutaminis on it in ROTJ, and blocking it with the Force would be more difficult than blocking it with a lightsaber. I could also argue that Vitiate's lightning is weak because two Jedi were able to block his FLS (which was performed with more power than what Dooku used in those instances) for a decent time. Not to mention that Savage and Ventress couldn't deflect Dooku's Lightning, and Anakin didn't block it with that much ease, so that amounts to nothing, and it's honestly silly.

Regardless, Dooku also killed four Nightbrothers, who have increased durability and pain resistance by virtue of being Zabraks, with a short burst of lightning. Even using only this feat, his lightning is not weak, or even average.

Ventress did deflect Dooku's lightning actually. And those Nightbrothers weren't shown to be dead, and Zabraks aren't THAT much more durable than humans.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Except that lightning doesn't automatically work like that. A few examples? Mighella's lethal lightning didn't do anything like that to Maul. Sora Bulq was not left smoking by Dooku's lightning (because the Count was probably holding back even more than he did against Maul). So wasn't Ventress. Vitiate didn't produce those effects on the Jedi strike team (no, I'm not comparing Dooku to the Sith Emperor). There are many other instances of this that I don't remember now, but I think this should be enough.

So no, lightning doesn't necessarily do what you said, and certainly even less often to someone like Maul.

Regardless, my point was that if Dooku can do this to Maul with torture level Lightning, he can incinerate mercenaries, whose durability is laughable compared to Maul's, with killing lightning. That's not difficult.

We didn't see Maul or Bulq directly after the examples you mentioned, so you can't know that. Ventress actually was slightly smoking after Dooku hit her with lightning btw, at least in the videos I'm watching. So was Anakin when Dooku captured him in Shadow Warrior. But yes, you're right. Sometimes it's present and sometimes it isn't. It's just a stylistic choice that some make and others don't. As I said, it doesn't mean anything. Theres no actual burns on Maul's body that indicate his flesh being charred, so obviously he wasn't.

And your point is bunk, because it's a hell of a long way from "slightly smoking" to "completely disintegrated". It's utterly nonsensical to think that just because Dooku managed to barely singe a captured Maul, that he can get to Bane's level, despite him hitting people multiple times and not turning them to ash. Don't be ridiculous. 😬

Originally posted by Stigma
Ninja'd by NewGuy01 and Nargaroth, good job guys 👆

What I woud dlike to add is that let's not blow Bane's Lehon TK feat out of proportion.

1. It was performed on a potent force nexus.
2. Kas'im was able to block it anyway, so someone of Dooku's caliber would casually shrug it off.
3. Bane's force push did not bring down the whole temple. [b]It brought down a pillar that supported the temple. Then the domino effect took place. Not to mention the temple was ancient.... [/B]

1. As I said, I accounted for that.

2. Kas'im only got hit by a small part, which was still powerful enough to shatter every bone and liquidate his flesh. And I'm not suggesting that PoD Bane is > Dooku. DoE Bane definitely is though.

3. False. That's just an anti-Bane argument that people made a few years ago. I refuted it and theres no real evidence that this is the case. And now with the new design of the temple in Swtor, it's obviously impossible for a single pillar to bring down a temple that size. As I said, the temple survived a bombardment from a capital ship. It's pretty ****ing tough. And it's age is irrelevant since it was noted to be made of a stone that wasn't cracked or worn by age.

The temple was heavily damaged by the bombardment. Pushing over already broken rock isn't impressive.