Originally posted by Astner
Right. But why should God please you? The Bible teaches that you're a sinner and deserving of hell.
Originally posted by Astner
Well you're not a Christian.
whoa... wait... hold your horses, dude...
"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe."
I Timothy 4:10
the God of the Bible, as was written, is the Savior of ALL people - believers or non-believers...
and also, sinners does NOT deserve hell... EVIL deserves hell... hell was created to punish the evil:
"Then he will say to those at his left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Matthew 25:41
hell (eternal fire) was prepared for satan and his minions... the only time a person will be cast to hell is when he deliberately aligned himself with the devil...
sinners are different from evil people... in fact, Jesus came because of them:
"And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."
Mark 2:17
Originally posted by red g jacks
is not believing in any of that stuff the same as purposely aligning yourself with the devil in your eyes?
not in MY eyes, but in every individual...
have you ever felt this? that you will do something and you know it's wrong, yet you still do it, and felt bad afterwards?
another instance is, you will do something and you know it's wrong, yet you still do it, and felt no remorse about it?
in my opinion, deliberately aligning with the devil is doing something wrong, and being happy about it, no regrets... for example, you stole another man's wife, everybody knows it wrong, not just in God's law but also in man's... it's preventable but you still did it...
yea i can be amoral sometimes. but to me not believing isn't something that is immoral but i do it anyway. if anything i might be wrong but not in a moral sense. it's more like trying to do a math problem and getting it wrong. really there is no transgression there so if god has the same kind of morality that i do then he wouldn't hold it against me for getting a question wrong.
Originally posted by red g jacks
yea i can be amoral sometimes. but to me not believing isn't something that is immoral but i do it anyway. if anything i might be wrong but not in a moral sense. it's more like trying to do a math problem and getting it wrong. really there is no transgression there so if god has the same kind of morality that i do then he wouldn't hold it against me for getting a question wrong.
i was not even talking if you're a believer or not... doing something immoral, and knowing that what you're doing is immoral - that's wrong...
there are things we do intentionally and unintentionally... and it's what you know that counts...
"Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin."
James 4:17
implies that if you did not know, you did not commit sin... you commit sin when you know that what you will do is wrong and you still continue to do it... God does NOT impute sin on what you do not know... and you cannot pretend that you don't know something since He can read minds and hearts... 🙂
Originally posted by dyajeepoh. well that was the question i asked you initially. "do you think not believing is purposely aligning yourself with the devil?"
i was not even talking if you're a believer or not... doing something immoral, and knowing that what you're doing is immoral - that's wrong...
there are things we do intentionally and unintentionally... and it's what you know that counts...yea.. i'm guilty of that."Whoever [b]knows
what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin."
James 4:17implies that if you did not know, you did not commit sin... you commit sin when you know that what you will do is wrong and you still continue to do it... God does NOT impute sin on what you do not know... and you cannot pretend that you don't know something since He can read minds and hearts... 🙂 [/B]
for example i eat meat knowing that i am financially supporting a system that brutalizes animals and makes them suffer yet i don't feel bad because... i don't know really i'm just selfish i guess.
i buy computers and electronics knowing they were probably manufactured by people being exploited in asia, knowing they contain precious metals that were probably mined by people being exploited and abused in africa... and yet i continue without any remorse or intent to change because once again i am selfish.
but i don't think i deserve eternal torture for that. maybe i deserve some punishment but there can be no redemption in suffering eternally and without redemption the entire system seems pointless.
god might as well eliminate the evil souls once and for all. that would make more sense, be more just and more compassionate than torturing something forever for being flawed when pretty much everything is flawed to one extent or another.
Originally posted by red g jacks
for example i eat meat knowing that i am financially supporting a system that brutalizes animals and makes them suffer yet i don't feel bad because... i don't know really i'm just selfish i guess.i buy computers and electronics knowing they were probably manufactured by people being exploited in asia, knowing they contain precious metals that were probably mined by people being exploited and abused in africa... and yet i continue without any remorse or intent to change because once again i am selfish.
your examples are not even considered as sins... here are the examples of the Bible:
"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
Envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Galatians 5:19-21
Originally posted by dyajeepwhat is fornication... ****ing outside marriage? to me that shouldn't be considered a sin. the shit i mentioned is more harmful and more immoral.
your examples are not even considered as sins... here are the examples of the Bible:"Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: [b]adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
Envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like
Galatians 5:19-21 [/B]
Originally posted by Bentleyyea.... except i don't like getting tortured so i'm pretty sure i'd mind.
Again, if you think sin is so small that you're forever going to indulge it, you might as well admit you won't mind staying in hell forever since you're essentially staying there because of sin.
Originally posted by red g jacks
what is fornication... ****ing outside marriage? to me that shouldn't be considered a sin. the shit i mentioned is more harmful and more immoral.
then it's up to you... what i'm saying is what's written in the Bible, and i'm not forcing anyone to believe in it... just saying... 🙂
anyway, fornication is basically the voluntary sexual intercourse between two persons of the opposite sex, where one is or both are unmarried... if we set the Bible aside just for a moment, if you avoid fornication, it's good for you since you'll not have STDs, well if you don't practice safe sex... but morally, it's about a person's fidelity to their spouses... marriage is sacred in the Bible and so is the foundation of the family so fornication is a very grave sin...
Originally posted by riv6672
My philosophy is, i live my life the best i can.
no problem with this so long as what you say "best" is also for the good of yourself and the others... 🙂
Originally posted by red g jacks
yea.... except i don't like getting tortured so i'm pretty sure i'd mind.
Again, you're likely staying in hell because you are still in sin. I'm assuming that if you experience hell you'd be hanging to your old sins as if they were some kind of drug to get you through torture. The torture would be essentially timeless, so you would be perpetrating your dependance on sin eternally and hence keeping yourself in hell.
The fact that you can never get rid of sins that are minimal to you is what keeps you there forever.
No idea if this is canon at all for Church teachings though awesr
Originally posted by Bentleysee, i'm sure this makes sense to you but to me it's pure gibberish. i wouldn't not mind being tortured by satan because i have sinned any more than i would not mind being tortured by isis because i have sinned. it's just a silly thing to say to me.
Again, you're likely staying in hell because you are still in sin. I'm assuming that if you experience hell you'd be hanging to your old sins as if they were some kind of drug to get you through torture. The torture would be essentially timeless, so you would be perpetrating your dependance on sin eternally and hence keeping yourself in hell.The fact that you can never get rid of sins that are minimal to you is what keeps you there forever.
No idea if this is canon at all for Church teachings though awesr
Originally posted by red g jacks
see, i'm sure this makes sense to you but to me it's pure gibberish. i wouldn't not mind being tortured by satan because i have sinned any more than i would not mind being tortured by isis because i have sinned. it's just a silly thing to say to me.
Well, the idea behind my post was to portray how the proportions that might seem skewed -eternity vs some random sins- can be sustained into what would be essentially timeless. Another possibility is that we live hell as in a memory, unable to act on it, but tormented by it all the time.
And I'm not saying that this is true or that I believe on it, that ist entirely beyond the point. This doesn't mean it's a silly thing to say, I happen to be satisfied at the abstract development of the whole thing thank you ahah
This is a religion forum after all.
That said I'd rather not have anyone torturing you for any reason 😛
i'm not really sure what you're saying. maybe i'm misinterpreting your previous post but to me it sounded like you were saying that if satan was torturing me with fire or some shit i would find consolation in the fact that i did a bunch of bad shit when i was alive so i wouldn't mind the torture. i'm saying i would still mind the torture because torture sucks and that's basically the whole point of torture.
Originally posted by red g jacks
i'm not really sure what you're saying. maybe i'm misinterpreting your previous post but to me it sounded like you were saying that if satan was torturing me with fire or some shit i would find consolation in the fact that i did a bunch of bad shit when i was alive so i wouldn't mind the torture. i'm saying i would still mind the torture because torture sucks and that's basically the whole point of torture.
Ok, it's not that you'd find consolation, it's more like everytime you fall into your old habits torture will find a way to keep going. Broken mentally and physically by torture you can only remain in the same hole that you wouldn't be able to escape when you were healthy and in your right mind.
If that makes sense mmm